Question regarding Mistborn 2 **SPOILER POTENTIAL****

[Coof]

Since I finished rereading Mistborn 2, something has continued to confuse me.

In Chapter 12when Sazed goes with Marsh to the Conventical to retrieve something. Marsh goes to get Sazed, saying that he needs his help in case his brethren are there. When they are in the Conventical, Marsh tells Sazed not to follow him while he goes up the stairs.

From what we know of the third book chapter one, why would Marsh, who is somewhat controlled by Ruin, need help to protect him from his brethren?

If Ruin really controls Marsh, why would he want Sazed to go with him? Sazed finds the metal journal that eventually leads to the understanding that something is changing his memories and his metalmind. In that case, I am not so sure that it is Ruin controlling Marsh.

Seeing what is contained in the metal journal is partly what convinces Sazed to return to Luthadel. It just seems weird to me that the power that is controlling Marsh, who I assumed to be Ruin, would make that kind of mistake.

I still believe that the Well of Ascension would have called to Vin, she seemed to be going that direction on her own without Sazed's help, so why introduce a variable that could spoil everything?

Does anybody have any thoughts?

[VegasDev]

Ruin may have only partial control by that point. Some time has passed between when you see Marsh at the beginning of book 2 and the end of book 2 when you see him again.

Edit: At that point, Marsh may have been able to tell that Ruin was trying to control him and wanted him to go alone, so he brought Sazed because that was going against the whispers in his head and Sazed was the only one that could memorize everything there that may be important.

[Andrew the Great]

What he said.

[Comatose]

I think Ruin WAS in control at this point.  He wanted Marsh to bring Sazed there, but he also made sure that Marsh hurried Sazed away, so he had to take a rubbing, and thus so that was would be unable to commit the plate to memory, so that he wouldn't notice Ruin's changes.  He needed Sazed to see rubbing, and bring it back (with Ruin's changes) so that Sazed would start to see Vin as the Hero.  Ruin didn't count on Sazed figuring out the bigger story, so when Sazed did, and tried to stop Vin, Ruin ordered MArsh to kill him.  I thought that was fairly obvious.

[VegasDev]

What I don't understand is, if Ruin was easily controlling Marsh like that, why it didn't just force Marsh to release it from the well.

[SarahG]

Clearly, for some reason the person to release Ruin had to be Vin.  Somehow she is different from others.  Exactly how, is what we've all been trying to figure out.

[Comatose]

That also reminds me of the earring, it burned when she got in the well, why would Ruin want her to remove her earring, which gives him more influence over her?  I know this has been talked about before but...

[VegasDev]

Clearly, for some reason the person to release Ruin had to be Vin.  Somehow she is different from others.  Exactly how, is what we've all been trying to figure out.

Vin could use Allomancy, Marsh could use Allomancy.
Marsh was pierced by metal in a Hemalurgic process, Vin may have been pierced by metal in a Hemalurgic process.
Vin had Reen's obsidian, Marsh...

Just adding more ammo for the Pro Reen's Obsidian group, lmao.

[Coof]

I agree that Vin is different from the others. Kelsier couldn't pierce copperclouds but Vin can.
I think Vin had to be the one to release the Well, otherwise Ruin could have forced any Steel Inquisitor to do so.

Also, its naive to think that one of the primary forces of the Mistborn world would underestimate Sazed so easily.

I don't see any evidence to the fact that Ruin could exert more influence on Marsh at the end of Book 2 than at the beginning. Ruin seems to have had control of all the Steel Inquisitors as evidenced by the fact that they banded together and left the conventical to go after the Terris people.

By reading the posts for the Mistborn trilogy, I have noticed that when people start talking about Ruin being connected to the deepness and the Well of Ascension, the Alpha readers seem to go all criptic and they start throwing out fake possibilities.

For me that means that the relationshio between Ruin, the Well of Ascension, the being controling Marsh and the Deepness is either more complicated or more simple than we are saying.

I just had a thought. Maybe not all the steel inquisitors are being controled by Ruin. Ruin obviously knows about the Well. It was important for him to be released by Vin. Why wouldn't he have a couple of Steel Inquisitors go and protect what Vin was going to do. Why send only Marsh and chance him being beaten and his plan stopped?

[Comatose]

I think the obsidian is significant, but not in that way.  I don't think that's why Ruin need Vin.
Vin is also extemely powerful at allomancy, and not just piercing copper clouds with that earring.  She can push and pull harder than a normal mistborn of her size should be able to, she can soothe and riot with extreme delicacy with very little practice.  She actually grasps all allomancy as if it comes naturally to her.  There is something very special about Vin, but what?

and Coof just posted while I was typing.
I also think there's something more to Ruin and the Deepness, I think I talked about that in the Ruin and Preservation thread.  And Ruin didn't underestimate Sazed, Sazed didn't figure it out in time, and only with the help of the mist spirit.  That's what Ruin probably didn't count on, the mist spirit.

[Coof]

If Sazed had the information necessary to decifer the truth, even if its with the Mist spirit's help, then somebody underestimated something.
I think Vin would have been drawn to release the Well of Ascension even without the journal stamped in metal. She was drawn to it.

[Andrew the Great]

I don't think it unlikely that Ruin was just making sure Sazed got the rubbing and associated Vin with the Hero of Ages. As to why Ruin didn't have a bunch of inquisitors protect Vin going in instead of just Marsh...Marsh is the only one around. And even if there are others, as soon as Vin heard anything about them she'd try to take them out.

I think the reason Ruin can't get inquisitors to release him is because hemalurgists can't use the well. Hear me out on this one. Vin had to take her earring out because it burned when she tried to get into the well with it. If an inquisitor tried with eleven ginormous spikes, they'd die.


I think it has to be Vin because she has enough hemalurgy that she can hear Ruin calling and has the knowledge that the well is there, but doesn't have enough hemalurgy that she'll die on contact with the well. Makes sense?

[Coof]

I agree that the Steel Inquisitors couldn't release the power of the Well.

As for Marsh being the only one around, that seems unlikely to me because why would Marsh be there at all?
Also Vin wasn't able to detect Marsh being there, so why couldn't a couple of them be there without anybody telling Vin?

I also don't see why Sazed had to associate Vin with the Hero? Vin was being drawn to the Well without Sazed's help. I think that thumping in her head would have lead her to release the power without Sazed's help.

[Czanos]

I'd assume Steel Inquisitor's aren't exactly the easiest thing to sneak into Luthadel, let alone trying to hide one there. In a city of thousands of people, the one with the spikes through his eyes is really at a disadvantage. Especially while tensions are still high from the war.

[Coof]

Exactly what I was saying. How could Marsh get in unnoticed? However he did it, others could do it as well.