Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Chaos on December 16, 2008, 10:27:51 PM
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I just thought I'd post a separate topic for this, rather than having anything related to it on the MB3 Spoiler thread.
(Though I did mark this spoilers, just in case)
I haven't found any typos in it thus far, but I do have one suggestion about the God Metals: Perhaps the position of the Atium/Larasium symbol should be switched? If Larasium's alloys provide expanded Physical and Enhancement effects, shouldn't it's symbol be below that half of the chart (I'm talking about the symbol next to the "Mistborn" text at the bottom). I think that would make it more intuitive if the atium and larasium were switched like that.
Another thing on the atium/Larasium descriptions: "Larasium", in the description, is capitalized, whereas no other metal's name is capitalized. It just seems slightly inconsistent to me, but then again Larasium is pretty special.
And perhaps on the tin description, instead of "All must be increased at the same time", it could be "All will be increased at the same time." The way it's phrased now, it sounds like the Allomancer needs to work to increase all of the senses at the same time, whereas in reality he or she doesn't really have a choice in the matter.
Finally, on the Key for External and Internal Metals, it isn't exactly clear on first glance that the text "Internal Metals" is referring to the inner circle there.
In addition, I hope a wallpaper of 1400x900 is one of those "standard sizes" :D
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Okay, since my brief check didn't see this question anywhere else, I'm going to assume it hasn't been asked yet.
Atium and Larasium both say that in alloy form, they produce "various expanded effects." Does this depend on the metal it is alloyed with? The only alloy we've seen, that I can tell is Malatium, and that was Atium, alloyed with gold, correct? And the effect it produced was very similar to gold. So, what effects would it produce if it were alloyed with, say... Bronze? Also, since the effects are mental and temporal, will it only alloy with the mental/temporal metals?
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I liked how he included the actual metals, and how aluminum and duralumin mistings are called gnats, because they can't really do anything.
There is no mention of coppers ability to shield one from emotional allomancy, which is my suggestion. Also, perhaps it would be wise to mention the mindcontrol aspect of brass and zinc.
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Hey guys - long time forum lurker - I hardly ever post on any forums but I had to point this out. Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a copper bruning Misting called a Smoker? Not a Coppercloud?
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You're right. The coppercloud is the area made by the smoker where allomancy can't be detected.
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Actually, I think they can be called either. Smoker is just more common.
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If you look on Brandon's LiveJournal, he has answered some of those questions and remarks.
From that, apparently this table is made 300? maybe 400? (I don't remember the exact number) years from the trilogy from the perspective of scholars. Therefore all that is mentioned is based on what they know. So the explanations are limited to that. So since (supposedly) Atium will be non-existent, they cannot expand on the alloys, and what they would do.
And Coppercloud is the 'scholar' term for Smokers, but like Pewter Arm is the term for Thug. I believe Brandon responded saying they would include that in parenthesis in the final version of the poster.
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Hi all, I'm also a long time lurker, I thought I'd add my first post here since I'm really into all the Allomancy metal theories.
I'm in agreement with Chaos2651 about which side of the chart the "Larasium" and "Atium" symbols should be on (they should be switched), which would mean that the text in the God Metal box would also need switching around.
Atium and Larasium both say that in alloy form, they produce "various expanded effects." Does this depend on the metal it is alloyed with? The only alloy we've seen, that I can tell is Malatium, and that was Atium, alloyed with gold, correct? And the effect it produced was very similar to gold. So, what effects would it produce if it were alloyed with, say... Bronze? Also, since the effects are mental and temporal, will it only alloy with the mental/temporal metals?
I've seen that someone has updated wikipedia on this. I'm a little unsure about this myself since it has said that when you combine "Larasium" with one of the other metals you can create a Misting of the alloy you mixed it with, but it doesn't say that you can only mix it with Physical and Enhancement metals, otherwise you wouldn't be able to make Rioters, Smokers, etc. We already know that there are "Atium" Mistings (Larasium mixed with Atium I'd imagine).
It would kind of make sense that you would be able to mix "Atium" with the other 16 metals as you can with "Larasium".
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I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this. In Hero of Ages, it's discovered that the mists are Snapping people--exactly 16 out of a hundred, meaning that 1 in every 100 people is made a misting of each of the 16 metals. One in sixteen of the people who fall ill become Atium mistings and are sick much longer. Until the people discovered why the mists made people sick, the Atium mistings were called Mistfallen.
Here's my question: if Atium is a God metal, not truly one of the sixteen allomantic metals, why did anyone become an Atium misting through the mist sickness? Does that mean that one of the other metals was not included in the mist-snapping?
If Preservation just switched out, say, aluminum or duralumin snapping for Atium snapping, then that was a brilliant, brilliant move on his part. The Atium mistings were the final blow to Ruin when they burned the massive Atium stores of the Lord Ruler.
Has Brandon said anything about this? Or did I miss something in the books?
Edit: Here's another question: duralumin never really "burns" away, nor does aluminum, as far as we know. It's like a catalyst. I'm curious whether Nicrosil and Chromium burn away... Could a chromium misting affect a nicrosil misting? And vice-versa?
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Here's a quote from page 48 from the MB3 Spoiler thread that applies, Eleaneth.
I saw Brandon at a book signing back in mid-December, and I asked him about the 16 percent deal. He said that Preservation replaced the real External Temporal Metals with Atium and Malatium (at least I'm assuming Malatium, but he didn't mention that specifically. He only said Atium). So not-Cerrobend and Cadmium weren't counted in the 16%. Nicrosil and Chromium, on the other hand, were. So there are Chromium and Nicrosil mistings running around, not knowing that they're mistings.
When he was answering this, I thought he made it pretty clear that Preservation, with the 16%, was just making Mistings. Not Mistborn. I'm not sure about the people who died. I think maybe those who died from the Mists were Mistborn, but as far as I know, Brandon hasn't confirmed or denied this theory. Nor has he confirmed or denied anything regarding the Atium Mistings created by the mists/Preservation. Maybe they are Mistborn. Maybe they can burn Atium alloys. I'm betting not. I'm betting they're simply Atium Mistings, and that's it.
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Cool! Thanks. I missed that. So Preservation was that clever. :)
And I don't think the people who died were mistborn... I think they were just too weak to withstand the Snapping, since they didn't happen in specific amounts; it was mostly the very old and very young.
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Cool! Thanks. I missed that. So Preservation was that clever. :)
And I don't think the people who died were mistborn... I think they were just too weak to withstand the Snapping, since they didn't happen in specific amounts; it was mostly the very old and very young.
And there was nothing special about how many old and young people died.
BTW, I'm pretty sure the shards can see parts of the future. It seems to me, the more I think about it, that Ruin and Preservation were playing extremely complex strategies against each other, which would presumably interfere with the fortune-telling, but what they could see, they used. How else can we explain Preservation's enormous insight, not to mention ridiculously detailed prophecies, some of which even survived?
I'm not just using Mistborn for this. I'm also thinking of Lightsong's experience in Warbreaker. There seems to be both the ability to see the future and the ability to change the future.
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And don't forget what happened to Elend when he used Atium with Duralumin. I think most of us guess that he saw some part of the future the way the Shards perceive it.
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And don't forget what happened to Elend when he used Atium with Duralumin. I think most of us guess that he saw some part of the future the way the Shards perceive it.
You're right. And we got RAFOed on it, as well. There is more here than meets the eye.
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I'm also curious on Lerasium. The Allomantic chart hints that its alloys could have other abilities than just creating Mistings.
In alloy form, it produces various expanded Physical and Enhancement effects (including the creation of Mistings).
I guess we'll have to RAFO if/when he returns to Mistborn to make a later series...
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I noticed a typo in the spoiler, in the internal/external metals chart, "interal" is missing an "n".
Beyond the obvious, there are some things that don't quite make sense. If Preservation wanted to provide maximum benefit to those affected by the mists, why not replace the internal enhancement metals. What good are 'gnat' mistings?
On the other hand, it's not specified in the books that the "atium" mistings should have been able to burn external temporal metals instead. And this makes some sense as well, since if the difficulty of snapping were determined by the strength of the mists, then each misting type should have had a different reaction, ranging from a single cough or sneeze for gold mistings to the full-out mistfallen attack. A single changed metal might explain why only 1 of 16 got a stronger response.
Though I still think it would make more sense if EVERYONE could burn atium. (Everyone can burn Larasium after all, can't they?) The thing is that no-one would bother wasting an atium bead on a non-mistborn, because they're far too valuable.
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I've gotten a little OCD over the table of late, and feel I must post what I've worked out about the feruchemical and hemallurgical properties of the metals.
so here goes.
I'll start with an index of metals. Adjusted as little as possible from the Table of Allomantic metals posted and what has been figured out.
1. Iron External Physical Pulling Metal
2. Steel External Physical Pushing Metal
3. Tin Internal Physical Pulling Metal
4. Pewter Internal Physical Pushing Metal
5. Zinc External Mental Pulling Metal
6. Brass External Mental Pushing Metal
7. Copper Internal Mental Pulling Metal
8. Bronze Internal Mental Pushing Metal
9. Chromium External Enhancement Pulling Metal
10. Nicrosil External Enhancement Pushing Metal
11. Aluminum Internal Enhancement Pulling Metal
12. Duralumin Internal Enhancement Pushing Metal
13. Cadmium External Temporal Pulling Metal
14. Bendalloy External Temporal Pushing Metal
15. Gold Internal Temporal Pulling Metal
16. Electrum Internal Temporal Pushing Metal
17. Atium Ruin God Metal
18. Lerasium Preservation God Metal
Simple, arranged and patterns are clearly noticeable
ok, onto feruchemy and hemalurgy
Allomantic Power Feruchemical Power Hemallurgical Power
Push/Pull Store Steal
1. Iron Pull Metals Store Physical Weight Steal Human Strength (Potency)**
2. Steel Push Metals Store Physical Speed Steal Allomantic Physical Powers
3. Tin Pull Body (senses) Store Physical Senses Steal Human Senses (Awareness)**
4. Pewter Push Body (strength, etc.) Store Physical Strength Steal Feruchemical Physical Powers
5. Zinc Pull Emotions (Riot) Store Mental Speed Steal Human Emotional Fortitude (Stability)**
6. Brass Push Emotions (Soothe) Store Warmth Steal Feruchemical Mental Powers
7. Copper Pull Allomantic Pulses Store Memories Steal Human Mental Fortitude (Presence)**
8. Bronze Push Allomantic Pulses Store Wakefulness Steal Allomantic Mental Powers
9. Chromium* Pull External Allomantic Metals* Store Neg. Emotions** Steal Feruchemical Enhancement Powers**
10. Nicrosil* Push External Allomantic Metals* Store Positive Emotions** Steal Human Virility**
11. Aluminum Pull Internal Allomantic Metals Store Pain** Steal Allomantic Enhancement Powers
12. Duralumin Push Internal Allomantic Metals Store Virility** Steal Human Charisma**
13. Cadmium* Pull External Time* Store Youth** Steal Human Longevity**
14. Bendalloy* Push External Time* Store Age** Steal Allomantic Temporal Powers**
15. Gold Pull Internal Time Store Health Steal Feruchemical Temporal Powers**
16. Electrum Push Internal Time Store Beauty** Steal Human Beauty**
17. Atium Foresight*** Store Any Feruchemical Charge** Steal Any Allomantic Power*
18. Lerasium* Allomancy* Store Any Allomantic Power** Steal Any Feruchemical Power**
* Modified Since Hero of Ages (not canon yet)
** My own modifications based on observed patterns in the metals (not canon)
*** I believe these are incomplete or inaccurate based on observed patterns (not canon)
for the feruchemical stuff, I believe one of the temporal metals should store age (Cadmium or Bendalloy) And Atium store any feruchemical charge. This makes sense in my mind, but may not be canonically correct.
Also... Adding 2 spikes of the same allomantic charge to a person, when placed correctly should grant Allomantic Savanthood... savvy?
Also also, (teehee) The most powerful Inquisitor would probably have 8 steel spikes, 4 Pewter Spikes, 1 or 2 iron spikes, 5 tin spikes (1 for each type of sense), 1 or 2 zinc spikes, 4 brass spikes, 1 or 2 copper spikes, 8 bronze spikes, 4 chromium spikes, 1 or 2 nicrosil spikes, 8 aluminum spikes, 1 or 2 Duralumin spikes, 1or 2 cadmium spikes, 8 bendalloy spikes, 4 gold spikes, 1 to 2 electrum spikes, and 1 atium spike. or just simplify it to 34 atium spikes, 16 lerasium spikes and 5 tin spikes. so... 55 or 61-68 spikes. Whew, that's a lot of math that doesn't matter at all.
Also also also, (yes, I'm tired and laughing at my own jokes right now) I am one of those who holds with the Atium-Electrum Theory and based on the patterns I've worked out on the table I think Pure Atium should grant Feruchemical Powers. Probably wrong about everything here, but hey, whatever.
Which brings up a theory I just thought up. In the deleted chapters about the Well of Ascension in WoA there is a lake nearby the mountain where the Well is. It reminded me of the lake in Elantris, which is directly related to a shard. I propose this lake was atium. If this lake sunk into the ground, perhaps it became what is now the Pits of Hathsin. Also, if that area of the ground was rich in gold and silver, there is no doubt the atium produced there would be sullied with electrum. This could also explain how feruchemists came to be in the first place. Someone drank from the atium lake while it was still pure, instinctively burned it and got feruchemy. Of course, this only holds water if atium does indeed grant feruchemical powers.
In any case, feel free to dissect my list, insult my intelligence or ponder in quiet solitude. If anyone wants to make modifications, I'd love to hear about them, because this stuff is fascinating to me. (obviously.)
So,.... I'm tired. Think I'll go lie on my bed thinking of this all night. /sigh. Stupid insomnia
I'll probably modify this once I figure out what types of metal were used in the spikes for koloss and kandra.
EDIT: half of that is done.
EDIT: koloss are made with 4 iron spikes. Looks like that avenue of research is exhausted.
Also also also also, If anyone can Identify what I'm semi-quoting in my post scripts, I will award them with kudos.
EDIT:
Ugh, I've found a flaw. By my reasoning, I grouped The feruchemical power of storing health as a Temporal Feruchemical Ability, seeing how Gold is a Temporal metal, However in HoA, The HoA specifically states in one of his/her monologues that a pewter spike allowed an Inquisitor to store health, and it gave no mention of needing gold to store this health in. In any case, this may mean all Feruchemical powers are physical or mental, like ordinary human powers seem to be (unless I can think of temporal or enhancement powers normal humans have (beside virility)). Again, ugh.
EDIT: thought of two more possible human abilities that theoretically could be taken by spikes.
EDIT: ok, until we get further info from B.S. I think the hemallurgical section is as complete as possible.
EDIT: ok, got something for each of the feruchemical metals. About half the table is suppositions, but I really like how it turned out. Yes, I have been up all night obsessing over this. Yes, each of these edits are from a different modification to the post. Yes, I'm slightly insane.
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Having seperate metals to store "youth" and "age" seems a bit weird seeing other metals function such that you gain one quality by storing and the other by tapping. Surely any feruchemical ability to modify your age would work the same way- meaning you are likely missing a feruchemical ability in your projected chart. :)
edit: Also, what distinguishes virility from the ability to store health? Aren't the two referring to subtly different parts of the same concept?
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Umm... guess so.. in any case, that's all I could think of all night, so...
Yeah, whatever, the table will need a little tweaking anyway.
About the youth/age thing. If you can store 'age' you'd just need to always store it and you could be perpetually young, while if you store 'youth' In order to achieve immortality you'd have to have allomancy/feruchemy. So the way I see it, the lord ruler stored youth.
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About the youth/age thing. If you can store 'age' you'd just need to always store it and you could be perpetually young, while if you store 'youth' In order to achieve immortality you'd have to have allomancy/feruchemy. So the way I see it, the lord ruler stored youth.
Right, I'm just saying that this seems to be inconsistent with the other powers, where you don't get two metals that store opposite types of the same property. :)
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k, I see your point. then storing age should be changed to something else. Should probably combine emotion storing as well. As soon as i can think of an enhancement that people have beside virility, I'll change it.
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It's worth bumping this thread to note that there's been some news (http://www.brandonsanderson.com/blog/832/MileHiCon-Signing-Deadline-Allomantic-Table-Updates) regarding the Table posters.
Bah, I wish I had the money for one of the signed-art-print-edition posters. Just the thought of one of those on my wall has me giddy.
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I'm madly refreshing the page in hopes that a Paypal button will spawn. I've been waiting for this since December. I will obtain one!
Sadly, I'm going to bed now, so I'm sure said button will spawn when I am well asleep.
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If you were still HoA you could force the button to appear... :P
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Should be up today. Really! Actually, it was up for about a minute yesterday afternoon as I was testing it. If anyone managed to get an order through in that time, they get the lowest number. ;)
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From what I could make out:
Smoker has joined "Thug" in parenthesis next to the sciency name. Sadly, Brandon has not changed "Nicro" to Booster.
Gold/Electrum and Cedmium/Bendally seem to have switched rows, as have Aluminum/Duralumin and Chromium/Nicrosil.
Nicrosil seems to have a longer entry than any except the god metals.
The Position of Atium and Larasium have been switched.
Edit: The paypal jar just came up.
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Should be up today. Really! Actually, it was up for about a minute yesterday afternoon as I was testing it. If anyone managed to get an order through in that time, they get the lowest number. ;)
Jeez, Peter, I thought we were friends...
Eagerly waiting... Ahem.
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It is very helpful that these come out right around my birthday. And kind of ironic that I suddenly have some empty space on my wall. Almost eerie how it comes out within a week of the date I got Hero of Ages, and will be signed by the same two people . . .
It's like the fulfillment of a prophecy. I must convince the Worldbringers.
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Huh, the buy button seems to be gone now.
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Huh, the buy button seems to be gone now.
Grrr ;)
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Did anyone click it? ;)
Shouldn't be long now.
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Will it be up before 3pm?
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It's up, and I got it.
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Paypal is horrible.... took me at least 8 minutes to get my order in after it kept trying to force me to choose certain things (such as payment method/card) that I didn't want to choose. Then after changing the shipping address to where I work (where someone is always able to sign/receive something) it defaulted it back to another address.....
Anyone know if there is someone I can contact to get the shipping info changed? It's not a huge deal but would certainly save a hassle and a bit of driving.
That was quite frustrating.
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Sorry to hear about your frustrating experience, Phaz. It owuld be nice if there were something we could do about that...
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Sorry to hear about your frustrating experience, Phaz. It owuld be nice if there were something we could do about that...
Would it be possible to change the shipping address? I can email the order info, address it's shipping to and the one I'd prefer.
Overall, it's not a huge deal. I'm sure I'll get the print and very much enjoy it, and hopefully still get a low number even if it wasn't as low as it could of been.
Also, as per Brandon's post... I am willing to buy just about anything you guys put out, especially things that are collectors/limited edition type stuff.
I'd certainly buy 'special' copies of the books (Like the seemingly impossible to get a hold of leather bound WoT copies). The nightblood sword would be a sure thing, however it came, though with a sheath would be cool.
Other things I think would be neat are coins made of different metals from the Mistborn world with the symbol for the metal on the back. A fairly large (like a small, thickish, clock) metal disc of the allomantic table with each symbol made in the metal it represents (or something close to it). Prints of maps from the books, etc. A set of occulator glasses with different colored lenses to put on display would be pretty cool as well, same thing with some inquisitor/koloss spikes.
Another thing that would be nice is buying all brandon's works as a signed/personalized 'set'. I tend to lend out copies all the time and it would be kind of nice to pick up a couple of those to restock the shelves on the bookcase with a little message from Brandon knowing that's what they are used for.
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SOMEbody here got #1.
Phaz, send your info to [email protected] and she can probably get it shipped to the right place.
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Just thought i'd respond to brandon'sw question.
yes. i am interested in almost anything you guys make as collector's items. being the poor college student that i am i am not sure i would be able to buy the more expensive things (though i might have to just suck it up and get a Nightblood), but posters and small collectable would be great.
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SOMEbody here got #1.
Oh, please tell who it was :)
For the items Brandon talked about in his blog post, I would love Feruchemy and Hemalurgy posters. If they had different artwork from the Allomantic ones, that would make it even sweeter.
I'd love a Nightblood, too. Maybe I should allocate a substantial "Brandon Sanderson" fee in my budget I'm allocating now...
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That sounds like a great plan. I would do it too, if I had money to allocate to a budget. Curse my lack of sufficient income and/or desire to apply to numerous colleges who like charging large application fees!!!
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Chaos, you were indeed #1 by a good 5 minutes. Guess your constant reloading paid off.
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That's pretty sweet.
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I guess we'll have to RAFO if/when he returns to Mistborn to make a later series...
Bumped into Brandon at the theaters the other day (we were seeing Mike Nelson and the bots from Rifftrax riffing Plan9) and asked him that very question. He said that he has other stories he wants to write, will of course be brand new characters, but all in the "new world". However, right now he's very sidetracked by the Wheel of Time series (for which he's rather excited).
He also hinted at a Mistborn movie deal...
-shnar
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At least 51 have now been sold. They're going fast!
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Gggghhhhhkkkk. Anyone have a handy method of instantly conjuring $50?
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Ask Hoid....
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Well there's a credit card if you have one, but you have to pay that back eventually...
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Right now there are about 25 left.
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If I had more than 5 bucks to my name and a paypal account I would totally buy one. But, alas, college student.
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They're basically gone now.
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I bought a 18x24 frame today in anticipation of the arrival of the poster, and man, I'm excited. Just holding something the size it's going to be makes me appreciate how large and excellent the poster will be.
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I bought a 18x24 frame today in anticipation of the arrival of the poster, and man, I'm excited. Just holding something the size it's going to be makes me appreciate how large and excellent the poster will be.
If you get yours before the wallpaper versions become available could you post what the metals say?
Also, congrats on getting the first one.
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I bought a 18x24 frame today in anticipation of the arrival of the poster, and man, I'm excited. Just holding something the size it's going to be makes me appreciate how large and excellent the poster will be.
If you get yours before the wallpaper versions become available could you post what the metals say?
Also, congrats on getting the first one.
Sure thing! I know Brandon's blog has a high resolution one that was before the "proofing", I think it's from December 2008 sometime. I know Peter also posted the link to it on a comment to something on Brandon's Facebook. I'll try to find it; wouldn't want to leave anyone in the dark :)
EDIT: I can't find it. Can you oblige us with the link, Peter?
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http://www.brandonsanderson.com/graphics/mb_table_v13.jpg
"Lerasium" is the correct spelling.
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I already have the previous version as my computer's wallpaper, thank you though.
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The final version says pretty much the same thing.
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Paypal said it shipped.
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Any word on these? Still haven't heard anything since buying one.
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I received mine a long time ago.
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Yeah, looks like this one is my fault. Just double checked the tracking, wrote my address wrong. Hopefully this is fixable.
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any word on the smaller, more numerable posters?
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They have been printed and we have them at Dragonsteel Entertainment headquarters. We just need to figure out shipping cost and get the paypal button configured.
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Any news on the free computer wallpapers?
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I'll try to get them up this week. The cheap posters are now up.
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Not sure if "necrobumping" is allowed, but I've got a few question (or just one with multiple parts).
Malatium doesn't appear on the chart, is this because of the phrase "In alloy, produces various expanded Mental and Temporal effects" under Atium?
Am I also correct in saying that Chromium, Nicrosil, Cadmium, and Cerrobend don't appear in the Mistborn series (yet)?
Thanks.
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Yes and yes.