Would you have a second wife?

[The Jade Knight]

Jade: not in every case.

But you just said that "the reason" these things are illegal in our country is because it is founded on freedom, which implies:

A)  That all countries which contain such laws were founded on freedom,
OR
B)  That all countries founded on freedom will contain such laws.

However, ALL contries contain these laws, which means that, scientifically, there is a perfect absence of correlation between the two.

In other words, being founded on freedom has absolutely nothing to do with having laws against murder and rape.

...if you count conjugal rights (a married person's right to have sex with their spouse) as rape, then not all countries have laws against all rape... but then, that would include this country, as this country ("founded on freedom") upheld conjugal rights laws for centuries.

[Renoard]

Jade you've made a very good point.  However I think what mtlhddoc2 meant to say was that the reasoning behind the American legislators decision was influenced by a love of freedom.  This still would fail the test you cite Jade, but at the same time the perspectives of the framers does influence the character of these specific statutes.  These framers of the US Service Code, however, found their morality, invariably, from Biblical sources so we're right back where we started.

[mtlhddoc2]

murder was illegal in most societies before the bible became rote.

[The Jade Knight]

murder was illegal in most societies before the bible became rote.

Indeed.  In fact what is generally called "Judeo-Christian morality" seems to have been nigh-universal among pre-modern societies.

Renoard's point is simply (I believe) that the Bible was what our nation's founders were going off of in figuring out many of the nation's early laws and principles.

[Patriotic Kaz]

Why not...even though i don't believe in it's holiness the structure of it is pretty advanced...the prophets and disciple where far from dim....

[Patriotic Kaz]

Since we have discussed the morality of gay marriage and polygamy, moving on to incest is it the governments right to tell first cousins brothers and sisters that they can't wed? I'm not talking about pedophilia (all pedophiles need to spend more time in cell 300 with Bubba).

[Reaves]

Inbreeding causes insanity in its offspring.

[The Jade Knight]

That's not strictly true.  All it does is simply increases the likelihood that genetic oddities will manifest themselves—including genetic deficiencies, yes.  This may, however, have the effect of actually culling the gene pool, ridding a group of some of their worse genes (as those which carry the genes are much more likely to die from them).  Of course, if you don't want your own children to be more likely to suffer genetic deficiencies, you may want to avoid marriages that endogamic.

[Renoard]

The best way to avoid genetic anomalies is to marry someone of a very different ethnicity.  Kids are prettier and the wider gene pool suppresses a whole spectrum of strong recessives. ;P

[Patriotic Kaz]

The kids aren't necessarily prettier i know half black half white people with a grey skin pigment which i find hideous... now i know half black people with out it and they are hot!!! (that is a general rule) and my previous comment was should the government be able to stop it...and I've heard and read some of the detail jade was talking about you actually can kill of certain bad recessives by inbreeding something...the problem is you run the risk around a 10% chance that you will reinforce bad recessives

[Eerongal]

i honestly, once again, have to say that the government shouldn't be allowed to disallow inbreeding, as long as it's two consenting adults. And this comes with my usual disclaimer tag of "there's no way *I* would do it", but if others want to, that's their own business

[mtlhddoc2]

Eerongal: Did you know that "cousin marriages" are only illegal in a few states? Most of them are down south as well. in most northern  states, you can marry your first cousin. but not your ex-stepsister.

[Eerongal]

Eerongal: Did you know that "cousin marriages" are only illegal in a few states? Most of them are down south as well. in most northern  states, you can marry your first cousin. but not your ex-stepsister.

actually, yes, i did. I know many states allow 1st cousin marriages, and ALL states allow 2nd cousin marriages.

I know, on a genetic level, 2nd cousins pose no problem; not sure about 1st cousins, though.

edit: Slightly relevant interesting story.

I know a guy who was dating a girl, and they found out (after going out for 5 or 6 years) that they shared the same great grandmother, making them second cousins. They continued dating, but they eventually broke up for unrelated reasons.

[mtlhddoc2]

I woudlnt say "no problem" but less of a problem.

for inbreeding, one needs only to look at the monarchies of Europe to see how long term inbreeding can directly effect development. after a few generations, there was significant degredation of the lines. Hemophilia in Russia, mental disorders in Spain, among others. Most of those lines routinely married first or second cousins.

[Eerongal]

I woudlnt say "no problem" but less of a problem.

for inbreeding, one needs only to look at the monarchies of Europe to see how long term inbreeding can directly effect development. after a few generations, there was significant degredation of the lines. Hemophilia in Russia, mental disorders in Spain, among others. Most of those lines routinely married first or second cousins.

well, there's always risk of genetic mutation in any form of reproduction. Incest just causes...extra problems.

Interesting note: Supposedly, everyone in the world is at least 7th cousins from each other. Don't know how true this is, but it's what some people claim (and it honestly wouldn't surprise me)