Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: ErikHolmes on June 09, 2009, 08:13:38 AM
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Hey guys,
So I am running a GURPS Infinity game with some friends next week, the Infinity settings involves a large organization that has learned how to travel to parallel earths using technology.The characters patrol and police the alternate earths and can come from all sorts of backgrounds.
One player wants to play a Mistborn.
So, I'm going to be doing some conversions over the next few days for him. The metal I'm having the most trouble with is Pewter. I'm trying to determine how much it would strengthen someone when being burned, flared, etc.
Can anyone remember some of the impressive feats that the characters were able to pull off while burning pewter? I know Vin and others survive some really nasty wounds while burning pewter. I'm trying to remember if it talks about how fast they heal while burning it.
I'm also trying to find examples of great feats of strength, etc. Lifting things, would be the best examples probably.
Can you guys think of any examples that would help me?
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Haha, another thing I just thought of:
Do you think a Mistborn could push away bullets before they hit him?
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I seriously doubt that a mistborn could push away bullets. Given the momentum the bullets have when fired, even though they weigh less than the Mistborn, it depends on the force behind them as well as their weight doesnt it?
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I seriously doubt that a mistborn could push away bullets. Given the momentum the bullets have when fired, even though they weigh less than the Mistborn, it depends on the force behind them as well as their weight doesnt it?
My guess would be that they could push bullets if they were doing a flare pushing all metals away or just to deflect slightly, but it would be very difficult to do just out of the blue due to the sheer speeds that bullets travel. If you add atium to the mix, then yes every time.
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I think I've come to the conclusion that Mistborn could, in fact deflect bullets. In fact, I wonder if it would even be that hard.
For one, the coins they shoot must be approaching bullet speeds anyway. These are dull edged coins, not sharpened arrowheads, yet they tear through flesh with a lot more force then an arrow. Don't most of the coins go THROUGH the persons hit by them?
Also, after just rereading that passage when Vin opens the big vault door by pulling on the metal in it and the metal plate behind it, I'm even more inclined to believe that they can generate the force needed.
The only question would be how long could they sustain a 'push'? You don't know when the trigger is going to be pulled, and once its pulled its too late. But then again, seems that you have the same problem with coinshots, so I think Yes, a Mistborn can deflect bullets.
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Haha, another thing I just thought of:
Do you think a Mistborn could push away bullets before they hit him?
I'd say a mistborn would have no problem at least bending the trajectory of the bullets before they reach him.
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Haha, another thing I just thought of:
Do you think a Mistborn could push away bullets before they hit him?
I'd say a mistborn would have no problem at least bending the trajectory of the bullets before they reach him.
Yes, I think so. Erik is right. The coins are allot like bullets except there bigger and are't fired from a gun, but they do go all the way through a body while bullets get stuck within the body.
If a player had pewter they could have invinsability when a player try and attack him/her because if I remember correctly Vin was always blocking blows and breaking canes in the process.
I don't think pewter hleps them heal but kinda stops the body from giving up. Gives it a boost. I'll have to check on that one though...
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We have seen examples of people being up and around faster with the use of Pewter, actually. I think I remember Vin specifically mentioning a certain someone's remarkable recovery (I'll not say who to avoid spoilers; see the beginning of Hero of Ages) thanks to Pewter. There's also the fact that it keeps you going through extreme exhaustion.
As to great feats of strength, I can't really think of any spectacular displays, but I did come up with a couple examples.
1) Despite Pushing with all her might on a large, heavy metal door and a giant stained glass window, Vin not only remains in one piece but apparently suffers no ill effects. Adrenaline might have had something to do with it at the time, but she does mention Pewter keeping her from being crushed under her own power.
2) The only example I can remember off the top of my head of someone lifting anything would be Vin shouldering a Koloss sword in the Battle of Luthadel. Those things are massive - apparently Vin's was almost as big as she was - but she not only picks it up and walks off with it, but later also swings it around and uses it to deadly effect as though it were the easiest thing in the world. The important thing to remember here is Vin's size. She's tiny, yet that giant Koloss sword was no problem for her.
That's all I can think of right now, but I hope it helps.
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The bullet question might be theoretical unless it was a surprise attack. In any other fight, a mistborn could just push all the guns themselves away. Unless someone gets tricksy with a ceramic gun or something.
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The bullet question might be theoretical unless it was a surprise attack. In any other fight, a mistborn could just push all the guns themselves away. Unless someone gets tricksy with a ceramic gun or something.
You couldn't really surprise the Mistborn ebcause they can sense out metals as well, can't they?
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The problem with bending the bullets trajectory is that if its fired directly at the Mistborn, they can only push it back in the direction it came from. I think it would take mad quick skills with Atium to make any difference at all.
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I think I've come to the conclusion that Mistborn could, in fact deflect bullets. In fact, I wonder if it would even be that hard.
For one, the coins they shoot must be approaching bullet speeds anyway. These are dull edged coins, not sharpened arrowheads, yet they tear through flesh with a lot more force then an arrow. Don't most of the coins go THROUGH the persons hit by them?
Also, after just rereading that passage when Vin opens the big vault door by pulling on the metal in it and the metal plate behind it, I'm even more inclined to believe that they can generate the force needed.
The only question would be how long could they sustain a 'push'? You don't know when the trigger is going to be pulled, and once its pulled its too late. But then again, seems that you have the same problem with coinshots, so I think Yes, a Mistborn can deflect bullets.
I believe a new pair of metals slow down time or speeds it up....Cadmium and I think it was cerrobend, but it could have been changed.Pushing can be sustained as long as the blue line is there.
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One thing to keep in mind here is that this is Vin we're talking about.....
Hey what doyou know, I think I just quoted the book! ;)
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This is true. Of course, unless Mr. Sanderson decides to give us a story centered on a different Mistborn, or write an entire Encyclopedia of Scadrial, Vin - and later one other character, but even then Vin gets more into theory and mechanics - is the best example we have. There is, of course, Kelsier's lessons to Vin, but unfortunately we don't get to see enough of him to judge what he can and can't do with Pewter, which is really the metal in question here. He's a fantastic example of what can be done with Iron and Steel, but everyone on Scadrial and beyond knows that he was the exception and not the rule, there.
Another good source to look for examples of what Pewter does would be a certain PoV in Hero of Ages. Again, I'll refrain from saying who or what due to spoilers.
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The bullet question might be theoretical unless it was a surprise attack. In any other fight, a mistborn could just push all the guns themselves away. Unless someone gets tricksy with a ceramic gun or something.
You couldn't really surprise the Mistborn ebcause they can sense out metals as well, can't they?
Assuming they're paying attention, of course.
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Pewter not only makes you stronger, but it makes you quicker and more agile, and sturdier. Vin kicks some enemies so hard their heads cave in like they were hit with a sledge hammer, yet suffers no damage herself.
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Quote from: Euphrasie on Yesterday at 02:16:09 PM
The bullet question might be theoretical unless it was a surprise attack. In any other fight, a mistborn could just push all the guns themselves away. Unless someone gets tricksy with a ceramic gun or something.
You couldn't really surprise the Mistborn ebcause they can sense out metals as well, can't they?
Well, yeah. But they might just think it's coins or something if they can't see it, and therefore not take any real notice of it at all.
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Alright... Let's turn on nerd mode here. Haven't had physics for a couple years now, but it seems like you could see this as conservation of momentum:
Taking some of the larger values for a .50 caliber round from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_BMG, we can say the bullet has a mass of 0.052 kilograms and a speed of 928 meters per second, which gives us a momentum of 48.256 kg * m/s. Transferring all that momentum to a 50 kg object (say, a person who weighs about 110 pounds), we get a speed of less than 1 m/s (or less than 2.25 miles per hour).
So I would say it is definitely possible to deflect bullets (even without pewter), as the above scenario was overestimated in basically every aspect, especially since deflecting the bullet doesn't take nearly as much effort as stopping the bullet.
The real question, as I think some people have alluded to, is whether a human would have the reflexes needed to direct their abilities towards stopping a fired bullet. It seems more likely that the bullet would never be fired then that it would be deflected after being fired.
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I should think that if they were burning atium, they could definitely steelpush a bullet. Hell, I imagine they could Neo their way around the shots. They could also push/pull against the barrel of the gun (almost certainly metal) or the ball inside before it was fired.
If it the Allomancer were taken by surprise or didn't actively target the ball before it was fired, I would think it'd likely travel across intervening space faster than they could react with a push. If they were pushing on it actively when
it was fired, I'm not sure what would happen... without an anchor, somone's probably gonna fly, and the gun would almost certainly explode (if the push holds the ball inside and effectively plugs the barrel).
As for Greatest Feat of Pewter-Strength...
I'm inclined to think it's the end of book 2, but I'm not positive. t's worth remembering that when Vin was pewter-dragging that koloss sword, she also then leapt through the damn sky like classic golden-age Superman, and brought that same sword down through a full-grown, presumably armored man, and his horse.
That's a neat trick.
But I don't know if it would count as the most powerful example of a pewter-burn in the books. Have to re-read them all for that.
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I should think that if they were burning atium, they could definitely steelpush a bullet. Hell, I imagine they could Neo their way around the shots. They could also push/pull against the barrel of the gun (almost certainly metal) or the ball inside before it was fired.
If it the Allomancer were taken by surprise or didn't actively target the ball before it was fired, I would think it'd likely travel across intervening space faster than they could react with a push. If they were pushing on it actively when
it was fired, I'm not sure what would happen... without an anchor, somone's probably gonna fly, and the gun would almost certainly explode (if the push holds the ball inside and effectively plugs the barrel).
As for Greatest Feat of Pewter-Strength...
I'm inclined to think it's the end of book 2, but I'm not positive. t's worth remembering that when Vin was pewter-dragging that koloss sword, she also then leapt through the damn sky like classic golden-age Superman, and brought that same sword down through a full-grown, presumably armored man, and his horse.
That's a neat trick.
But I don't know if it would count as the most powerful example of a pewter-burn in the books. Have to re-read them all for that.
This neat little trick was probably duralumin-boosted, so I'm pretty certain it shouldn't count.
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I'm pretty sure duralumin is a one-shot deal that burns all of a particular metal at once in a burst of power. Witn a duralumin flare, it's all gone afterward, and the Allomancer returns to human levels. Since she didn't immediately drop the sword or specifically down another vial of metals, I don't know that duralumin was involved during that particular event.
I don't think she leaped on pewter alone, I think she did a mighty steelpush AND leaped, but all of this goes to show that Vin is particularly powerful.
Nevertheless, I should think that wielding a koloss blade or even chopping clean through a horse isn't out of the question for anyone who can effectively burn pewter. It's the combined effort of everything she was doing at once that's impressive.
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I don't have the book available to check right now, but I specifically remember noting that Vin did drink a new vial shortly before or after landing and concluding in part specifically because of that that her incredible leap had involved duralumin.
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You know what, you're right. He specifically refers to the jump as a duralumin-fueled (p706 in my paperback, which I didn't have earlier). My bad, mea culpa.
Hey, look, someone admitted they were wrong in an Internet conversation! It's the End Times a-comin, Ma!!
Still seems like she can wield the sword easily enough while pewter-powered (I'm pretty sure she does it again in book 3), she just can't leap a mile or so at the same time.
Also, am I wrong in thinking that duralumin only flares, burning out the Allomancers reserve in one big punch? Can you slow-burn it to enhance other metals?
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I understood duralumin acted only to extremely flare metals in a large punch. Though if you are wondering if the duralumin itself flares, then the answer would be no. You can slow burn duralumin, flaring out metals in a big punch, but the duralumin still exists, so you could repeat the process with other metals.
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I'm pretty sure duralumin is a one-shot deal that burns all of a particular metal at once in a burst of power. Witn a duralumin flare, it's all gone afterward, and the Allomancer returns to human levels. Since she didn't immediately drop the sword or specifically down another vial of metals, I don't know that duralumin was involved during that particular event.
I don't think she leaped on pewter alone, I think she did a mighty steelpush AND leaped, but all of this goes to show that Vin is particularly powerful.
Nevertheless, I should think that wielding a koloss blade or even chopping clean through a horse isn't out of the question for anyone who can effectively burn pewter. It's the combined effort of everything she was doing at once that's impressive.
This is all true. But I can't help but thinking that most of the energy for slicing the horse in half came from the massive single duralumin jump at the beginning. She probably drank another vial afterwards just to keep herself in one piece and hold onto the sword, but its a combination of a lot of things that allowed the massive feat of strength. But it seems to me that it's no good for calibrating just pewter.
I understood duralumin acted only to extremely flare metals in a large punch. Though if you are wondering if the duralumin itself flares, then the answer would be no. You can slow burn duralumin, flaring out metals in a big punch, but the duralumin still exists, so you could repeat the process with other metals.
This is also what I understood. It seems to me there would be no point in flaring duralumin. Although one would have to wonder what exactly it would do to you.
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No, what I'm saying is, if you burn duralumin doesn't that automatically flare whatever other metals are burning? Or can you slow burn both at once, to enhance?
For instance, duralumin + pewter = pewter x2 (or x10, whatever). Or does burning duralumin at ALL instantly flare out your other burning metals?
I couldn't find it in the annotations at the end of the book, but I could probably find it if I re-read the text. I just can't remember any occasion on which it was used that didn't result in a flare of power.
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Yes all metals that are currently burning are flared. You have to shut off your other metals before burning durilium or they will be gone as well. Makes good thinking for an RPG if a mistborn forgets to shut off tin before turning on durilium. Instant blindness from the flare. :D
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Yes all metals that are currently burning are flared. You have to shut off your other metals before burning durilium or they will be gone as well. Makes good thinking for an RPG if a mistborn forgets to shut off tin before turning on durilium. Instant blindness from the flare. :D
This happened to Vin the first time she burned Duralumin. She didn't try to flare her burning metals. It just happened automatically. The books make more of a point of it later; she was very careful with Duralumin after that point.
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It may be more feasible to push the guns out of the attacker's hands before firing. But it would be cool to see her deflect bullets. I apologize in advance, but I have to do it:
Neo: What are you saying? That I can dodge bullets?
Morpheus: No...when you're ready, you won't have to.
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On the topic of bullet-pushing, as long as a Coinshot or Mistborn noticed in time, it shouldn't be any problem to deflect a bullet. Unless the bullet was aimed directly at the chest (where the steelpush originates) a simple push should suffice to deflect the bullet away from the body. As for pewter, I think the best example is when Vin spars with Hammond, adn when Kelsier and Vin run on Pewter Flare for a day straight.
Am I mistaken?
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Well if this is Vin were talking about then yes she is always paying attention.