Riddles

[Eric James Stone]

But assuming that you ask two people, you can be assured that one of them is not the outcast.

But if you don't know which one is not the outcast, you don't know which answer to rely on.

I think you may have a workable answer, but you need to demonstrate your reasoning a bit more clearly.

[Firemeboy]

It seems like somehow you need to isolate who is the outcast, so you can ask my first question.  But I can't figure out how to do that...

[Eric James Stone]

I think your question works if you ask it twice and think through the implications.   It's a different solution from what I had, but I think that's because I didn't lay out the problem exactly the way I heard it originally.

(The original version didn't have the "I don't know" and "I know" answers available to distinguish the outcast.  I'm not sure how that was done -- maybe by having the outcasts alternately tell the truth and lie, and the other two knew what the outcast would do next.)

[Firemeboy]

What about this.  You could introduce yourself as Jim.  Then ask, "If I ask him, "Is my name Jim", will he say yes?"

If you ask the honest person, then he would either say no (about the liar), or I don't know (about the outcast).

If you ask the liar, they will either say "no" (about the honest person), or "I know" (About the outcast).

If you ask the outcast, they will either say "yes" (being honest about the honest person), or "no" (lying about the honest person), or "no" (being honest about the liar), or "yes" (lying about the liar).

So, if the person answers yes, or I know, or I don't know, you know the identity, and you can either ask the other two the original question, or ask the honest person or liar the quetsion, and know what the answer is.

But, if he answers no, he might be any of the three, and then you are hosed.

It's too late, I can't wrap my brain around this one.

[Eric James Stone]

Stick to your original question and work through the implications of asking it twice.  You're close.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

This is a variation of the question asked in Laberynth about two doors, one leading to the way out, the other leading to certain death. There are two answers to that riddle, but I can only remember the one firemeboy has already started working with. I will now rack my brain for the other answer so I can figure it out with the third person worked in.

[Legion]

Quick question.....If you ask a question of the Truthteller about the outcast what would be the answer...since they lie at random wouldn't the truthteller not know what the outcast would say therefore he could not answer with a simple yes or no...it would be more like I do not know, which is not a valid answer for this riddle

[Eric James Stone]

Firemeboy also asked about that, and here's the answer, for purposes of solving the problem as I presented it:

If you pointed at the outcast and asked the Truthteller, "If I asked that man if the Truthteller village is to the East, would he answer 'Yes'?" then the only truthful response would be "I don't know."

So, I guess the only thing the Lieteller could do would be the opposite: "I know."

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that in the original version of the problem, the outcasts are supposed to alternate between truth and lies, and the other two know where the outcast is in the cycle, so they can predict whether his next answer will be true or false.

I'll take a solution to the problem either way.

[Firemeboy]

Ok, so if you ask my original question, "If I ask him does the honest village lie to the east, would he say yes?"

If I'm asking the truth teller and pointing to the liar, I will either get a yes, if the honest village lies to the West, or a no if the honest village lies to the east.  If I'm pointing to the outcast I will get a "I don't know".

If I'm asking the liar, and pointing to the honest fellow, I will either get a yes, if the honest village lies to the West, or a no if the village lies to the East.  If I'm pointing to the Outcast, I will get a "I know."

Now, if I've picked the outcast, I will get a yes or a no, based on whether or not he wants to lie, or tell the truth.  So he is a wild card.  I can glean nothing from him.  This is where I'm hitting a brick wall.  If I don't know if I've picked the outcast, how can I make a certain decision?

If I get lucky and get a 'I know' or 'I don't know', then I've solved the puzzle.  I know both who is the liar, and who is the truth teller, and can simply use my second quetsion to determine where the village is.  But If I don't luck out, I need to use the second question to determine who is who.  Worst case scenario, I piced the outcast the first time, and get to yes/no answers.  Then I know who the outcast is, but I still don't know where the village is.  I would need a third quetsion.

If I picked a liar or a honest person the first time, I could glean it in two questions.  But again, if I picked the outcast the first time, I still don't know the answer, because he could have lied twice.

Somebody show me where I'm going wrong.

[Eric James Stone]

Suppose on your first question you ask A about B.

1. Suppose A is the outcast.  You will get either a yes or a no from A about B.

2. Suppose B is the outcast.  You will get either an "I don't know" or an "I know" from A.

3. Suppose C is the outcast.  You will get either a yes or a no from A about B.

Now, for #2, there's no problem.  If you know B is the outcast, then you ask the question of A about C.  Since neither of them is an outcast, you can use A's answer to determine where the village is.

With #1 and #3, you don't know if you can rely on A's answer, because you don't if A or C is the outcast.  But you do know that B is not the outcast.  So you ask your question again, but this time you ask B about C.

If B gives a "yes" or "no" answer, you know you can rely on it because A must be the outcast.

If B gives an "I don't know" or an "I know" answer, you know C must be the outcast.  That means you can rely on A's answer to the first question about B, because neither of them is the outcast.

I believe that covers all the bases.

[Firemeboy]

I think it does...  

[Firemeboy]

Ok, here is another...

You've just purchased your first new home. When you arrive to beginning moving in, you discover that the builder forgot something. Being a self-reliant sort of person, you decide to finish the job yourself. You stroll down to the local hardware store and find exactly what you need at a price you can afford. The hardware store charges perfectly reasonable prices for the items; 7 will cost $1.00, 10 will cost $2.00, and 100 will cost $3.00. As it happens, you need 880, which also costs $3.00.

These items could likely be found at any hardware store, and at your average home.

What did the builder forget?

[Eric James Stone]

The home's address numbers.  The address is 880 [Street Name].

[Firemeboy]

yep...

[Eric James Stone]

This one is one of my favorites:

You're a lieutenant in charge of a sergeant and four privates.  You have a 40-foot flagpole that is one foot in diameter at one end (intended as the base) and 6 inches in diameter at the other (intended as the top).  There is a hole six feet deep and three feet wide, into which the flagpole must be placed in the middle, so that concrete can be poured around it to fix it in position.  You have three pieces of rope -- one 38 feet long, one 27 feet long, and one six feet long.

Explain what you would do to get the flagpole into position.