Timewaster's Guide Archive

AWWWWWW MOIRAINE?!?!?!?

I did NOT want that to happen!!!!

LOL In case you guys didn't know already, I finished Fires of Heaven. I have much to say. First off is that this is definitely the best book in this series so far IMO. Plenty of action, story, twists, turns, and an AMAZING ending.

-Okay let's get right to it. Moiraine: Again, I really didn't want this to happen. It wasn't a HUGE surprise because there was some definite forshadowing of her death throughout this book that I picked up on. It just really stinks because her and Rand FINALLY came to an understanding in this book. Moiraine was a true anchor for these characters as much as they disliked her. Her advice was always priceless and spot on. It may not have been what the characters wanted to hear, but it's what they needed to hear. I imagine it's similar to Obi-Wan Kenobi dying. Moiraine's death was certainly heroic. That whole scene where Lanfear attacks Rand with murderous jealousy was awesome. She skins Kadere because she's so upset about hearing Rand slept with another woman. That's rough!
 The way RJ wrote Lan's reaction was heartbreaking. I can't imagine what he was feeling. Then he left so soon!! Moiraine bonded Lan to a Green sister in the event she died. I REALLY don't want this to be the end of Lan's participation in the story. I have a feeling it isn't.
 I also KIND of have a suspicion this might not be the end of Moiraine and Lanfear's story. (It might be wishful thinking, I'm still reeling from this event) Okay, so they fell through the terangrael right? Now this was the same one Mat went through in Rhuiden and saw the scary people with pointed teeth who tried to kill him. Lan said he couldn't feel their connection anymore.....maybe traveling to another dimension would sever it?? Maybe not because Moiraine went into another terengrael doorway with Rand and Mat in another book and Lan never mentioned a disturbance in their connection. This is driving me nuts. LOL I hate the thought of Moiraine alone somewhere stuck between Lanfear and those creatures. I still don't totally understand why those people in the terengrael door way were so evil, as opposed to the friendly ones Rand encountered when he went through the other one. Besides, the one Moiraine pulled Lanfear into wasn't destroyed I think. ::sigh:: A lot to dwell on and that's only one subject. Man, I really am loving these books LOL.

-Okay, before Moiraine's death, Rand is full of fury and hell bent on killing Rahvin because he thinks that Forsaken has killed Morgase. Rand later resumes this quest. I'm glad he still went to confront him. I thought Moiraine's death would stop things cold and leave Rahvin for another book. I have to say that this whole final 20 pages was nothing short of groundbreaking!! Rand and the Aeil battling Trollocs and Fades. Rahvin attacking them with lightning and killing Mat, Aviendha, and Asmodean (had to read that 5 times before I believed it.) Rand's battle with Rahvin in the palace and following him into the dreamworld. Meanwhile, Nyneave has Moghedian leashed with an a'dam in the dream world and forces her to help Nyneave go help Rand. MAN this whole scene was awesome. So many things happening all at once. My eyes were GLUED to this book!!! They way they all managed to defeat Rahvin together was perfect. I do wish Rand and Nyneave could have talked for longer and have had a more in depth convo than the one they had. But I understand she was rushing him out because of how dangerous that world was to him. Also, I find it odd that he didn't even acknowledge Moghedian. Oh well.
 Now, since Rand used balefire with FULL force to kill Rahvin, Mat Aviendha and Asmodean were alive and well when Rand went back out front. He erased Rahvin pretty far back I'd say. That was not very smart of Rand as I imagine there could have been many other consequences (I think there may be more I don't know of yet) Finally, after all is said and done and they are all settled down in the palace, Rand speakes with a man who has brought 9,000 soldiers from Mayene to serve him loyally. Rand accepts. However the conversation turns to Mazrim Taim. The false Dragon that has escaped and returned to his army. Rand gives him amnesty...of a sort. An offer of alliance. This would not have been my first choice, but the more I think of it the more it seems like a good idea (depending on Mazrim's character...I haven't met him yet) Rand declares that all men who are found to channel have the option to join him. They will not be executed or gentled. A few extra male channellers for Tarmon Gaidon wouldn't be a bad thing LOL. I'm interested to see how this pans out.

Now the loose ends:
- Who killed Asmodean??? He was killed out of nowhere after just being ressurrected. I don't even have an idea who it might be besides one of the other Forsaken.
-Morgase and Tallanvor.........a future together?? I can see it, but not before they have to repair her old alliances and retain her throne. Oh yeah, and show everyone she's not really dead.
-Nyneave and Moghedian: This was the big cliffhanger for me!! Moghedian spoke a little too much and Nyneave deciphered that she is one of the Aes Sedai in Salidar with them. Nice!!! Nyneave knows who she is too but it left me hanging. She makes Moggy drink forkroot to put her into a deep sleep and says "See you when I wake up" Now THIS I want to see. I'd also like to see how Nyneave will explain this all to the Aes Sedai there, as she was not supposed to be in the dream world in the first place (she was secretly training Siuan.)

Sorry this was so long but I had a lot to say. Much more has happened since my last update but I decided to only talk about the ending as there was so much there. I have to go to Barnes and Noble to get Lord of Chaos which I ordered last week. I can't wait to see how they tie up the loose ends. ESPECIALLY finding out who Moghedian was in Salidar. I couldn't imagine waiting a year or two for that answer. All you fans who did have to wait must REALLY REALLY hate me now LOL.

Thanks again for the input guys. You're all really helpful and I hope you continue enjoying this thread. I'll keep you all updated!!
-Joe

Update guys! I'm on page 460 now. Almost done! I was going to wait until I finished but you guys seemed to be getting restless. Man you people are needy!! j/k

Okay. This is honestly my favorite book out of the series so far. No offense to all the people who said SR was their favorite. Maybe it's because SR set so many things up to be good!

Okay....
-Rand and all the Aeil tribes he's gathered have chased Couladin and his tribes all the way to Carhein.

-Aviendha has certainly evolved very much during these stories. Ran'ds camp is attacked by Darkfriends and she shoots fire out of her hands and kills a Drakghar to save Rand's life. Then, after Rand walks in on her naked, she somehow makes a Traveling weave and winds up in some arctic land. Rand saves her life and makes an igloo......and then they sleep together!! One of the best scenes of the entire series IMO. Aviendha telling Rand she can't hold back anymore...grabbing his hair...WOW. I kinda saw this coming, just not this soon. I bet she has some guilt with this and her friendship with Elayne. Then the two run into Seanchan at the gateway home. (Where the hell were they?) I liked this scene, but I did wish they saved the two damanes and killed the leader. I'm VERY interested to see where their story goes from here. Also, Asmodean showed that he really is Rand's friend by not closing the gateway even though he could have. This I didn't see coming. I keep looking for hints that he might betray Rand, but they're not there. I can't wait until Rand finally confronts Couladin. It is unfortunately taking a long time to get there.

-Suian, Min, Leane, and Logain have found the gathering of the Blues in Salidar. I'm glad that they're safe now. I had this bad feeling that something bad might happen to them before they got there. Gareth Bryne has arrived there too. I guess they think they are going to form some sort of army to take the Tower back, while simultaneously maintaining the illusion to the rest of the world that the Tower isn't broken. A tough task indeed. I like where this is going.

-Moghedian has personally taken control of the Black Ajah. WOW did she put Liandran in her place. I've been waiting to see that happen (although I wanted it to be Nyneave who did it...but this is cool too lol) Moghedian seems really ticked that Nyneave almost stilled her (wouldn't you be?) and really wants some revenge. Liandran was foolish to try battling Moghedian. This is a good storyline to follow. I'm loving the developments here.

-Nyneave, Elayne, Thom, and Juilen have taken up with with a traveling group of performers and are acting in the entertainment to hide until they can get to Salidar. They are also running from Galad because he is a Whitecloak now. I think it's hilarious that even Nyneave is struck by how good looking he is LOL. She says it's "unfair" how beautiful he is. I wish a girl would say that about me hahahahaha. Anyway, another great scene is the one where Moghedian interrupts Nyneave's meeting with Birgitte in the dream world. I honestly thought Nyneave was done for until Birgette shot Moghedian with an arrow. Awesome scene!!! Somehow Birgette is brought into the real world and Elayne saved her life by bonding with her to make Birgitte her Warder. Very interesting. Now, Birgitte entertains with the troup by shooting apples off Nyneave's head. Now THAT is a funny sight. Last, they are on there way to Salidar.

-Foolish Liandran tried to capture Moghedian after she woke up from the dream world with an arrow wound. Moghedian showed her who's who even though she was injured. She somehow blocked Liandran's access to the Power with a weave and tied it off. She didn't still her, but left it so that Liandran will have to find somebody skilled enough to untie that weave to ever touch the Source again. This scene left me breathless. I also have a new appreciation for how strong Nyneave is with the Power for overpowering Moghedian.

-Morgase realized she has been being manipulated and been forced to exile her allies. She escapes with Lini to find her TRUE allies and take back her crown. This is an unexpected storyline. Interesting though. I'd like to see how this pans out. Especially when she finds out that one of the Forsaken is responsible for all this LOL.

-Still no Perrin. I DO miss his storyline, but it isn't oppressive because I am enjoying everything else in this book so much.
I have more to say but this post is long enough already and I have to go eat supper. Again, I'll keep you guys updated and thank you for reading!! I appreciate your comments.
-Joe

Quote from: JoeC on February 17, 2009, 10:57:02 PM

- Prologue was good, but the meeting of the remaining Forsaken at the end was SUPER cool.

Let's see, at that point Aginor, Balthamel, Be'lal, and Ishamael are all dead and Asmodean is captive.  Lanfear, Mesaana, Graendal, Semirhage, Moghedian, Demandred, Sammael, and Rahvin remain at large.  Huh, now that I think about it it's rather interesting how the casualties are uniformly male at that point, and there are enough of them to reverse which gender holds the majority among the Forsaken.

Hmmmmmm.....Ishamael??? Was he Ba'alzamon?? I know Rand thought he killed him at the end of Dragon Reborn but Moiraine said it wasn't him. That it was just a body, possibly one of the Forsaken. Is that who it was??

Update! Finished Shadow Rising this morning. VERY satisfied.

  Although a lot of it went on too long, this book was an overall very very good read. Luckily for me I bought Fires of Heaven at the same time I bought SR so I can't start on it right away tonight at work. (Ooooh I bet all you people that had to wait between books must really hate me LOL)
Okay. Perrin successfully lead the Two Rivers people to victory over the Trollocs and the Fade's. Perrin is truly growing and I honestly felt bad for him when he sent Faile away because he didn't expect to win this fight. When she came back with the people of Devin Ride, oooh boy THAT'S devotion! LOL. Very good battle scenes, although I do prefer more descriptive fight scenes like Brandon's, I did enjoy this one. The drama with Perrin and the Whitecloaks actually got interesting. Despite all he has done they still call him Shadowspawn. Perrin would have actually turned himself in after the battle...IF they helped. But they didn't so he didn't. Yet, the fact that he would keep his word even if it meant his death was a true indication that he is the best developed character in these books so far IMHO. I'm glad he and Faile got married too.
  Nyneave and Elayne successfully infiltrated the Panarch's palace. Elayne schooled one of the Black Ajah who was making Amathera sing dirty songs (man oh man are they cruel) buy surprising her and tying her up with air. Nyneave battled Moghedian in one of the best scenes of the book!! I really didn't see this coming, and even less did I see Nyneave winning this fight. She really is powerful when she's angry!! She almost stilled a Forsaken!! BTW I'm really loving the personality differences between the Forsaken and I'm glad they are not all fanatic drones. Some even have their own plans (Lanfear is sneaky!) So Nyneave managed to get the bracelets and necklace that could leash a male who can channel.  She wants to throw it in the deepest part of the ocean and I really hope she does because I don't want to see that thing around Rand's neck. They all got away on Domon's ship. I wish they could have captured or killed some Black Ajah. They are certainly still a concern now that they're all still out there. I think one did kill herself with the balefire te'rangal.
  Rand revealed the truth to the Aiel in front of the clan chiefs. They were ALL Tinkers back in the day. I got that when I re-read Rand's journey in Rhuiden. THAT'S why that other Aeil in there with him was clawing his eyes out. I honestly don't think that was the smartest move on Rand's part, at least not this early. But, the cat's out of the bag now. Couladin (sp?) was a surprise when HE claimed to be the Dragon. Where did he get the dragons on his arm btw??? Oh well. Rand proved he was the one with probably the best scene in the book!! Making it rain??! I never thought of that!! The Aiel worship water and I never figured to use the power to bring it to them. Then he made some kind of bubble around himself and Lanfear showed up. She was NOT happy that he had ruined her plans (still not sure exactly what they are). When he hears of Asmodean in Rhuiden he opens a door with the power and chases after him. I think this is the Traveling Weave that they talked about, but I'm not sure because they didn't call it that.
  Anyway, the fight between Rand and Asmodean in Rhuiden was awesome!! It's a shame all those te'rengals got destroyed but Rand has surely improved his mastery of the Power. When Rand and Asmodean are both holding the te'rengal and dueling with the Power was intense!! Luckily, Rand had the little te'rengal in his pocket to give him just the slightest edge. After almost gentling Asmodean (again a Forsaken defeated!!) Lanfear shows up and actually convinces Rand to keep him alive and actually as a teacher!!! This I would not do. Not for all the knowledge in the world! Bad bad idea. This is a guy who has had incredible power for thousands of years and is all of a sudden defeated and becomes a servant basically?? No way. You know this guy will be plotting and scheming to get his revenge. I guess it's up to Rand to remain one step ahead of him. VERY compelling. It's a shame that, when he returned to the Aeil, many of them had left with Couladin.  I honestly don't know how he's going to solve this problem. Some of these Aeil will just not accept him.
  There's so much more I could write but this is long enough LOL. I liked this book despite it's length. The characters and the situations have really evolved. Some very unexpected things have happened. Elaida stilled the Amyrlin!!! Ooooh I can't wait to find out Moiraine's reaction when she finds this out. I know her and Siuan Sanche are old friends. Not enough of Min in this book BTW. I like her. I'm glad she's helping Siuan but I don't know what they can do about the White Tower.
  I'm actually going to take Moiraine's side on her little tiffs with Rand. None of the three boys trust her, and their distrust borders on hatred. I understand they feel that she plucked them from their cozy lives and brought them into this and hopes to control them. I understand they are worried about being lapdogs for the White Tower. I truly don't feel that is her intention. The scene where she tells Rand "I want you to confide in me. I want to help you." was kind of sad. Moiraine is actually opening up to him (took her long enough) and I really get the sense that she fights for his best interest and the best interests of the world. I personally would tell her everything. About the dreams, Lanfear, all of it. She is a strong character and would truly be an anchor for someone in as difficult a position as Rand is in. She could help with his confusion. Though, I admit, she does need to be more forward and stop with the riddles and games. Aes Sedai or not, if she wants cooperation she should give it to. I see stubbornness on both sides.
Well, this has gone on long enough lol. Once again I'm glad you guys are enjoying this thread and I know many of you have been waiting for my opinion on this book so here it is!! I've got plenty to say about it as it was a LONG book so if any of you have any questions feel free to ask. I'm going to go ice my fingers now, they're numb! LOL. Have a good day!
-Joe

Quote from: JoeC on February 07, 2009, 12:35:56 AM

Lanfear totally totally schooled Nyneave and Elayne in the use of the Power. They thought it was Liandran and were all ready to capture her and then Lanfear walked in and she is so powerful that they were helpless. Somehow she managed to make Nyneave and Elayne completely under her control (Spirit??) and made them tell her everything!! Why they were there and who they were with...now she knows it all!! LOL  VERY great scene.

I thought it was Moghedian.

Whoops! I don't even know who that is yet. LOL  I re-read it and they actually don't mention the character by name, I just figured it was Lanfear because it was female and had superb control of the power and talked of the other Forsaken. My mistake guys!

No problem Shaggy. I guess I can edit my first post to let people know. I made it past page 300 last night! They are in Rhuiden (sp?) Mat and Rand are having some VERY odd adventures there. I found the scene where Rand was seeing important events in Aeil history very confusing. I kind of got it, but I kind of didn't, you know? Maybe it will be better explained later. I really wish he didn't leave Callandor in the stone of Tear. I feel like something bad will happen. Egwene, Nyneave, and Thom set off for Tanchico and I haven't heard about Perrin since he left for Two Rivers. Not much to update. I guess this is the part of the book where everybody goes their separate ways and has their own adventures. I like learning more about the Aeil, even though they are very confusing too. I wish RJ explained their style and culture more thoroughly as you experience it in the book. Much like how Brandon did with the kandra. I like when authors make new cultures, just not when we are thrust into that culture as if we already know how they live and why they speak the way they do. It's a little frustrating at times but there's no way I'm getting down on this book. It's getting very exciting. Thanks again guys!
-Joe

I suppose it's up to the individual author to decide if it's relevant to the story or a distraction. Brandon did a good job describing Vin and Elend's relationship and maybe a sex scene would have stopped the story cold in it's tracks. Who knows?? I could go either way. Some book I've read have some pretty graphic sex scenes, like a couple of Stephen King's books do. They fit the story and served their purpose. Not all books are alike. So, I don't necessarily think it was "missing" from Mistborn. More that it just didn't belong.