Jediism and Sithism??

[Skar]

If I can expound on what I think Parker is saying...

100 years ago religions were thought of and thought of themselves as sources of truth.  Absolutes.  Ideas and practices that were "right" as opposed to "wrong."  Nowadays, they are more and more thought of, and even think of themselves, as sources of convenient justification.  

The difference lies not in whether a religion was, in fact, "correct" a hundred years ago but instead lies in how its adherents thought of it.  Were they searching for truth or were they searching for a convenient justification for their already extant beliefs and predilections?

Today, it seems, religions are more widely thought of as a convenient, philosophical social club than a source of absolute truth. I think that is what Parker is trying to say.  If so, he and I are in agreement.

As for mormonism.  According to the thought paradigm I just described, it is certainly a religion rather than a convenient social club.  That's not to say that in mormon dominated areas there aren't people who treat it as said club, there are.  It lies in its stated goals and claimed authority.  Mormons claim divine authority and access to absolute truths.  I find it hard to believe that adherents to Jediism and Sithism claim such.  (at least not with a straight face)

[Parker]

Well said, Skar--that's what I was trying to express.  Thanks for the help.

[Harbinger]

Harbinger, your strawman of setting up "Mormonism" as a "fringe religion" is quite ineffective.

Joseph Smith's intentions from the very beginning were to set up a religious system of belief among the people. His claim was divine mandate. You can find that ridiculous or not, but it is, through and through, a religious ridiculous.

"Jediism" and "Sithism" were not only not set up to be "religions," Are not only *Not* portrayed as religions in the stories (at best, they are philosophies, there is very little religiosity in the teachings), but they were created specifically to be fictitious.

That's what I find absurd. "I'm going to take this pseudo philosophy and make it my religion, never mind that it never claimed to be non-fiction."

Anyone who makes that move has more than a few neurons not firing.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. I read your mention of Tom Cruise, and I thought you were referring to L. Ron Hubbard, rather than George Lucas.
The reason I made the original comment is that many Evangelical Christians (among others) do not consider the LDS church to be a true religion, nor Joseph Smith a true prophet, and are willing to cite mountains of "evidence" that "prove" that he was after fame, power, wealth, women, etc. I was attempting to express the hope that those who have had their Prophet mocked would try not to do the same thing to other religous leaders, whether or not they agree with the teachings of the religion itself.

Thank you, Skar, for helping to clarify the issue. Yes, it does seem that the title "religion" is more often being given to what I have understood to be "philosophy."

In... um... defense (cringe) of the Jediism/Sithism being a religion, in Episode IV there are two references, one made by Han Solo, the other by Grand Moff Tarkin, to the Force being a religion. HOWEVER, if it is a religion, it is so only within the context of the universe George Lucas has created on paper and celluloid. If real-world adherents to what I would call the philosophies of Jediism/Sithism start to manifest Force powers, then I would be willing to entertain the possibility. Else, they are no more than sets of ideals.

And, again, I apologize for any misunderstandings.

[42]

With much trepidation I will chime in on this subject. I don't really see Jediism and Shithism as having everything in place to become a major religion. A popular anthropological theory is that religions evolve from being individualistic, to shamanistic, to communal, to ecclesiastical. I'm not going to bother explain all of those, but major religions are at the ecclesiastical level having full-time clergy and many years of tradition. Jediism and Sithism would be at the opposite end (individualistic) where the religion is mostly composed of individual beliefs and ideals with few group beliefs. Maybe there is someone who runs a Jediism book club who could be considered a shaman, but that seems unlikely.

For Jediism and Sithism to become a serious religious movement there would need to be some big developments. Most religions are based on a belief in the super-natural, not purely on philosophical beliefs. The two intertwine a lot, and there are religions that prefer to focus more on philosophical ideals rather than super-natural beliefs. However, as odd as it may seem, religions with firm basis in super-natural beliefs are often more stable than those that rely primarily on philosophical teachings. Part of this has to do with the functions of religion.

Religion has several functions. On the psychological side, it provides rationale for why things happen in the world or why things are the way they are. It also provides emotional well-being for individual practitioners by giving them a sense of control over the uncontrollable. On the social side, religion gives people a sense of belonging to a group and separating them from other groups. It also creates social order and resolves conflicts between people or groups.

It's in some of those social functions where I see Jediism and Sithism have deficiencies. I'm sure members of the religion find others who share similar beliefs and they probably get together. What I'm not seeing is a specific order developing and a sense of group solidarity. At the moment, there probably aren't a lot of regulations that decide who is and who is not a member of the religion. There probably aren't a lot of rituals or traditions that the members are expected to perform. Mostly there isn't a strong charismatic leader guiding it. If George Lucas doesn't  decide to become the founder of the religion, then it would take another extraordinary individual to make it into. I don't really see that happening without the support of Lucas.

[Parker]

Interesting, thorough post.  Thanks.  And you're right--if any extraordinary individual appeared to try and lead either religion, George Lucas would sue their pants off, most likely.

[The Lost One]

Now that would be an interesting lawsuit. 1st amendment rights vs. Copyrights. Not too many of those cases out there.

Quick, someone proclaim to be the leader of Jediism, inform Mr. Lucas, wait for him to sue (it shouldn't take long unless that whole Battlestar Galactica lawsuit taught him something), pay the lawyers (like me) big bucks, and then the world will hopefully have some interesting legal precedence to insert into the next edition of some first-year lawstudent's textbook.