Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Writing Group => Topic started by: Nessa on February 12, 2006, 04:14:29 PM
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The writing group wants me to make my main antagonist 'creepy.' I have no difficulty writing the rest of the story, that's easy and fun. But making the antagonists truly nasty, I've discovered, is rather painful. I can come up with truly awful stuff, but I'm not enjoying actually writing it. It creeps me out just to type this stuff out.
How does one portray a truly nasty antagonist in a realistic way?
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How NOT to do it: Don't just have everyone spend the story talking about how evil the character is. It doesn't work. Inkheart is a good example of this. The "evil" character is constantly being referred to as this monster, but he never actually *does* anything evil. So I feel no tension in the book, and I don't respect any of the main characters, because they seem to be terrified for no reason at all.
Actions speak louder than words. Creepy characters do creepy things. If they don't do creepy things, I don't believe they're creepy.
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Fish, have you ever read Laurie Halse Anderson's Speak? I'd say that's one example in which the antagonist is definitely creepy, but we don't know what he did till the very end. He does a couple things that creep you out over the course of the book, though, that justify why Melinda is so freaked out by the boy, so that's probably not a good example. But anyway, my point is that even if they don't do anything in the course of the narrative, they do need to have done something sometime that makes the reader understand why he's bad, even if the explanation is a long time in coming. In the case of Speak, it's the whole point of the book, the why. (I'm trying to dance around exactly what it was so that if people haven't read it, I don't give it away. Please let me know if I've said too much.)
And I think you just have to get past the creepy and remember as you're writing it that you have a purpose in writing it--that eventually good will win out (I hope!). :)
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Creepy characters do creepy things.
That pretty much pegs it.
Now, in my mind there's a difference between "creepy" and "truly nasty," which means a character can be creepy without being truly nasty. (Of course, it's possible to be both.)
As a quick example, a stalker can be creepy even if he never actually harms anyone. On the other hand, a mobster can be truly nasty without being creepy.
So perhaps you don't need to have your character do anything truly nasty. If you just have him do things that make him weirdly obsessed, that might be "creepy" enough.
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Creepy characters are the ones who you're afraid of because you don't know what they'll do to you. Scary, nasty characters are scary because you know (or have seen) what they are capable of doing to you.
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I agree with Tekiel, but would add that they have to do unpredictable things, then, that are in at least some measure bad, because if they don't, then you can't be afraid of what they might do--i.e. Inkheart.
I haven't read Speak, but I've seen it and been interested in reading it. Is it worth a read?
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Could you give us a vague synopsis of the plot of your book Nessa, or at least give us a brief synopsis of the character's role in the story? It is hard to generalize, both because what is creepy in one age and world is not in another, and because some strategies work better for Sauron-like villains than for say Hrathen-like villains.
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Synopsis: Main character Lysa is the protagonist and has powers. The main antagonists are necromancers, and the head bad-guy, Drakken, is a major nasty dude. (I won't give more specific than that at this point unless the reading group wants spoilers!) I'm still pinning down the necromancer specifics, but basically they kill people to make themselves stronger magically.
The writing group wants more specifics about the things Drakken has done so that when he arrives on the scene, that the readers will be properly freaked out and scared for Lysa's well being.
I know what he's done (don't want to give spoilers) to a small extent, so I need to write some proper terrible stuff he's done. Only, it's freaking me out to write it. My simple Mormon girl sensibilities are in danger of corruption. But I still want help.
As for creepy vs nasty. I need him to be more nasty. The writing group said 'creepy', but that's not really the feel I'm going for. I don't want it to feel like Sauron, all-powerful and completely corrupt. Drakken has motives that make sense to him, and he's more rounded out than that (ok, can't say more, spoilers...).
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If you want nasty-creepy, I suggest some variation on "I'm doing this for your own good." (Cheesy example: "I'm sorry to have to torture you to death, but you're becoming part of something greater: me.")
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I think it's a good thing it's creeping you out.
That's just my 2¢.
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I haven't read Speak, but I've seen it and been interested in reading it. Is it worth a read?
Definitely. It's the voice that makes it worth the read. I think it's right up your alley, too, MsFish. You know how it ends, having seen the movie, but the book does a much better job of internal dialogue because in the book Melinda really doesn't speak *at all* for almost the entire school year. She's talkative in the movie compared to the book. The movie just can't get the flavor of her internal voice the way that the book can, just due to the nature of the movie.
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If that's the case then I'm damned. I love to write creepy/disturbing stuff. It's generally my favorite part to write.
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My creepiest villain (imo) was based on Batman with a dash of Venom tossed in.
He had this strict code of honor, and a vendetta against someone who had wronged him.
But this honor thing was mostly his justification for a selfish, violent personality. He claimed he only hunted criminals, but he really enjoyed cutting them up and beating them down.
I showed this by having him stumble on a rape about to be in progress in one of his first scenes. First thing he does is take out hte baddies. Then, noticing the condition of the woman, who is thanking him and trying to cover up, he nearly commits the crime he just prevented, stopped only when his faithful protege shows up.
Does that jive with "creepy?" and if so, does it help to have a clear example?
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Hm. Yes, SE, that helps a little. I guess I'm just fishing for ideas. I have a few, but they need rounding out. I will need to research a little, I think. I've already had to research about demons, which was something I never thought I'd have to do.
Back to work for me.
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Synopsis: Main character Lysa is the protagonist and has powers. The main antagonists are necromancers, and the head bad-guy, Drakken, is a major nasty dude.
Nessa,
Just out of curiosity, did you purposely make your villian's name the same as one from Disney's Kim Possible?
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Crap. No! Of course not. Now I have to change it. It's not easy coming up with good bad-guy names.
Thanks, Tink, for the intel.
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I think Finger Lickin' Good would be an excellent name for a villain
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Write in a backstory about a person who used to be his friend, but whom he actually ended up killing for the power it would bring him. Show that he enjoys killing not only for the power, but just for the sake of killing as well.
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Write in a backstory about a person who used to be his friend,, but whom he actually ended up killing for the power it would bring him. Show that he enjoys killing not only for the power, but just for the sake of killing as well.
What's wrong with him killing only for the power?
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Greed is far too normal, it occurs every day. People are afraid of what they do not understand, and sadism, and taking pleasure from death are things that very few people have any basis for understanding.
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I don't know, Archon--that seems to be the easy way out. I think it would be far better--but more challenging--to make a creepy character that's completely understandable. I find it very creepy when I can see how someone would do something despicable--when I see a piece of myself in that action.
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I agree with Parker
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I was under the impression that she didn't want a character that people can relate to. The more people relate to a character, the more they empathize with that character, so if you want a really nasty character, you don't usually want the reader to be able to relate with them. There are, of course, exceptions, depending on what you want to do with the character. If they are going to end up doing something heroic, then you want to have some base for that. If they are supposed to be symbolic of certain human flaws, like greed, or vengefulness, then again it might be suitable to have the reader relate to the character. But if you just want a really scary villain, then for that type of character, you don't want them to be relatable (in my opinion), because their unpredictability, and their overwhelming cruelty is typically a large part of what drives the story forward. This is why I wanted to know more about the story before I commented, because it is hard to know what kind of character Nessa is going for without knowing what role they are supposed to play.
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True--looking back at her post, she did stipulate nasty more than creepy. I guess I'm just focused right now on making a believable villain on my current novel, and I don't want a stock "nasty" one. I really like Hrathen in Elantris. Very believable, unique, nasty and creepy--but I could understand him. He wasn't being nasty just for nasty's sake. I find that far more intriguing as a character than any Sauron or Wicked Witch of the West or puppy-dog killer. But books can certainly get their drive elsewhere--they can have a typical stock villain and focus on making other aspects unique and compelling.
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I knew a guy very briefly, at a job I had for one whole week, who wrote the coolest creepy stalker poetry you can imagine. That's not even a real genre, but he made it one just by sheer volume and quality. They were all first person conversations, the stalker talking to his victim; very Browning-esque. I wish I still had some of those.
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one thing that is instinctually frightenning of course is the unkown, I'm not saying make him mysterious... but in the way he moves and responds to stimuli, his actions should be quick and sudden, kind of like wild animal, they should be aggressive, and often more so than necessary for a given situation. also there shouldn't be any words, just actions, quick brutal and impulsive reflexes to all input. those guys always freak me out, you never know what they're about to do, but you always have a feeling that it's going to be bad, and that it's going to be directed toward you...