Author Topic: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?  (Read 39296 times)

TMan

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #210 on: January 30, 2009, 11:31:35 PM »
Quote
I think we have to conclude that
a) there's people who wait with sex until marriage, are happy to do so and that's fine.
b) there's people who don't wait, are happy to do so, and that's fine as well.

What I'm trying to say is that we're all happy, and the one thing that would make others unhappy is forcing your way of life to them. I'm not saying anyone here does that, but I'm trying to say that neither side will ever be convinced of the other
Or b) there's people who don't wait, are happy to do so at the time, and that's fine for them until eventually they or someone else gets hurt through their actions.

Why do you do this? I've done my very best in all of my posts to consider everyones viewpoints and feelings and not hurt them, criticize them, or call my own moral superior. I've laid down my personal experience, I've told you I'm happy right now, why do you keep failing to believe or even acknowledge that this may be my own truth? You are in fact judging me by this, and I must say I'm very disappointed at that.

I'll try to leave it at this.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #211 on: January 30, 2009, 11:42:18 PM »
Because I don't believe in "personal truth," just universal truth. And I didn't deny that you may be happy at the moment.

Of course you're speaking from your own experience. I don't expect anything else of anyone else. Your experience is valid for you. But that doesn't mean you exist in isolation and that the personal choices you make will affect no one else.

It is my responsibility as a parent to help as much as possible to make the world a place where good choices are encouraged. If you want to make non-good choices, that is up to your responsibility, but you shouldn't expect me to sit back when poor choices are preached as perfectly acceptable.

I'm not for repressing choices, but I'm against the prohibition of recommending one choice over the other. For example, I think "abstinence-only" sex education in public schools is not practical and may lead to preventable harm to those who choose otherwise. But that doesn't mean I think it's foolish or should be forbidden to recommend abstinence in public-school sex education classes. Keep informed about other options that are out there, but recommend the best option and make sure the negatives of the other options are understood.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 12:05:00 AM by Ookla The Mok »
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #212 on: January 31, 2009, 12:01:28 AM »
the dead horse has been beaten even more deader. any more, and it will be chum and glue.

Vin and Elend are even pissed -  in their graves mind you - at how far far far off the road this has gone.

These are not the droids you are looking for. Move along.
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Cynewulf

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #213 on: January 31, 2009, 12:11:02 AM »
Universal truth? Do you say that with a straight face?

Anyway, as you can see, TMan, you might in your boundless ignorance think you are happy, but Ookla knows better. The fact that you decided to sleep with your former girlfriend might have untold, catastrophical consequences at any time now. Because what you did was so terribly, terribly wrong. Make no mistake about that.

Seriously, I do not yet see quite how someone would actually "get hurt" as a result of two consenting, legal adults parttaking in responsible sex?

Bookstore Guy

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #214 on: January 31, 2009, 12:22:07 AM »
Universal truth? Do you say that with a straight face?

Anyway, as you can see, TMan, you might in your boundless ignorance think you are happy, but Ookla knows better. The fact that you decided to sleep with your former girlfriend might have untold, catastrophical consequences at any time now. Because what you did was so terribly, terribly wrong. Make no mistake about that.

Seriously, I do not yet see quite how someone would actually "get hurt" as a result of two consenting, legal adults parttaking in responsible sex?

absurd. i dont think Ookla was right for his comment, but neither do I think this comment has any place on these forums. ridiculous. im done trying to keep things cool and mellow since the same 3 or 4 people dont seem to give a crap about the rest of the people wanting to move on from this bullcrap.

im taking an extended break from this garbage. argue away.
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little wilson

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #215 on: January 31, 2009, 01:30:07 AM »
That is a bit spoiler-like, Bookstore!

It's not really the first spoiler to be had on here....It's just one of the first ones for HoA.

And as much as I think that people should probably be completely done with the trilogy to post knowledgeably on here--or at least in relation to the ORIGINAL topic--I'm pretty sure there were a few people who posted who said they were about halfway through with HoA....And therefore this would be HUGE spoiler for them....

So, Bookstore, you should probably edit that particular part out. As funny as I think it is, it should go. Which means that Cyne, you should edit YOUR post that incorporates his quote. If you want to edit it to whatever Bookstore changes his post to, go right ahead, but any modifying Bookstore does will be irrelevant if someone will just get the same spoiler in your post....

And we really should move on to something else. It's distinctly un-fun reading opinion-bashing....
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muboop

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #216 on: January 31, 2009, 02:34:26 AM »
Muboop, I don't see why there would be any problem with you posting further here. The only advice I would give is try not to take posts personally. All we're doing is having an intelligent discussion/debate on sex and sexuality and our own personal opinions on it. Expanding our minds and understanding other peoples opinions never hurt anyone. You only get hurt when you take others' opinions personally, especially when they're not meaning to insult you. Also, you don't necessarily have to focus on one person's comments per post....Or even try to refute everything in one person's long posts (like mine). I know that I was the one who started that with you, but....if you do still want to debate here (which again, I see no problem with), address others and don't focus on just one person....

And good old Firefox. That's actually what I use, and I've got it set up to underline when something's misspelled. I believe you can set it up by going into Tools and then Options and then the Advanced Tab....And it should be that you check the box next to "check my spelling as I type"...at least that's the way it is on mine. Plus, there's a spell check in the "post reply" page on TWG. So you can always use that too.

And the question on Vin and Elend. Ookla already answered it, and I agree with him....He worded it better than I would've (not the first time), and...yeah. I don't really have anything to add to it. There could've been more. I don't see the necessity of it, though.

im sorry, i dont mean to seem rude in saying this, i just cant hold this debate with someone who can see the world as in my opinion black and white!(not i say my opinion :) ) i cant change how i feel, and this fact leads me to get to involved and take it all personally! i just cannot seperate it. im honest enough to admit my flaw. so i will deal with it! i will step back or will say uncalled for stuff or take a side again, im doing me best not to! as i said if anyone wants to continuepm me, i will not address this again otherwise! :)

i wont go furthur into this as i see no need, if you go through my posts carefully i think iv made myself clear!

but in referance as to what you said about it being needed, em i agree and disagree at same time!

i dont think the story needed it. i thin however it would of given the characters more depth and reality? just making them seem more everyday human etc...(that last scentence isnt phrased well as i cannot figure out how to word it correctly, but i hope my meaning gets across. :)


Reaves

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #217 on: January 31, 2009, 02:47:12 AM »

 I mean seriously, sex wouldn't be my first concern if giant blue monsters and dude with spikes for eyes wanted my head.

It would be for me. It would turn me on.
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little wilson

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #218 on: January 31, 2009, 03:09:32 AM »
It would be for me. It would turn me on.

Heheh. Totally....

And Muboop, it might make them more regular humans, but they're not. They have psychological hang-ups, both of them, as someone else already pointed out. So the fact that there's so little fits, I think. Now, if they were normal--say, Vin didn't have her trust issues, and Elend was more like the other nobles--then yes, I would say more sexual stuff would be necessary. Not a whole lot (since the plot really doesn't center on that, but it would be more characteristic of the characters themselves), but more than there currently is.

And yes, you have made yourself clear on your opinions. I believe most of us have.

Oh, and about that travel thing. It's only 25 days, so it's not really all THAT long, but for me, it's quite a while. I've been out of the US once and that was about 8 years ago, to British Columbia, Canada (which I'm not entirely sure should even count as leaving the US... ::))...I haven't even been on an airplane in 10 or 11 years, since I went to DC....it's sad.
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muboop

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #219 on: January 31, 2009, 03:11:28 AM »

 I mean seriously, sex wouldn't be my first concern if giant blue monsters and dude with spikes for eyes wanted my head.

It would be for me. It would turn me on.

heroic answer! :P

but think about it guys, when war is looming or in progress there is a boom in baby births as people feel the need to get their dna passed on, they might die so need baby now etc... i cannot find where i found the proof for this so if anyone else can provide much appreciated!

either way, chance of death increases child birht! as much as you say its last thing on mind... is it really?

poo i say! id definately go with my genes and give it a go with mt girlfriend! anything else would be just ignoring my instincts! plus im probably dead anyway :P

muboop

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #220 on: January 31, 2009, 03:17:01 AM »
It would be for me. It would turn me on.

Heheh. Totally....

And Muboop, it might make them more regular humans, but they're not. They have psychological hang-ups, both of them, as someone else already pointed out. So the fact that there's so little fits, I think. Now, if they were normal--say, Vin didn't have her trust issues, and Elend was more like the other nobles--then yes, I would say more sexual stuff would be necessary. Not a whole lot (since the plot really doesn't center on that, but it would be more characteristic of the characters themselves), but more than there currently is.

And yes, you have made yourself clear on your opinions. I believe most of us have.

Oh, and about that travel thing. It's only 25 days, so it's not really all THAT long, but for me, it's quite a while. I've been out of the US once and that was about 8 years ago, to British Columbia, Canada (which I'm not entirely sure should even count as leaving the US... ::))...I haven't even been on an airplane in 10 or 11 years, since I went to DC....it's sad.

I'm sorry to hear you don't get to travel as much! :) i really am! i believe it is something to really be experienced! oddly enough Canada is one of the few places i have not travelled to.

BTW i don't mean to seem condescending on this issue, however i do feel the need to state, i haven't been pampered at the same time! mum is a nurse and dad a teacher, we aren't rich. i have worked for everything i have gotten and every holiday iv gone on.

i know about the hang ups etc... but i don't know! i don't thin its the same still! :) regardless about the hangups the urges would still be there. i say this out of knowledge about people with hangups. my ex was a rape victim. this was sad, (for record i never pushed anything on her ) she once told me she has the same urges and wants as everyone else, just she cannot follow through!

if this was the case, i think the would of been an excellent area for brandon to explore!

Vin and elend getting over these blocks to fully let themselves fall in love etc... i realise he may not have time and would possibly detract form story but i cannot help but wonder! :)

(also i need to say i realise everyone react to bad experience different ways, but who's to say they wouldn't act this way)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 03:19:32 AM by muboop »

little wilson

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #221 on: January 31, 2009, 03:53:33 AM »
Birth rates.....

Site I used:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005067.html

Live births in 1930(before WWII)--2.6 mil
1935 --2.3 mil
1940--2.5 mil
1945--2.8 mil
1950--3.6 mil
1955--4.1 mil

Here's a graph:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/SamuelBernard2.gif

And I personally think they DID fall in love fully. They overcame their problems together. And I think the way the characters are portrayed in the book pretty effectively shows that they wouldn't act that way....
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #222 on: January 31, 2009, 04:00:41 AM »
Universal truth? Do you say that with a straight face?
Come now, don't tell me that that statement appearing in one of my posts surprises you, given what I've posted before. (In other words, yes, I say it with a straight face.)

However, your sarcasm in the next paragraph misconstrues what I said. I'm not going to bother to say it again, so if you want to understand (and I think you don't) you can go back and read again what I said.

To answer your "serious" question with what someone already said in this thread earlier, though phrased differently, if person A is such an awesome lover that everyone he sleeps with compares their future partners with him and they don't measure up, making them unhappy whereas otherwise they would have been perfectly satisfied with the sexual ability of the person they eventually marry (who is more compatible with them in every other way than person A is): That's hurt.

The point is that sex is a serious issue with lasting consequences you just can't guess at in the moment. It has emotional and social effects on your partner that you can't predict. Now, in any sexual relationship where both parties have already slept around a lot, I think the fact that they're having sex probably won't have any particularly profound effect compared to any of the previous encounters, but the initial ones can set the tone for the rest of their life. See, for example, girls who are sexually abused growing up and can never thereafter form a healthy sexual attachment. It's just common sense that even in non-abuse situations someone who gains their sexual experience by having sex with a bunch of different people will become imprinted with that pattern and will have difficulty moving to a monogamous relationship that lasts decades and decades. Now, if you think extramarital sex is A-OK or never ever intend to get married and only have sex with people who never intend to get married, then maybe promiscuity will work for you, but it's not ideal and it will not contribute to the advancement of society.

Karen (my wife reading over my shoulder) says she has read studies (such as the one referred to here) where women on college campuses who are pushed to have non-committal sex/"hooking up" (by peers whether male or female or by the media, etc.) are finding that they have real serious emotional consequences and the girl can't figure out why, because she has no conscious emotional investment in this guy—she just slept with him to gratify her sexual needs. But the hormones released by a woman's body during sex make the woman bond with the man, and if either the woman or the man takes off after that, the woman will feel like she's leaving a piece of herself behind.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 04:09:35 AM by Ookla The Mok »
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muboop

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #223 on: January 31, 2009, 04:32:01 AM »
Birth rates.....

Site I used:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005067.html

Live births in 1930(before WWII)--2.6 mil
1935 --2.3 mil
1940--2.5 mil
1945--2.8 mil
1950--3.6 mil
1955--4.1 mil

Here's a graph:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/SamuelBernard2.gif

And I personally think they DID fall in love fully. They overcame their problems together. And I think the way the characters are portrayed in the book pretty effectively shows that they wouldn't act that way....



i misread this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-World_War_II_baby_boom

it says still do that there was a baby boom in states during a nd before war, and it continued until after.

however it states that it is mainly a post war thing.

regardless, appreciate if you do not refer to only one country? just because it makes things to specific! im going for general things(for future referance of course)
 
just because your use of a singel country could be argued agianst my use of say america and it drags to an unecesay debate that neither wins!

however i concede that point,
but i still stand by my second of those two posts, and i would like to see your opinions on those??

everybody i have to say i dont know if this thread is going anywhere.
both sides seem to make quite resonable statements and long posts, followed by the other side picking out a particular area in said post and exploiting the faults in it. all the while never answerin the rest of each post!

we seem to only argue over eachothers flaws in statements?

i dont think this will lead to a real debate if we only pick the areas we cna win without ever conceding those we cannot?


little wilson

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Re: Sex and sexuality in the Mistborn series...missing?
« Reply #224 on: January 31, 2009, 04:39:04 AM »
Most of the time I have been addressing the post as a whole....leaving out the irrelevant bits, but to everything that matters....

And I'm not sure what you want me to address. The death-birth relation? Or something in the second post? It sounds like it's something in the second post, but I can't find anything other than what I already mentioned--about Vin and Elend.
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