Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Books => Topic started by: Patriotic Kaz on May 20, 2009, 09:04:08 PM
-
Let me start out saying please do not talk about things further than i am at... which is currently around page 200 in Deadhouse Gates. Felisin, Baudin, and Hobric have just escaped and are hiding in a cave; Fiddler, Crokus, and Apsalar are being chased by Gral; Kalam is off with Shaik's demon; Shaik has been shot; Shadowthrone's and Cottilton's identities have been revealed as The Emporer and Dancer. And Icarius and Mappo are off to find a broom to kill "spiders" at the monestary.
-
Icarium and Mappo are my favs. Iskaral Pust cracks me up - he has so many funny parts in the series. I'm excited for you to read the end of this one. Keep in mind when you start Memories of Ice that it runs concurrent with Deadhouse Gates.
-
Yeah the timing is confusing.
Kaz you'll have to let us know which warren you find most fun. My favorite character is a fly priest won't say which one. ;P
-
I have come to the belief that the warrens are sentient... i'm at the part where they are trying to get out of the flooded Tiste Edur Warren... i'll give you a more elaborate update with my predictions in another 100 pages or so...
P.S. Felisin is one wicked wretch isn't she
-
I do like her. I do.
-
I just finished Deadhouse Gates half an hour ago...
Heboric is blind with those weird hands and is following Shaik or Felisin who has in turn named her adopted daughter Felisin. Duiker got the refugees to safety and killed that annoying noble... he was crucified on Aren Way with the other soliders but Baruks familars came to get him. The seventh died at the walls or Aren without help from the High Fist. Mappo and Icarium meet up with Fiddler Apsalar and Crokus and they end up going to Tremolor as a group... you find out that Icarium's rage is the result behind a battle with a warren, Azath i believe, the path of hands was put on a detour away from the temple of shadow... Servant is Apsalar's dad and he helped mislead the followers of the path of hands. Tremolour eats a bunch of sole taken and D' ivers moby is a demon who is now the house's guardian. The Azath teleports everyone in seperate groups, Iskaral's spiders happed to be a D' ivers. Kalam kills a bunch of claws and finds love... the aptorian saves him from a large group and they end up in the realm of shadow. Fiddler is off to put down the rebellion in seven cities. Apsalar, Servant, and Crokus end up going back to the coastal town, Kalam stays with Minala in shadow realm with a bunch of kids 1.3k i think... there is some souless child that Coltaine goes into.
Predictions
Laseen is Dancer's daughter or lover
Icarium and Mappo are forever wandering never finding a cure
Duiker is resurected... and pisted off about it
Gesler's gang ascends into whatever house Fener is in
Fiddler ends up finding Mecker and become buds
-
So, that's a lot of stuff that solidifies in my mind the idea that these books are incredibly packed with things going every which way.
But what did you think about the book? Did you like it? Was it fun? And probably more importantly, did it inspire you to immediately go out and acquire the third one?
-
I bought the first three all at once and if i didn't Deadhouse Gates was simply so damn good i would have gone out last night and gotten Memories of Ice last night anyways. I thought that Gardens of Moon had less slow points than Deadhouse Gates but it was indeed a lesser book... there is a lot of information so there are a hand full of times where the book drags but this series is as good as the Blood of Amber and barely lesser than WoT (though this is my personal op pinion and bookstore guy would disagree) the scope on this series is as big as LoTR. Overall it is action packed with amazing battle scenes believable characters and an interesting magic system one of the best series you can pick up. And another thing i like is you don't really know what is going to happen next... you are riding on the characters shoulder you don't have the knowledge of a deity and your foresight is limited.
-
Yeah some authors forget the word limited in Limited Omniscience.
Erikson handles this better than most. Again my only problems are the whole warren system and the fact that when he starts dealing with the Tiste Edur and a few others, the narrator becomes as alien as the characters. That's off-putting because the narrator is supposed to be our friend and guide, our link to why this is speculative fiction and not a hallucinatory episode. ;P
I rally like Whiskey Jack and Felisin. but Felisin is the more sympathetic character.
-
My favorites so far are Fiddler, Coltaine, Kruppe, and Paran...
-
i remember feeling so shocked at the end of book 2 with what happens to the whole Chain of Dogs thing. i had come to love those characters because of their ingenuity (how can you not love the sappers?), and then I felt like i got punched in the face at the ending. then the crows turned it around completely, and I decided i loved this series. Book 3 is SOOOOO much more brutal in the end. I didn't read a book for a month after reading book 3.
i am being intentionally vague since some people haven't read it yet.
-
Well considering this thread is my read through and im on page 266 on book 3 i thank you
-
it was more for those people coming into the thread to see if they should grab the series or not.
now that you have read the prologue to book 3, you understand why the first part of Gardens of the Moon was so crazy. You now know who Nightchill was, and why attention was given to the fact that she gets killed in GotM.
-
This series has me addicted like crack cocaine!!! i just finished MoI and you all know more or less what happened so i don't think i need to summarize it for you... the ending is the burial of the bridgeburners for those who need a reference point.
Thoughts:
I thought that Baudin may have ascended and that if he did it would be in High House Shadow the fact that he was the Knight of Death surprised me.
Bridgeburners do ascend which was foreshadowed in DHG, this i checked in HoC glossary which i just went out and bought.
I thought it was odd that Toc is in Anasters body i thought he would be born as a child but well they need a mortal sword now so it is appropriate
The rulers of the Hold of Beast surprised me i thought it would be the Barghast gods or Paran
Paran being the King of Shadow was a shock i wonder how pisted off Shadowthrone would be if he knew a mortal out ranked him...
Question: is Erickson mormon i ask this because the fact that all the modern gods where once mortal so i thought the possiblity was rather high...
-
House of Chains isn't near as enjoyable as DHG or MoI though it is still a good read... how is it that the Jaghut were stronger in sorcery against the T'lan Imass when ice is weak against fire?
-
once i got going, HoC became very enjoyable. Karsa is freaking awesome once you realize what he is.
-
I'm assuming he is the human version of otaral...well Heboric said it is made of fat so it could be a condensed form of teblor flesh... though i doubt that
-
Im on book 4 of House of Chains named HoC... its after Karsa makes his sword and gets his horse... I looked into the glossary of Tool of Hounds and saw that the holds and houses are missing which leads me to the guess that everything by the master of the deck or for other reasons reverts back to "wandering" or migration...Heboric being more or less young again is going to be badass i've been waiting to read more of him and Kalam who i like alot
-
I finished HoC... where did Apsalar go? i thought she was leading the defense of the first throne but she isn't...
-
Karsa = Awesome. That's pretty much all I have to say about him.
Midnight Tides = The hardest book in the entire series for me. I had real difficulty with the fact that it was the fifth in the series, and I only really got 1 familiar character. Of course, I loved the ending, though I still wish I'd had more of the other plotlines and less of the Tiste Edur. Plot wise, it was great, character wise it was great.... it just lacked some of the familiarity. I don't know if that's an issue for anyone else but it was for me.
That said, about 3/4 of the way through, I grew to like it. A lot. If you don't mind that familiarity thing, this one will probably be one of your favorites.
In my opinion, this series is just barely above WOT, whoever said it was just below.
My favorites = Fiddler and Whiskeyjack, although Quick Ben is pretty awesome and Karsa just makes me happy.
-
I said it was just below WoT.... and i prefer Midnight Tides to House of Chains and Trull and Udinass are amazing i have about 150 pages left... though i think Kalam when he finnally ascends can take on any of the other houses knights including Karsa he will probably give Cotilton a run for his money to
-
there are different aspects of each that I like (between HoC and MT). HoC because of the Karsa angle, but I think MT really shows Erikson's skill at character. He gets a lot of criticism by readers of book 1 who say that there is no character at all. MT really shows how absurd that criticism is. I also really enjoy the humor in MT. That part where he is deciding to either make a pair of shorts or a pair of pants with only 1 leg was so absurd, but it felt so natural in the moment. Awesome.
-
Yeah, I really did like Midnight Tides once I got into it. I just struggled getting into it. Once I decided I liked all of the new characters as much as the old, I was great.
I forgot to add Trull to my list of favorite characters. And Tehol goes on for favorite humor, though not for favorite character. And for some reason, I have this fascination with Ceda Kuru Khan. However you spell his name. I can't figure out why, but I just like him.
My hardest moment was when I looked through the glossary thing at the beginning of the book and saw approximately 2 names that seemed familiar. I liked Midnight Tides a lot, looking back on it. It was just the hardest one for me to get into.
-
Well since Pust was absent they needed comedic relief hence you have Tehol
-
Honestly I'm glad for the change. I like Tehol MUCH Better than Pust. Pust just annoys me.
-
I like him only because it proves that Shadowthrone finds high priest that are while supremely competent have agendas of their own and really do little to worship their god...
-
just found this thread... I powered through this series in about 6 weeks. Just sent Toll the Hounds back to the library this weekend.
And I am still confused. And not a good confused either. I like the books, I like the author, love alot of teh charachters, but there are no less than 5 magic systems and none of them really make any sense.
biggest complaint is the overabundance of words. Really, he does not need to descibe the chair, the jacket on the chair, and the length of time the jacket has been on the chair, for two paragraphs, and then have the chair mean absolutely nothing to the story, or even the scene.
-
Ummmm..... Five Magic Systems? Pretty Sure Not. In fact, I recall one, maybe two, and both very well explained. Sure, we may not understand exactly how/why everything works the way it does, but we understand enough for the books to make sense, and for us to be able to see how the magic could be used. It also lets us have that, "Oh, so that's how he's going to do it," moment when something epically awesome happens. None of the magic systems are clear cut, and they're all complex (like huge), but they are well explained, and they do make sense.
But even if there were 5 magic systems, does that really matter? I've never seen this series described without the words epic or huge scale attached to it. And magic, if used right, can really add to a world. The more systems, the more opportunities to change your setting into something unique.
What are you still confused about? Plot? Magic systems? All of the above? None of the above? I'll do my best to help clear up your confusion if you would like.
I never had much of an issue with overabundance of words, though I can see how others might. It's the same as with Jordan. I personally felt it was great, but I have lots of friends who think it's too long and long-winded.
-
First off before this gets any further im just past the 1st book of Bonehunters so please no spoilers... the only problem i have with erikson's writing is each book takes me about 150 pages to get into it but once everything gets going its gone!!! Now the magic system is explained pretty well but there are some contradictions on warrens. Originally Erickson speaks of warrens as paths and Quick Ben and Harlock go to the beggining of the paths on the bordering of chaos, later the are explained as worlds unto themselves i admit i am somewhat confused.
-
I always assumed that the warrens were more of their own little worlds, and they described them as paths because of a) their usefulness in transportation, and b) the fact that they are all "branches" if you will of the complete magic system based around K'rul.
-
explain the gate where all the warrens open onto chaos don't you remember how Quick Ben found Shadowthrone in GotM he sends his mind into chaos to find the mouth of the fragment in which Ammanas resides
-
My take on the books is that the warrens are essentially folded or pocket dimensions, almost separate universes, where some being or beings are god. Their deification in the warren let's them bleed power back into the "real" world. But the longer they exist the more "diffuse" their personalit(y/ies) becomes until eventually the minds(s) of the warren deity dissipate into mindless power.
-
Andrew, I understand all of what the author has explained, but the problem is that it doesnt really make any sense until, say, book 5, and then he starts contradicting it. And yes, 5 magic systems. Cant say much more withoiut spoiling it for those on earlier books. But Quick Ben utilizes at least 3 of these.
-
It looks to me like there is only one magic system, priesthood to the persons of each warren. Now certain Characters may be linked to more than one warren and the means of using the power might differ, but it still seems that there one system. Link up to the warren and use it.
-
Well, side from Warren, there are also Holds.
Possible Spoiler, going to try and white text it:
The Warrens are formed from the blood of Krul. While the Holds are different and precede the Elder gods. There is also "earth magic" as used by Samar Dev, and another "witchy" kind of magic as used by Quick Ben (the one using the stick figures) and neither of those have anything to do with the Warrens. Plus, there is yet ANOTHER kind of magic using the tiles and a 6th, utilizing a Deck of Dragons. and we have not even started with "god magic" yet, such as the magic of Chaos, as used by the Crippled God, and the magic used by the Redeemer and the Dying God does not conform to any of those either.
Ok, no white text on this board, put it in yellow to make it more difficult to just "read".
-
Please don't tempt me with spoilers... even with the warning i would like this thread not to precede where i am if you wish to talk about bonehunters repear's gale and toll of hounds make a new thread and ill join you in a couple of weeks...
-
I tried to be as contrite as I could, and think I succeeded. Mostly, it wont make much sense to you until you actually get that far. I would think.
-
explain the gate where all the warrens open onto chaos don't you remember how Quick Ben found Shadowthrone in GotM he sends his mind into chaos to find the mouth of the fragment in which Ammanas resides
As far as I understand it, all of the warrens reside withing chaos, kind of surrounded by it. Thus, they must border on chaos somewhere. And I seem to remember Quick forcing his way in. But I could be wrong.
There is also a link to each of the warrens from Starvald Demelain (sp?), although I doubt that's what was used.
@mtlhddoc2 - As far as I'm concerned, the Warrens and Holds are the same system. They aren't necessarily the same power source, but it's the same general idea, and the only real difference is that one is more evolved than the other.
As for the tiles, and the Deck of Dragons, they correspond with the individual holds/warrens. They are part of that same system, not a system unto themselves. The "earth magic" used by Samar Dev and the Wickan warlocks is indeed a separate system, I'll give you that. We don't really know what the magic used by Quick with his little figures is. It could be related to the warrens, it could be related to spirit magic. I doubt it's its own little system. Quick's a clever guy with access to 12 warrens. I'm sure he can figure some stuff like that out.
"God magic" as you call it, so far, seems to be aspected to that god's warren, and could be explained using the regular system. For instance, Shadowthrone uses shadow magic (I never can remember whether he's in Rashan or Meanas). Rake uses Kurald Galain. Osric uses Kurald Thyrllan (or is it Liosan? I also have difficulty remembering with the Leosan). I admit that I don't really understand Elder Gods' magic, but they don't really seem to be aspected. Regular old ascendants though, don't use any special type of magic. Just the warrens.
From what I can tell, most of the magic in the series is based around blood. We know that the elder gods get power from blood. We know that the warrens basically are K'rul's blood. We know that blood is utilized in spirit magics, if not it's exact purpose. *SPOILER KAZ THIS IS MARKED SO YOU DON'T READ IT ALTHOUGH IT IS REALLY QUITE MINOR AND YOU PROBABLY WON'T GET IT UNTIL YOU READ THE 7th AND 8th BOOKS ANYWAY* The magic used by the dying god (though not the redeemer, I don't think he ever even used magic) is also related to blood, since that's really all that the Kemyk or whatever it is contains. The Dying God's Blood. [/SPOILER]
The magic of chaos is part of the magic of the warrens. If you remember, in the first book, Hairlock utilizes it too. It's accessed in the same way as a warren and allows the same general things. It's just that it can hurt you a lot more than the warrens can when you use it.
I think I covered everything in your post. It's mostly just a matter of opinion, though I (of course) think I'm right. Anyway, hope I got all of my facts right. If you notice anything that's wrong, please do point it out. If nothing else, it helps me remember better so that when the next one comes out I don't have to re-read all of them. Although that might not be so bad with these books.
EDIT: I also forgot to mention, if you get confused, a lot of times, this page on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_in_the_Malazan_Book_of_the_Fallen) will clear up your questions. Though you have to be careful of spoilers, cuz there are lots. This includes comprehensive knowledge from the books (most of it anyway) and some stuff from erikson too. So yeah.
-
stop putting spoilers in a DARN READTHROUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and duh chaos envelops the other warrens... that wasn't a spoiler but the fact that you thought it was and put it in here after i asked that not to happen, not to mention common sense dictates you shouldn't do that in a read through, offends me. Don't apolegize just don't do it again!
-
Just finished Bonehunters and ni must say its almost as good as MoI and just as good as Deadhouse Gates
-
Kaz I never said anything about chaos enveloping the other warrens being a spoiler... The only thing that I marked as a spoiler was, in fact, a spoiler. I will avoid anything from the 7th and 8th books in the future, though.
As for the chaos thing, I was trying to explain the question you asked. Quick found his way to the part of chaos that borders Shadowthrone's warren and forced his way in.
Reaper's Gale is one of the better ones in the way of wit, IMO. There was one line where I literally laughed for nearly 5 minutes. And it has a great ending too.
-
I loved Reapers Gale though i was rather upset with Beak's and Trull's deaths... i think Beak may well end up as the Magi for High House Death....
This book changes my favorite characters
Current Favorite characters: Beak, Fiddler, Ganoes Paran, and Tehol
Characters that are fun to read but not quite favorites: Hedge, Udinaas, Trull, Gesler, Kalam, Quick Ben, Toc, and Shadowthrone
-
Just finished Toll the Hounds which kills this thread...im going to open up a spoiler thread now!!!!
-
and hey, Dust of Dreams hits the UK real quick here!