Hunter (WoD)

[Entsuropi]

A question for the peeps here : what is hunter like? someone i talked to said it was crap, with more twink that Kindred of the East. whats it like in relation to the other WoD games?

[Mr_Pleasington]

I wouldn't call Hunter a twink game.  It's different, but certainly not munchkiny if played right.  The basic premise is that you're playing an ordianary joe who has been given a wee bit of power by an unknown force and the ability to see all the beasties roaming around in the WoD.  

It's easy to play as a "go fight the monster" game, but the rulebook really emphasizes just how much this affects the character's lives.  Most hunters either die or go mad and that's after losing their friends, family, and social standing because everyone thinks that they're nuts.  It's a game of tragic heroes.  

I think it would be hard to run well, but it could be done.  The video game based on it is not really representative of the game.

On a tangent, I picked up Demon the other day and was blown away.  WW managed to combine the major themes from their other games into one, super game. I recommend giving it a look if you're not easily offended by strange takes on religion.

[Entsuropi]

i think ill pass on demon. im still expanding my Mage book collection (at least, when WW get around to making the Void engineers con book, and the Sons of Ether trad book ^_^). then i need to start expanding my Werewolf set. the silent strider book is out, thats on the hitlist. i spend way too much on RPG books besides, i only play at World of Darkness New York City. demon is not a allowed game there.

and heh, i can hardly be offended by a strange take on religion, when im not religious

Im tempted to get hunter simply for a look at how normal humans (well, more normal than most supernaturals) regard all the beasties. hunters are getting more and more mention in the other WoD lines.

[Eagle Prince]

World of Darkness is rumored to be getting a reboot once Exalted runs its course.  Other than finishing off whatever collections you are working on, I would check into that before dumping more money into it.

[Mr_Pleasington]

Not so much a rumor anymore.  WOD 2.0 was confirmed at Gen Con in August along with the Time of Judgement, which is now underway.

As for Exalted, I don't think it will be running itscourse anytime soon as it is doing amazingly well.  On top of the rpg there will a CCG, a miniature game, and a video game based on the setting all due out in the future.

I'm on the CCG playtest list, but it didn'tseem like my type of game,so I haven't really participated.  

Man, I love Exalted though.  Hate the system, love the setting.  I've got a conversion to WUSHU, but it loses some of the flavor.

[Eagle Prince]

Hmm, interesting.  I'll have to check out Exalted, since I like WoD.  Although I used to really like White Wolf, and not so much anymore.  I have a lot of White Wolf books, both RPG and novels.  I'm not totally sure what turned me off, probably their business more than their products.

[Mr_Pleasington]

Exalted completely changed my opinion of White Wolf.

Over the top, epic fantasy.

So good.

Too bad the dreadful Storyteller system is a complete mismatch for it.  So cumbersome, so slow.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

not really, I mena the main rule is ignore the rules if they get in the way... whats slow about that?

[Fellfrosch]

(Not that I've ever played it, but...) If the main feature of a game is that it allows you to ignore the rules, what are you left with? A game with no rules? That would either be slow (while you try to come up with something to fill in) or arbitrary (while you make stuff up in the absence of guidelines). Of course, with a really good GM, arbitrary can occasionally turn out well.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

In a lot of the Vampire games I played it it worked fine, sure it was a little arbitrary, but EVERY gm Ive ever known fudges rolls. The idea is if the rules slow the game down, ignore em, yeah you could roll to see if you kill the security guard, or you could just kill him.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I think I have to agree with Fell on this. there's no point to having a system if you're not going to use a system. A good system would not be one that includes a statement that you ignore any rule that doesn't work for you: any system that DOESN'T include that isn't worth looking at (it's part of what annoyed me about hackmaster, yes yes, go ahead, I know what you're going to say about "spoof" and "satire" but I don't think they pulled it off well enough). An ideal system is one where you don't HAVE to ignore the rules on a constant basis just to make the game playable. I think that's what Fell and Mr. P are saying. that yeah, you can play in just a setting, but it'd be nice if you didn't have to ignore the system packaged with it.

[Eagle Prince]

Storyteller system is practically built on the idea of rule 0 and ad hoc adjustments.  They look more like guidelines then rules next to a system like d20.  I heard the new WoD is supposed to use d20 rules.  If it does, that would probably add a lot to the game.  I think it will lend itself to WoD style of how each game is part of the same world.

[Eagle Prince]

you can play in just a setting, but it'd be nice if you didn't have to ignore the system packaged with it.

Less ignoring it, more of just not a rule to handle it.  In some ways, that puts more pressure on a DM, because they have to decide how to handle that situation.  And if they are a good DM, they will know once you use it, its going to be assumed that is how you will handle the same situation every time.  Not a huge deal if you've been playing WoD with the same players for a long time... you've already filled in all the rule gaps and everyone knows what they are.  Even a seasoned WoD player can walk into a new game and get confused with how certain things are handled.  It also means at some point you have to make up any and all additional rules you need.  Even if you borrow them from another system, its going to be a lot more work then it would have taken to just read them out of the rulebook.

WoD really needs to upgade the Storyteller system or drop it for d20 (I wouldn't recommend trying to do both like Chaosium has).

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

yeah, see... to me, that says not a good system. You need something that ports over quickly, and any changes or house rules should be explanable in just a few minutes, with everyone ready to go.

[Mr_Pleasington]

Rule 0 works fine if you don't want to follow canon or want to house rule a few quirky things about the system, but that's not the problem.

The problem is that ST is a terrible system for Exalted.  Rolling 20-30 dice for actions is extremely slow and makes combat take forever.  Even slower than D&D.  This is a game about over the top high speed action and the system doesn't reflect that.  A simpler sytem like WUSHU or BESM would fit much better, which is why conversions to both of those are abundant.  The problem with that is that despite such a terrible mismatch of setting and system WW managed to tie the two together in really interesting ways that let the mechanics evoke the setting.  Switching systems removes some of this flavor, but its worth it.

And WOD 2.0 will not be d20.  Rumors were abound about this and fans were in a tizzy all over the net to think their favorite system had sold out to consumerism.  The rumors are false.  WOD 2.0 will not be d20.

However, they are re-releasing the Aeon Contiunuum...Adventure!, Trinity, and Aberrant... in d20 format, which is an interesting choice.  While I'm not a huge fan of d20 (after 3E burnout) I always liked those games and think they deserve a second shot.

Oh, and btw, welcome to the boards, Eagle.