Games > Role-Playing Games

Tracy Hickman's rant

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42:
Vampire: Masquarade and Call of Cthulu are both examples of mature audiences only. I admit that I don't have a unbiased opinion about either. The only people I know who played Vampire were satan-worshipping drug addicts, really.
Also, parents do nothing to regulate what their kids are playing. Most just go into another room and go to sleep when their kids are playing an RPG. Maybe I'm already an embittered educator, but parents are often the least effective way of regulating media. Most simply are not involved enough in their kids lives to know what they are doing or thinking. If parents actually do something then why do so many high school kids listen to CDs with the explicit lyrics label on them?
From what I've read (interviews and announcements on wizards.com) about the Book of Vile Darkness, the designers really think that gamers think evil is something cool and are trying to market to that attitude. Even though it's labeled for mature audiences, Wizards still plans to make a large selling within the teenage market.

Fellfrosch:
I know a lot of good stats for the video game market, but not RPGs, unfortunately. For example: 85% of video game purchases are mediated by an adult (meaning that an adult buys the game or that a child has an adult with him when he buys the game). Furthermore, 61% of video game players are 21 or older. So you could make a pretty strong case that parents are getting involved with their kids' media and helping to regulate it. On the other hand, you have to remember all the kids who bought GTA3 for their kids (despite the Mature rating and the hitmen and the hookers on the cover) and then complained that it was inappropriate for children. So some of the parents doing the regulating are really stupid.

What I do not know, but would very much like to know, is how involved parents are with RPG purchases. More than that, I want to know how involved they are with RPG playing (since an RPG, unlike a video game, can include anything you want regardless of the books involved). If the parents are making an effort to know what their kids are playing, and to restrict the "vile darkness"-style books that they object to, then I say good for them. The problem I see is that Wizards shipped their magazine to everyone, regardless of age. As a parent who would not allow my twelve-year-old to buy "The Book of Vile Darkness," (assuming I had a twelve-year-old, of course), I would be very upset if Wizards mailed an excerpt of that book directly to my child. If he gets the mail first, I've lost some of my opportunity to regulate that media. It's as if Playboy mailed a few sample pictures to my son and marked them "Attention 12-year-old boy: do not open this letter unless you want to see beautiful naked ladies."

At this point we arrive at a deeper level of media regulation--teach your kids proper morals instead of strict rules, and then in a situation like this they can make their own decisions. I agree with Kilowatt that there is a place for Mature gaming--I can't see myself enjoying an RPG that deals with pedophilia, but that's no reason for me to restrict other intelligent adults from making their own choice. That is why I think that rating systems (when properly applied) are so helpful--they let the individuals regulate their own media and that of their children. If the government or private industry were to enforce a new version of the Comic Code, it would cause more problems than it solved.

Entsuropi:
heh. about the whole parents checkign what their children buy - if they dont do it with films and video games, do you think that they are gonna do it with what look to be textbooks? and remember that children often dont want to share info - i hate it when my parents try to control my every move and purchase.
i do agree with fell about the inappropriateness of sending out excerpts tho.

oh BTW fell. there is a strong argument for the linking of RPGs to tabletop. you play the most evil armies in tabletop. just a thought.

i would like to note here that "evil" is a very nebulous term. a drug dealer - evil. someone who murders that dealer to prevent drugs from getting to their children - evil. murder = evil. see what i mean? if a spy corrupts and subverts the population of a town to allow an invading army to destroy said town, that is also "evil".  if we were to look at it from a certain perspective, all PC's in DnD are responsible for murder, theft, handling of stolen goods, looting the dead, breaking and entering. it all rests upon a certain fact - that heros in fantasy often make their own definition of what is good - just as we all do. i feel that it is good if a person who sexually assaulted and killed young children is executed, but left wing people feel that it is evil.

Kid_Kilowatt:
A few clarifications to add here and there:

1) I have played Vampire The Masquerade and Call of Cthulhu.  I've never worshipped Satan - I don't even like the guy.  I've also never been addicted to any drugs (beyond a casual acquaintance with a little demon called caffeine).  And I never wear my cape in public.  Stereotyping is an ugly thing, and people who stereotype others are all hunch-backed, cross-eyed twits.

2) Regardless of Roy Lichtenstein's motivation, his art represented a concrete reference to comic book art in the realm of "high art".  PBS's use of this reference as evidence of the gradual movement of comic art into the mainstream is entirely justified.  There's also plenty of room for debate as to whether he was pointing out the stupidity of cliche in comic art, or if he in fact loved the idea of cliche and combined the visual cliches of comic books with his training in abstract expressionism to create something thought-provoking.  He talked about having confused comic book ideals with reality as a child, and the affect that had on him later in life.  At best, I would argue that he had a love/hate relationship with popular culture, a la Andy Warhol.  It would be difficult to characterize him as an "antagonist" of comic books.

3) Evil is a nebulous term in real life.  However, in some roleplaying, evil is very concrete.  It is a defined point on a linear good-evil scale (well, not entirely linear if you account for lawfulness and chaos) in the D&D system, which is where a lot of the conflict about evil in roleplaying originates.  I think that the current views of the public on the morality of roleplaying would be much different if D&D had not introduced such a simplistic view of "alignment" with good, evil, and neutral personality types.

4) For the record, I never said I "enjoyed" roleplaying campaigns centering on pedophilia.  Or Boy Scout camp-outs, which amount to the same thing in my mind.

Spriggan:

--- Quote --- I have played Vampire The Masquerade and Call of Cthulhu.  I've never worshipped Satan - I don't even like the guy.  I've also never been addicted to any drugs (beyond a casual acquaintance with a little demon called caffeine).  And I never wear my cape in public.
--- End quote ---

Really?  When we use to play D&D I could have sworn I saw you sniffing markers.  On second thought maybe it was Faith  ;D  Anyway Kid I don'y beleave 42 was sterotypeing.  A) he dosen't know you all that well and probaly had no idea you've played Vampire. b) Also I've herd his stories about some of the people.  But you have to admit a lot of people who play that game regulary are a little messed up.

Now to fells argument, one of the biggest things that help restrict the buying of explicit lyrics cd's and R movies and violent VG is that most of the stores are supposed to check.  It's not a federal law (one tries to get past every year or so but dosen't).  But there was a big initive by retail stores to try to limit who they sell thoes to.  big chains like Walmart and Target is comanie policy to check ID's.  And the mall stores (ie babages, suncost, Software ECT) are suppose to card to (from what I undersand it is thier companie policy to do so, but I;m not sure how strick they are).  point 2 is that both CD's, VG, have gotten a lota press time, so parents know more about them and know that's something to watch.
Now I would say that most people buy their RPG stuff in comic shops.  Most of these are small locialy owned stores.  Most of these stores probaly don't have any carding policy and unless they were trying to have a family frendly atmosphere (IE games people play or Hobby Town) I doubt they would check.  Most of those stores don't make a lot of money (at least  out here) and why deny themself the extra income.
And while RPG have had a little press now and then (none very good) they've never gotten as much or fearce of coverage as the CD lyrics and Video Game debate (both which still go on)  Both are billion Dollar industries and RPG aren't, so that's one reason that the others get more coverage.  My parents never questioned the RPG's me and EUOL have bought but I have gotten questioned on VG before.  Also my highschool friends who played parents never questioned the contenet of the books, and trust me some of their parents were super religous and got on their kids case about everything else.

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