The Countdown

[Qarlin]

So what would be the drawback of Pewter? Near as we've seen, the only drawback is crashing for a few days after working too hard. Would the stretching mean you could go longer without sleep, and be stronger and all that?

OR, would the stretching mean being stronger, more balanced, blah blah, but the drawback is you need to rest more often, like an inquisitor? Or could that be what happens when you break?

[Andrew the Great]

I think Vin might push herself too far at the very end of the book. But we still really don't know.

As for spook, I think he'll likely end up with no senses. No ability to see, hear, touch, taste.....Yeah, that'd suck.

But ya know....Vin doesn't pewter drag all the time. In fact, she rarely does. I can recall 1 or 2 times so far that she has. She does use her metals a lot, but doesn't flare them all the time. So, actually, I don't think it will be Vin that shows us what happens, but Spook.

[Elmandr]

I think Vin might push herself too far at the very end of the book. But we still really don't know.

As for spook, I think he'll likely end up with no senses. No ability to see, hear, touch, taste.....Yeah, that'd suck.

But ya know....Vin doesn't pewter drag all the time. In fact, she rarely does. I can recall 1 or 2 times so far that she has. She does use her metals a lot, but doesn't flare them all the time. So, actually, I don't think it will be Vin that shows us what happens, but Spook.

Actually, though Vin doesn't flare her pewter, she does keep a constant burn. Throughout book 2, she barely slept, always on night watch's and chasing the mist spirit, and when she wasn't doing that she fighting a band of assassins.

So she just might "break" if there is such a thing.

[Andrew the Great]

The problem with burning it constantly is that you become dependent on it. You feel weak without it. Not that you "break." You break when you flare too often because you push your body further and further. It's like taking more and more of a drug...eventually you overdose. However, if you take the same dosage forever, you don't die of overdose. That and allomancy still has the same potency, it just starts to feel normal.

[Chaos]

In an annotation--I believe it was MB1, where Vin first pewter-dragged--Brandon said that the consequences of pewter-dragging would become clear in Book Three, when Vin has to run to three different places in the Empire to get what needs to be done.

[Andrew the Great]

I don't remember that particular annotation. Have it handy, or do I have to go look?

[Chaos]

I don't remember that particular annotation. Have it handy, or do I have to go look?

No, I'll search for it, because I'm procrastinating writing this paper.

Muwha! I found it! MB1, Part One!

I hope that pewter dragging doesn't seem like something I just pulled out of my hat. I hate it when authors just suddenly come up with new elements of their magic systems. (See my recent article on how to write magic systems for more.) Instead, I find it better when the characters find new ways to apply what they can already do.

This seems to be a natural outgrowth of pewter to me. Plus, I did need a way to get Kelsier and Vin to the battlefield with some manner of speed. In these books, I've found getting people where they need to be at the right time to be one of the most challenging aspects of the series. In book three, I have one character crossing half the continent, then having to run back the other way, just so he can get where he needs to be for the end of the book.

Correction: I guess that would mean Elend, not Vin. Silly me assuming that when Kelsier died, that automatically implies it would be Vin to do Mistborn-y things.

[Chaos]

Sorry for double-post. I found a topic for tomorrow, even though we are a good four hours away (in Mountain time, at least). I'm rereading through all the MB1 annotations--curse you, Andrew for sending me on such an enjoyable distraction. I found this one particularly interesting:

I like this scene for its return to task. The team is refocused, and re-energized, working toward their goal with renewed devotion. And lots of other 're' words.

Anyway, there's a good feel to this scene, and I think a lot is accomplished quickly. I also like how Vin finally confronts Kelsier about the Eleventh Metal. Right here, I guess the reader has to decide whether or not Kelsier is lying. Either he really did find legends about the Eleventh Metal, and he believes in it, or he didn't.

The answer is, by the way, yes. He did find those legends--legends that Sazed hasn't heard of. Legends nobody else has heard of. That is suspicious, true, but Kelsier himself believed them. More on where he got them comes later in the series.

See what I mean when Brandon says "later in the series"? The topic, then, is about the origins of the 11th metal, Malatium.

While we are on the subject, I'd really like for other people to tell me how they pronounce "atium". I'm pretty sure it's a hard T, but when I first read it I made it into some sort of a "sch" sound. I've always wondered what the correct pronounciation is.

[Andrew the Great]

I probably would have made the same assumption - I'm not used to Elend being mistborn yet. Anyway, thanks for quote hunting. I appreciate your kindness in facilitating my laziness.

Ok, origins of the 11th metal is a good topic. I don't really know off the top of my head. Let me think about it for a bit then come back.

A (as in bay) - Tee- Um.

However, that being said, I pronounce Malatium as Malayshum. Not really sure why, but hey....

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Atium's first name was...Atrium. Which was already a word, so Brandon took out the R.

[Chaos]

Atium's first name was...Atrium. Which was already a word, so Brandon took out the R.

Good thing he changed that one. And good thing I now know how to pronounce it right.

Andrew, I always pronounced "atium" something like how you do malatium. Only with a long "A" sound at the start. a-SHEE-um. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking...

[Andrew the Great]

I have now come up with a rather profound answer to the topic. The origins of malatium lie with.... atium. So there.

No, but seriously, it would most likely be discovered somewhere where atium was plentiful. So that gives us a couple of options.

1) The Pits of Hathsin - Someone at the pits got enough extra atium to play around with alloys. Not likely. The only real possibility here that I can think of is Gemmel.

2) The Lord Ruler - decided to play around with it for some reason or another. It gets leaked to someone somewhere, and kelsier hears about it.

3) Other Unknown Atium mine - Somewhere we haven't seen that also produces atium and isn't strictly controlled by the lord ruler.

He also had to hear about it from someone who knew it was the key to defeating the lord ruler, which makes option 2 seem more likely. However, it's possible it came from elsewhere.

[Chaos]

Also, there is Gemmel, Kelsier's Mistborn teacher. He could have something to do with it.

The fact that atium is so rare and so unique in the Mistborn world has always been very odd. And judging whenever I mention that fact, Ookla (and even some other alpha readers, I think) act very mysterious. Like, more mysterious than normal. We're on to something there.

I don't think a second atium mine exists. If there was, then the Lord Ruler would have mined it along with the Pits.

[Qarlin]

Malatium could come from the kandra, since that's the only source for legends I can think of besides Sazed, or some random etching. Maybe that's what the Kandra do with all the atium; the alloy is more useful to them than the pure metal.

[Chaos]

Malatium could come from the kandra, since that's the only source for legends I can think of besides Sazed, or some random etching. Maybe that's what the Kandra do with all the atium; the alloy is more useful to them than the pure metal.

Qarlin, you have no idea how much you just made me smile. I've had the same thought before, and while the malatium-kandra link is nothing to laugh about, I made a radical post on Page 2 of Ruin and Preservation about this very thing!

It's my dumbest theory of all time. The horrible part is that I seem so... certain that I was right.

Eureka! I have discovered the reference! Mists59 is absolutely correct to whatere the reference is. Thank you for that clue .

The alpha readers seem hesitant to tell where this reference is. I will mention it precisely. So, if you are a fan who doesn't want the third book ruined before it comes out, I suggest you stop reading this post (and for that matter, future posts that are based on this one). Don't say I didn't warn you.

Page 299, Well of Ascension. Second to last paragraph. Just like mists59 said, it's during the chat where OreSeur discusses religion with Vin.

"Of course not," OreSeur said. "We honor our Contract, even in religion. The stories say that you'll kill yourselves off. You're of Ruin, after all, while the kandra are of Preservation. You're... actually supposed to destroy the world, I believe. Using the koloss as pawns."

I would transcribe more, but I don't want to infringe on Brandon's and Tor's copyrights. Look it up for the full conversation.

This little discussion is so much more than a simple reference to Ruin and Preservation. Let's dissect!

1. Brandon capitalized Ruin and Preservation. That means it's important. We already know they are, but this can just be considered confirmation.
2. "You're of Ruin, after all" OreSeur says. This has some more meaningful implications. First, it means that kandra know of legends. This information just rolls off his tongue, nonchalantly, like it's obvious.

The next couple things go off of the kandra.

3. Earlier on the page, it says that the kandra have a separate religion away from the Lord Ruler's oppression. This is significant because...
4. ...It means that this is how Kelsier found the Eleventh Metal. If kandra are the only things separated from the Lord Ruler, then they would have to be the source of the legends that Kelsier found (see MB1 annotations for more details. Brandon states that he will reveal where Kelsier got these legends in the third book). The question must be asked, then, why the kandra would support Kelsier and tell him legends.

The kandra don't like the Lord Ruler. I've been taking notes on this Well of Ascension readthrough, and I have details supporting this theory.

Page 203 - OreSeur says that more Allomancers existed during the early days of the Final Empire. Mistborn can somehow "find" kandra, and the Lord Ruler was hunting them down with those Mistborn. OreSeur continues that his people created the Contract to stop that hunt.

Furthermore, this animosity is confirmed on Page 118, where Vin recalls that Kelsier said Renoux (OreSeur) had to keep away from Steel Inquisitors and the Lord Ruler.

This is crucial. Earlier in this topic, we came to the consensus that the Lord Ruler touched the Preservation power at the Well of Ascension. As OreSeur says, kandra are of Preservation, humans Ruin. The Lord Ruler, if he is Preservation, perhaps decided to keep the kandra because he and the kandra are both Preservation, but he didn't "create" the kandra. He does not have power over them explicitly. If he had dominance over them, he would not need Mistborn to hunt down the kandra.

Getting back to Kelsier and the kandra. On the aforementioned page 299 of revelation, it says that kandra religion says that they hope that their oppressors (humans) will perish, and they will be free from the Contract. However, they themselves cannot kill humans, because of the Contract. So, to me, it seems logical that if Kelsier was out to hire a kandra (for his plan in MB1) for express purpose of defeating the Lord Ruler, the kandra would be ecstatic to help him.

Going off of the Ruin/Preservation duality, the kandra must know the obvious fact that defeating the Lord Ruler will cause chaos. Well of Ascension shows this explicitly. Warlords are pining for control. People are using the koloss as pawns (not effectively, but still). They are destroying themselves, like OreSeur says.

They did not help Kelsier because they like Kelsier. They want to help Kelsier so the Lord Ruler, humanity's source of Preservation, would die, so humans would do what comes naturally to them. Cause war. Chaos. And well, Ruin. After the years of Ruin, all humanity would die, and the kandra would no longer need the Contract, because you can't serve a people who are dead.

I'm giddy that I'm the one to discover this. Like Kwaan .

There's one thing I haven't found. On the first page, Ookla links me here. There, other Alpha Readers say that the Ruin Entity's name is explicitly referenced in MB2. I've discovered the reference of Ruin and Preservation, but the Ruin Entity's name eludes me.

Suggestions, here? The best I can come up with is that Humanity is the Ruin Entity, or some weird crap like that. Or the Ruin Entity isn't mysterious, but a human. Something like that. Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible.

Either way, I feel very certain Kelsier got his legends from the kandra. That much is certain.

And when I'm done with Well of Ascension, I'm going to make another topic. This one about direct references to Steel Inquisitors, in a hope to get some information about Hemalurgy. But that's for another day.

Note, it's less about malatium than just atium. Your theory definitely has merit, Qarlin! But let this be a lesson to us all: it is very, very dangerous to go off on these radical theories. The kandra did not orchestrate the fall of the Final Empire so the humans would all die. If by some insane miracle they actually did, then I will immediately praise this as my Shining Moment of Glory. Until then, it's my Dark Moment of Total Mistborn-drunkenness.