20 April 2009 - ryos - Sea of Sand part 3

[ryos]

This is the end of Sea of Sand. Are you sad? Me, I'm happy. I've never finished a story like this before, and it makes me happy to have finished this.

Of course, tomorrow I'll wake up and realize I have to revise the thing. But, for now, I'm riding the high. (And the loopyness of staying up 'till 5 A.M. to do it.)

Thank you all for your comments so far. I look forward to hearing from you on this segment.

[Flo_the_G]

I'm sad, because your email appears to be stuck somewhere along teh intarwebz - and the suspense is killing me.

[ryos]

Huh. I sent it again, just in case.

[wcarter4]

It still feels too fast overall, but it's very decent start to a story and getting a whole draft of the entire story done is quite an accomplishment.

My main gripes are this: first there is really no reason for the priest to be so afraid of the cave that I can reasonably figure out given the last two chapters, and the situation they were in. It just seems to gimmicky. The flash flood is a very real, very believable danger of a canyon in the desert. However, jumping out of a boat into a 20 foot wall of water in an area you described as being full of rocks and switchbacks would be suicide. Speaking as someone who guides kayaks and canoes along rivers, even if you weren't crushed by the boat, you would have your ribs broken and your head smashed against the rocks and sides of the canyon.  On top of that, you would almost certainly drown or succumb to the lacerations you would inevitable acquire. I doubt the priest (who seems like a smart and trained man) would have suggested that either. As an alternative maybe have them try and tie themselves to a rock and have the rope break?

Lastly, the bond with the land you sort of foreshadowed, but you still made it too easy for Selendy to find her father and for her father to simply change his mind and go back to his wife. Neither character had to actually solve the conflict on their own, you just sort of wrapped it up for them. That robs your story of its greatest potential and really screws with the readers' feelings of the passage of time.

Work on these few things in your revisions and I think you will have a very strong story that would be publishable in a literary magazine. Might I suggest the Old Red Kimono?

[Flo_the_G]

Naturally, your first email arrived an hour or so after the second one.

I'll try to be more patient in future.

The writing once again was excellent, but I share wcarter4's concerns about the ending. It's not entirely satisfying, which stems mainly from the fact that the problem that is solved in the end is not actually one that the reader knew about previously. I perceived Selendy's parents as backstory, and didn't really expect them to matter that much (apart from their influence on Selendy's character). The two gods likewise didn't have very much screen time beforehand.

But all of that can be fixed with a few minor edits, inserting a sentence or two here and there and the like. And even without any editing, you definitely don't need to hide the story away somewhere. That is to say: good job!

[Renoard]

Well There is potential here.  With revision you may have a good story.  Not literary, but a cute fantasy piece.

There were some major flaws with this version.
After getting the reader involved with Selendy, and expecting a lot of her, she doesn't actually accomplish much. A quick series of visions, a bit of necromancy a la "Medium" and suddenly she has a new calling.  I assume that the algae is supposed to be sufficient to allow her to return to her home without further penalties for her murder.  But that was understated.

The other major issue was tone.
The overall tone of this section doesn't seem to match up with the previous installment. And there seems to be an attempt to raise the "literary" quality by inserting less used terms that don't necessarily bear the connotation intended.  Inserting little used terms just to boost the literacy of the text doesn't improve the literary qualities of the work.

One example was the following passage:
"This was not the whitish precipitation that accompanied the processes of life; there was no life here to shed its offal into the waters below. No, this was the dandruff of the Usurper, cast off to corrupt the purity of the water."
"Offal" doesn't fit as general biological or animal waste. It has the main connotation of guts or refuse from the processing of meat, despite colloquial use to mean rubbish.  Not the sort of thing to be spontaneously shed.
Also, "dandruff of the devil" seems like an image out of manga rather than serious fiction.

There are other instances of this, but this was a good example.

Lastly, the conclusion was weak.  The theme changed midway in the section, from short story to religious tractate.

Rework these issues and you'll have a decent story.

[ryos]

[The ending is] not entirely satisfying, which stems mainly from the fact that the problem that is solved in the end is not actually one that the reader knew about previously.

I was hoping to give the impression that the main conflict in the story is Selendy's guilt over murdering someone, but I quite clearly failed. I'll fix that as best I can...

However, jumping out of a boat into a 20 foot wall of water in an area you described as being full of rocks and switchbacks would be suicide.

Good! See, that's something I never would have caught. I actually researched flash floods, but I have no idea what to do if faced with one and kind of figured you'd be screwed no matter what you did. What would be better? Grab the mast?

Not literary, but a cute fantasy piece.

Now, see, I consider the fact that it's "not literary" a huge plus and am actually quite relieved you think so. Wcarter4 had me worried.

One example was the following passage:
"This was not the whitish precipitation that accompanied the processes of life; there was no life here to shed its offal into the waters below. No, this was the dandruff of the Usurper, cast off to corrupt the purity of the water."

That was just me stretching desperately to describe the "snow" that's present in the ocean (if you've ever been scuba diving you know exactly what I'm talking about) without using the word "snow". These people live in a tropical climate and I figured they wouldn't know what snow is. Maybe I can get away with just slipping it in?

As for other examples, I'm curious as to where they are. I ask because I really don't have any concept of what most people consider a "big word" and do tend to overuse them if left unchecked. I'm also curious because, due to the tight self-imposed deadline, I wrote the entire final section, from the time Selendy wakes up in the cave for the second time through to the end, as quickly as possible. I basically just tried to hit all the plot points I had in mind without regard to effectiveness of language (or, really, without engaging in my normal process of discovering as I write that my outline has issues and needs to be tweaked as I go)

Lastly, the conclusion was weak.  The theme changed midway in the section, from short story to religious tractate.

Now, see, I was really hoping to avoid this. Maybe it's inevitable since I'm writing a story about redemption that relies heavily on a fictional religion, but I tried really hard not to base the religion on any from the real world and also tried not to make it preachy. I really want to fix that, so do you have any specific examples of things that felt preachy to you?

Thanks for the comments; you guys are insightful as always.

[Renoard]

Now, see, I consider the fact that it's "not literary" a huge plus and am actually quite relieved you think so. Wcarter4 had me worried. Wink

Agreed, high toned art pieces don't get mass market appeal and with the exception of Dune, 2001 and (I would argue) the first 11 books of WoT, art and SF&F don't mix well.  I apologize for snarking at Wcarter.

That was just me stretching desperately to describe the "snow" that's present in the ocean (if you've ever been scuba diving you know exactly what I'm talking about) without using the word "snow".

Better yet I used to body surf where you can't see 3 feet for the sand, salt and detritus.  I had no problem with the fact of the precipitation, just the colorful term offal which seemed like a clinker.  There are an awful lot of cool nouns for waste products without one that calls to mind a slaughter house.  I also had a real problem with Devil dandruff as an image in this kind of serious story.  It read like the author (the author is dead) was mocking the reader.  I'd have had a problem if Shlock had shown up to eat the offal too, and for the same reason.

I really don't have any concept of what most people consider a "big word" and do tend to overuse them if left unchecked.

I'm not concerned with big words.  Offal for instance is rather small it's the jarring inappropriate image, or incorrect usage of terms in order to make the narration sound more intellectual that becomes an issue.
Other clinkers:

• protestation instead of protest
• but she had not joy, for she was alone.
• Selendy first became cognizant of pain in her head.

do you have any specific examples of things that felt preachy to you?

It didn't seem preachy per say.  Instead it arises from an overall impression of the tone, and the way that Selendy comes to these life changing realizations and undocumented powers without any real affect on the character arc.  She's still little Selendy, she just likes herself better. 

"Think, now. Would the man you knew have ever done what he did?"

This is an example that is preachy. The whole argument is polemic and forced.  And Selendy gives in far, far too easily, and without any real opposition.

Also there's a surreal drugged quality to the way she reacts. That would be okay if you "hang a light on it".

It seems to become most pronounced with the line:

About a mile away, she saw the canyon.

  How does she know it's the same canyon?  She's lived her whole life on the beach what gives her this intimate recognition of a place she never been before in an alien environment?  Her only link to humanity is Hafona and when she notices his absence it's limited to "Oh Hafona" and a blase rationalization.  The "baptism" by flash-flood is supposed to have instilled new compassion and a calling, but Hafona is set aside as easily as Toma.

She suddenly has the power to reconcile dead souls, so her first attempt is to reconcile the God of the Sea and the Devil of the land.  Mighty ambitious and there is no foreshadowing to really indicate that it's something she'd consider trying.  Also it includes a bundle of allusions to theological issues (personality of the god's) that we've heard no dogma to support.

The sudden onset of great powers and the completely unconnected instincts about her new calling and her purpose, seem like the sort of "see my paper angel did this, don't you think you should too" kind of arguments that you see in religious and political tracts.  But I guess some would call that preachy.

I hope this helps.

[ryos]

I hope this helps.

It does, lots. Thanks for taking the time!

[Reaves]

  This was not the whitish precipitation that accompanied the processes of life; there was no life here to shed its offal into the waters below.

There are a lot of big words in here. I'm not against big words in books per say, but it is enough of a change from the style in context around it that it seems jarring.

  Selendy tried very hard not to think of them as the Usurper's teeth.

Nice touch.

Okay, so Selendy's mother gave her some kind of priesthood ability that makes water glow. I guess this will be important later, but right now I'm basically going "so what?"


The section of paragraphs from "Selendy awoke to find it dark outside..." to "...once it left the canyon and sunk into the sand," seems like it could be spiced up a bit. Right now its pretty monotonous.

I'm getting the impression that you are using big words without much of a reason for it. It doesn't really feel like purple prose yet, but it is a little jarring. For example, you will say "cognizant" instead of "aware", or "equilibrium" instead of "balance". Clearly not a major issue, but I would just take a closer look at it and come up with a good reason for it.

Hrrm...to me the ending felt pretty anticlimactic. Is this really how it happened?

First of all, I don't understand how her father got from here: 

Her father began to fade away. "I can't. I'm sorry."

to here:   

*Daughter,* whispered a gentle voice in her mind. *Look!* A vision opened to her mind of her mother embracing her father, and they two shone with joy. *See how the lost are redeemed.*

in a few hours. Also, what happened to Hafona?

*There will be others to find, and save. Will you give yourself to this work, to atone for the life you have taken?*

That felt pretty campy.

It wouldn't fix all of these issues, but I would suggest that she have the conversation with her father WHILE she is trying to bridge the gap between the earth and the sea.
Clearly there is a theme of betrayal and reunification running throughout the story, especially this last installment; I would take that even further. What is the backstory between the two gods? Is there any way you can extend your theme to the war between the land and the sea?

I thought you did a very good job of translating the setting into the prose. The story felt dry and gritty, not in the way that gritty is normally used to refer to dark fantasy but just a sort of sandy realism. I don't know if that makes much sense 
I really like the short story you have here. It was a great read. Hafona was a fascinating character that I wish I'd been able to read more about! However, I really feel like you can do much better with the ending.
                                                                                     The Ending
Things I Liked.                                                                                       Things I Didn't.
-Mother and father reuniting. Although,                                     -Tefuna's last words. It basically seems like he is asking
I might have liked it just as much if it                                           her to become mother Teresa.
was not clearly stated that they were                                            -No mention of Hafona. He was one of my favorite
reunited, only implied that someday they                                   characters and I had hoped we were going to hear a bit
might be.                                                                                                 more about his back story.
-The seed beginning to sprout. Its a promise
that even when there is no hope, life still has
a chance. (I can't believe I actually wrote
something that trite; really, I did like it.)

[Reaves]

RYOS CHECK OUT TODAY'S PODCAST!!!

[ryos]

Oh, sure, yeah my ending sucks, rub it in why doncha?

I listened last night. Good advice - most of which I already gleaned from you guys. See? Reading Excuses works.

[RavenstarRHJF]

Sorry this is so late... been swamped lately.

For a first draft (in general) it was alright.  Yeah, it was sorta choppy and some of the transitions didn't make much sense, but these are all things you can fix in rewrite.

In particular, and I know it's been mentioned before, the shift from the main goal of survival and/or return to the city to accepting a position as medium comes at you from out of nowhere.  (I'm trying REALLY hard not to give plot related advice anymore, i.e. suggestions, so I'm going to stop there. )

[Frog]

Thoughts While Reading:
The occasional flashback/dream is fine, but I think you are teetering on overuse.

She wanted to push for them to stay a bit longer in this unlikely oasis; after all, who was to say the algal slime was the only life here? However, she also didn't want to anger Hafona. Yes, he had promised not to hurt her; he had even given her the knife in a bid for her trust; but what good was a promise in the desert, from a murderer?

These thoughts seem unnecessary.

"Though she hadn't decided to look for her father, she still felt that she should find her way to the surface."

This is all seeming a bit abstract to me, but how does she propose to find a dead man that another dead person couldn't find previously, even if she wanted to? I assume it has something to do with her miraculous rescue from the river and her new 'bond with the sea,' but I don't feel like this has been sufficiently explained.

"He had probably died in the flood."

That's it? We need more closure than that for Hafona's character IMO.

Overall Impression:
Well, I had all sorts of abuse prepared for you, but it looks like I've been sufficiently beat to the punch, so I'll be brief. 
Congrats on getting to the end, and I love the themes you are exploring and some of the details of your world. Bad news is that I didn't feel like we got enough of a dramatic arch from MC or that she had to put enough effort into the final climax as it fell a little flat. And I would have liked to see some of the bigger consequences of her quest either in the rivaling deities or in the land she left. Thanks for sharing the story and I hope you take time to expand all it's wonderful potential.

[ryos]

Hey Frog, thanks for getting to it.

The occasional flashback/dream is fine, but I think you are tittering on overuse.

Uhh...huh? Did you mean "teetering"?

Thanks for sharing the story and I hope you take time to expand all it's wonderful potential.

Don't worry on that count. I care about this story too much to let it languish in first draft form.