Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Reading Excuses => Topic started by: ErikHolmes on September 01, 2009, 06:04:04 AM
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Two rewrites in this submission.
So I gave it a lot of thought and decided to rewrite the last Ellie Chapter. I'm a lot happier with this version.
I also rewrote the scene's when Kail and Kajsa leave to go find Ellie and turned it into its own chapter. The Chapter really just covers the first few hours of their journey, before they get to the poisoned tree. My main concern is that it might be too info-dumpy.
I'm also trying to work out way to get the plot going a little earlier. I'm still working on how to accomplish that, but one step I took was to add the following bit of dialog to the chapter where Kail and Kajsa first meet. It takes place while they are trading questions back and forth. Let me know if you think it might help:
“Malrune,” she corrected. “They are very hard to learn, but I will try. Now go sit, rest, and I will make us something to eat.”
“But I still have questions . . .”
“But I’m hungry . . .” She countered. Then she sighed, “One more question.”
I asked the one that bothered me the most; the one I wanted answered the most. “Kajsa, who is it that wants that sword. Is it worth everything that’s happened? They—they killed my best friend trying to get that damn sword.”
Kajsa set down the carrots she had fetched and looked over at me, her features softened and she nodded. “Yes. If only half the rumors I’ve heard about that weapon are true then it is worth it. If you’re friend died trying to keep it out of the wrong hands then it was a noble death, one worthy of song. As a weapon it is said to be irresistible, capable of slaying any foe. But as a tool . . . it is even more dangerous.”
“What nation can stand against a foe that can bring an army to its doorstep in an instant, behind its defenses? Or how do you defeat a foe who can retreat at any time to a place of strength and sustenance? How many resources could one collect from a thousand worlds?”
She picked the carrots back up and started to wash them. “To answer your question Kail: Everyone wants that sword.”
“Now, enough questions. Rest. You look tired.”
Thanks for reading, as always!
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Just a note, I didn't read your last submission, though I did know Bloodbath died in the previous version. Yay for him living here.I wasn't completely enamored of this submission. I don't realize why these humans are a threat... Though this could be the exhaustion setting in.
One thing I do realize: the Sword of Worlds is some hardcore magic. You better explain it to my satisfaction in this book ;)
I'm split on chapter fifteen. You do develop character relation within the framework of figuring stuff out. Learning who killed Lance is of special interest. It seems Kail moves too quickly to "I'll find a way to kill them", in my opinion--that one-line paragraph stuck out for me, and not for a good reason.
But really, does there have to be singing? That was one too many bits of "information" for me to handle, and it hadn't even been descriptive to answer the question of what Fae are. Oh well.
The character development is what shines here. Personally, I think you should focus on that most importantly, and let the exposition take a back seat. The character interaction, and Kail's reaction to Kajsa's emotions, could be made more explicit. That would make the chapter much more interesting. Still, you get props for not making it an entire infodumpy chapter; you did accomplish more than one thing here.
“Very well, but only if you’ll accept something from me in return.”
“Kajsa, you don’t have to give me anything.”
“Yes, it is a custom among my kind.”
This seems superfluous, given that in this same chapter, we had the trading for information. It's not a big leap that Kajsa would trade for other things, too. This line of dialogue is not accomplishing anything new.
Overall, the chapters are okay. I worry about your pacing with chapters. As I jumped from Ellie's Ch 14 to Kail's 15, it was a big jump from an area of really high tension to something completely different, which felt jarring. Watch out for that.
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I haven't read the updated version of your story--don't have access to that email address at the moment--but I will comment on the added paragraph in your intro. The information is good, but the delivery is kind of bad. Kajsa is not a nice person, and she acts like she is in the paragraph you added. Also, why doesn't Kajsa want the sword? She is devious, so if she wanted it, shouldn't she lie here? Why would she be straight up and honest if at this point she is still planning on eating/killing Kail.
Overall, I think the additioned paragraph is needed, but it needs some re-working.
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She spoke with an accent, but it sounded a lot like English. Somehow though, even when the words were different I understood everything she said.
Did what she say sound like it had an English accent, or was Ellie unsure that the woman was speaking English? Your description of what is going on here is not clear.
Then he stood there, growling as the rest of the knights and soldiers rode forward. Two more knights galloped towards us, with a human warrior between them.
I froze up when I spotted him. It was like walking into a supermarket, turning down an isle only to find a Lion starting back at you. Unexpected and stunning.
I wasn't sure who you were referring to with the "him" here. It took a second read to realize you meant the human warrior.
I finished the first chapter. A much more satisfying read. I don't think you necessarily had to let bloodbath live, but the battle made a lot more sense, and Ellie wasn't a complete idiot. Problems fixed. Well done. However, if the bad guys keep their word about letting bloodbath live, well, they aren't as bad a bad guy as they were made out to be. Unless there is a very quick rescue/escape, or torture to get Ellie to cooperate, then your bad guys are kinda wussie.
Now the second chapter. A lot of exposition, but well done, although I guess I do have one criticism... I think this chapter might fail the "So What?" test. I mean, Kajsa and Kail grow closer--that's great, but as far as I can tell, that's all that's really said in this chapter. I felt that there was supposed to be more meaning to ring exchange, but I don't know what it is. What was the ring Kajsa gave him? If she doesn't tell him outright, there needs to be some hint, some clue. The first half of the chapter we find out about the bad guys and that is great and needed to be done. The second half is more about the rings, but there is no revelation but it feels like there should be.
Anyway, bravo. I like the two new chapters.
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Chapter fourteen is, in my opinion, MUCH improved! Aside from letting Bloodbath live (barely), I agree that Ellie is much less of a ditz and is starting to become a character whose actions are possible to comprehend. Although I still don't know why she automatically rules out Bloodbath's group as "help for Kail..."
But anyway- I don't see the Bad Guys as being more wussie now than they were. With Bloodbath alive and Ellie swearing to cooperate as long as he lives, that gives both groups a powerful bargaining chip. Plus Ellie's got the Sword of Worlds, which they probably recognize, and most likely want. However much they like killing, they've got to recognize that sometimes it pays to do things in a different way.
Chapter fifteen, as well, is much improved. ;D I think you can leave the exposition in- these are all questions I would be asking were I in Kail's situation. But then, I love learning about worlds almost as much as I like getting through a plot, so... for me, it doesn't always have to be ACTION, ACTION, ACTION all the time. And I liked the singing! There wasn't much of it, it was poetic and poignant, and helped emphasize this side of Kajsa, and lead nicely into the info that Trolls don't have souls- which the reader now doubts. 8) Because of the singing. 8)
Also, you gave enough hints that the pearl ring will be important that I don't think it's necessary to go into to much more detail on it here. The point of the scene is that Kail and Kajsa are growing closer and exchanging parts of themselves. It goes without saying that these parts will drastically affect things later on- hopefully for the better!
Great job! Looking forward to more!
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I didn't have any new problems with these sections and mostly saw it as an improvement, but for whatever reason they just struck me as long. I think you could probably condense a lot of the back and forth. It became tiresome and stilted to me. And most of the sentence structure was a list of "I did this," then "I did that" and it could easily be varied and condensed. I liked the scenes alright, but I think they could be more powerful if you cut down, maybe even by half each, while still keeping your most important information and emotion.
And yes, I still am with Ravenstar in saying that I think Bloodbath's group would have been better 'help for Kail' and I also wonder why the big bad so willing gave up his horse for her after all their negotiation, though I am good with them keeping Bloodbath alive.
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Wait, where did Ellie get Kail's sword from? She'd left it out front, as I recall. And why didn't the soldiers pick it up?
Anyway, I agree that Ellie's actions seem more comprehensible in this chapter, and the character development in both of these chapters is much improved.
I wasn't necessarily opposed to Bloodbath dying, but I don't have a problem with the way you've redone this scene. Nor do I think the bad guys are necessarily less frightening because they let him live. If you're concerned about it, you can always show them (or some of them) being disappointed that they don't slay Bloodbath. Or whatever.
You've implied that the guys who came after Lance in the first chapter were victims of the Unseelie host. Are any of those in the group that's captured Ellie? If so, do they act different from other men? How so? something to think about.
As Frog's already mentioned, I noticed a lot of really similar sentence structures, particularly in Ellie's chapter (at least so far as I recall). A lot of this can be varied or condensed later.
I'm still concerned about the pacing. I do think that the paragraph you added in that earlier chapter (the one you copy-pasted to this thread) well help. With emphasis on the word help, because I don't think it will fix the problems on its own. The information is great, but it's just that: information. We also need a sense of forward motion. I know Kail and Ellie are running around doing things, but they're mostly looking for each other, and other than the initial chapters and now Ellie's most recent, the Plot has not yet come looking for them.
It doesn't hurt to be aware of this now, but again, I wouldn't be terribly worried about fixing it just yet. If nothing else, it will be a lot easier to improve your pacing once you've finished and have all the pieces in front of you.
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I must admit, I'm having a bit of trouble putting thoughts into words at the moment. Forgive me if none of this makes any sense. Also, I just caught up on a big chunk of SoW at once, and the chapter lines are blurred in my mind, and I haven't bothered to look at the old feedback threads, so forgive me if I cover ground that's been beaten fallow in past threads.
First, I think Kajsa is a great character. She doesn't often make sense, but I think that's to be expected. I will say, however, that Kail looks awfully shallow in these chapters. I can see no motivation for him to want to get in so deep with this woman he only just met, beyond her hotness. I mean, she had just tried to kill him. How does that spur him to kiss and bed her? Does not compute.
He then looks crass and selfish when he realizes he just had unprotected sex and worries a bit about STD's without giving a second thought to the most common of sexually transmitted diseases: conception.
Has he given any thought to where his relationship with Kajsa will lead? Does he plan to stay in the world forever? Does he care at all that Ellie will probably freak (or at least be devastated) when she finds out? We've seen no such thoughts even cross his mind, which, again, makes him look more than a little foolish, and makes him less sympathetic to me.
This may match your intent for his character perfectly, and that may be okay, as long as you're aware that that's what you're doing.
Then there's Ellie, and again, I have to wonder what she's thinking. There's just no way, at least in my mind, that she could really believe that Kail will still be alive when she gets back to him. How long has she left him lying with a bullet hole in his chest? Why is it that she doesn't think to ask the wolves to carry him? Why doesn't she think to do it herself upon discovering her magically enhanced strength? Why doesn't she ask Bloodbath where to find help, instead of simply ignoring his warning that the village is not inhabited by nice people?
What's more, how does Bloodbath just let her walk into such a dangerous situation? He tells her that he can't protect her from them, but apparently his oath to protect her doesn't extend to protecting her from herself.
I like your world, though I'm still confused by it. It seems that every world knows about the multiplicity of worlds and reality of magic except ours, which doesn't make sense to me. I don't want this world to be Kail's final destination; I either want to see more worlds, or for him to return and discover an undercurrent of magic in our own.
And I think my brain just ran out of juice. I wanted to say more, but I can't remember about what, so I'll just close by saying I'm still interested to see where this goes, provided it *does* go somewhere. ;)
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I just realized that I deleted your chapters thinking that I had already read them...so sorry that I can't really offer a critique, but according to everyone else it was good, so good job!
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I just realized that I deleted your chapters thinking that I had already read them...so sorry that I can't really offer a critique, but according to everyone else it was good, so good job!
Couldn't you download them again from the email? Or do you immediately delete your emails after reading?
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Haha, well, I happened to clean out my email after...
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Ah... just wondering. The only emails I ever delete are from Sallie Mae or the ones that go directly to my junk mail folder.
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Haha, well, I happened to clean out my email after...
I could send you an email of the whole package, if you want, Hamster.
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Well thank you sir! That would be quite handy, Erik's chapters 14 and 15 will be sufficient, thanks a lot Chaos!
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Sent it off for you.
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The main issue, I think, is that Ellie's actions lack urgency. Her friend is lying bleeding in the forest somewhere, or so she thinks, she has no idea how to help him, no idea how to even get back to him, and her wandering off in the first place didn't make much sense, either.
There's also the problem that some of the dialogue, especially the lines of the woman who takes Ellie in, feels a bit wooden. More like pure exposition than actual speech.
I did not, however, feel that any part of Kail's chapter was an infodump or filler, or anything of the sort. I fully agree with Raven, the exchange of the rings feels significant enough without any added explanation, and I think it works very well as a chapter of its own. I'd maybe even go so far as to say that there wasn't enough info being dumped. ;)
A final thought: if Bloodbath does get offed this early, it will make him appear to be something of a deus ex machina in retrospect. He came, he helped, he died so as not to upset the balance of the plot. That may be the time delay in between submissions speaking, though, it's hard to get a sense of how much time one would have spent reading up to this point.
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The main issue, I think, is that Ellie's actions lack urgency. Her friend is lying bleeding in the forest somewhere, or so she thinks, she has no idea how to help him, no idea how to even get back to him, and her wandering off in the first place didn't make much sense, either.
I've actually come to the conclusion that this is the weakest point in my novel so far. Ellie running off to get Kail help is pretty weak. I've been trying to think of other reasons for them to get separated but still need to work on it a bit.
I've thought about making the village a lot closer, like just an hour or two away. I could see that making more sense. Ellie thinks leaving him alone for two hours is better then not getting him help, but an hour into the journey gets attacked by the Draken.
When Bloodbath finds her, they go back for Kail, only to find him gone without a trace. They go to the village to see if he is there.
I think that might make a little more sense that the current flow of events.
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When Bloodbath finds her, they go back for Kail, only to find him gone without a trace. They go to the village to see if he is there.
Except Bloodbath would certainly know trollface's scent and where she lives. He'd probably be even less inclined to pay her a visit.
(Yeah, I can't remember her name off the top of my head, so trollface it is.)
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LOL, I thought of that, Trollface (Kajsa tells me shes going to kill you in your sleep btw) actually wouldn't leave a scent for Bloodbath to follow. It has to do with the things with the wind you've seen from her.