Timewaster's Guide Archive
Games => Role-Playing Games => Topic started by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on November 11, 2004, 09:33:10 AM
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reference: http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=901
It sounds like they've removed every complaint I had about the first book. Finally, psionics may be almost fully integrated into the system!
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ya, they removed some of mine too, though I gave this book the same score I would have the original mostly becasue they left Psycic warrior just as powerful, that imbalenced race (they heal themselfs from damage taken but it's basicaly damage reductoin x/- against that one attack) and the lack of more upper level spells. Also I'm dissapointed in the removal of Mind Blast as a PC ability. I just don't think psionics are balenced well with magic either.
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With the psychic warrior, I don't think it's as unbalanced as you do, at least in the 3.0 book he wasn't. He had much, much fewer pps than a psion, and fewer potential powers and a shorter list to choose from. He also had about 1/2-2/3 as many feats as the Warrior class, which makes a big difference. Have they upped either of those?
as far as balancing out the psionics/magic. I think the main problem is that divine magic and arcane magic have different spell lists. They're brought about by different means. The spell lists have vastly different natures. Yet they interact as if they were the same "Stuff." Detect Magic or Read Magic will work just as well on clerical, druidic, or sorcerer cast effects, no matter who is trying to do the detecting or reading.
On the other hand, Psionics is something completely different. In the standard rules, detect magic won't see psionics, making a psion a more dangerous presence, because he can make "magic-like" effects without being noticed.
There's two routes to correct that, only one of which I've ever seen Wizards address. Their answer is to simplify it and have detect magic/psionics work on all of the above. A detect magic spell cast by a cleric will see any magic or psionic effect, no matter who generated it.
My answer is to break it up a bit more. Detect magic cast by an arcane caster (Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards) can detect arcane magic. You can cast as if it were one level higher to detect Divine Magic or Psionics. Clerics are under the same basic procedure, only it's arcane magic and psionics that are harder to see. Detect Psionics only detects psionics, but detect magic is a power one level higher with corresponding point cost changes, and will detect either divine or arcane magic.
It makes it more complicated, but it feels more real to me. I haven't actually used it. The only campaign I've had with psionics was AORP, and I hadn't implemented it before then. I think though, that it adds a complexity to figuring out problems for the players. It's harder to know what your dealing with without working more, which cuts into resources. It doesn't do it in a debilitating way though, it just makes life a little more challenging.
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ya, they about dubbled their Power points on the Psionic warroir, they're spell list is about the same and they have about 60% or so of the feats that Fighters have.
I guess I should have noted that the default is now that Psionics and Magic intertwine, but they give a few other alternates. One of the alternaites is that they're seperate yet sorta work on each other, so magic get's a detect psionics spell as a 1st level spell, and dispell magic get's a -5 on rolls.
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yeah, that makes him a bit more unbalanced
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I think I really need to play a session with a powerful psion and a powerful wizard to help me form an solid opinion. Sometimes I think psionics are over-powered then other times I think that they fit in just fine. Generally, I do think the psionic warrior is over-powered. It fits in fine if the player doesn't power-play it, but it's easy to power-play a psionic warrior.
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well, unless your character concept is someone who ISN'T very good at what he does, there's not reason not to maximize the effectiveness of any character.
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There is still mind blast, its just a power now, as are most of the 3.0 psionic attack/defense modes (ego whip, etc). Some of them are also renamed if you have trouble finding them.
There is some unbalanced things with psiwarrior, but there is with every class. I think it fits in fine.
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Nope, there's no mind blast in the powers list, there is a weaker version that only stuns for one round.
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The imbalances in the psionic warrior stand out more.
The psionic warrior is probably about the same as a cleric, which is also an unbalanced class. Both cleric and psionic warrior seem to get the best of everything, They have decent fighting capabilities and can cast spells and wear armor. In fact there they just don't have the down sides that some other classes have.
Sure, they are not quite as good as a fighter with their hit points and BAB, but they really aren't bad either. And their spells selections are limited, but not by much. The only down side I can see for either the cleric or the psionic warrior is that they don't get a lot of skill points. Course a lot of classes don't get a lot of skill points, so it doesn't quite balance with everything the cleric and psionic warrior is getting.
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It's all the feats that make Psionic warrior imbalenced to me.
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I would agree with you, sprig.
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My psychopathic Munchkinistic friend explained clerics to em the other day. One would expect him to play a half orc fighter or barbarian. Nope, he plays a cleric.
He then pointed out to me the reason was due to a set of spells enabling him to be a better fighter than a fighter as a cleric.
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What set of spells?
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Nope, there's no mind blast in the powers list, there is a weaker version that only stuns for one round.
Oh well. Stunning is all mind blast does anyway, just use more power points if you want a longer duration or widen power if you want a bigger cone.
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One presumes Bulls Strength is among them.
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Ya, acutaly the psionic versoin is a single spell that gives you the chose to raise any attribute by 4.
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Oh well. Stunning is all mind blast does anyway, just use more power points if you want a longer duration or widen power if you want a bigger cone.
it's not an augmentable power, it's one round period.
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it's not an augmentable power, it's one round period.
My psionic blast says 'for every 2 additional power points you spend, the duration of the stun increases by 1 round.' Let me go check out the errata.
Actually I was talking about cleric for spell buffs, so not animal affinity. Bull Strength would be offset by other buffs I'm guessing the cleric is supposed to use, which I guess would be divine power, righteous might, divine shield, divine favor, greater magic armor/weapon. Some of those spells have errata, and even without the errata I wouldn't say it makes you better than a fighter, just close. The duration on most those spells is also pretty short, you can't just walk around with them.
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only one way to resolve the balance issue. Make characters of various levels and have them duel it out tourney style
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Didn't find any errata on psionic blast, but I haven't checked the boards yet. Sometimes there is 'forthcoming' errata on the boards.
Not exactly a duel to the death, but I have a cleric and my brother has a fighter in the same campaign, and I've cast those spells before and my brother's character was still a better tank and could throw down more damage.