Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: jdowntown on February 18, 2010, 07:08:27 PM
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While watching the new episodes of Lost, I have come to think the plot is a close parallel to The Well of Ascension
In summary:
1. Both have 2 fighting semi-god like characters(Jacob and Smoke-man)(Leras and Ati)
2. They both started out as regular humans (at least smokeman claimed he was)
3. The bad one is stuck and wants to escape. (The island or the Well)
4. The bad one though powerful needs help from humans to help him escape.
5. The good one is incapacitated or killed.
6. Though incapacitated or killed, the good one is still able to have limited communication to further his plans.
7. The good one is/was seeking for a successor.
What do you guys think?
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that is a big stretch...
as a side note. i like lost, but I can never watch the broadcast. I have never seen a show with commercials every 7 minutes. it kills the pacing. I have to DVR it and fast forward.
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Has lost become a fantasy type show? Wow, it's changed a lot since the beginning. o.e What the heck is smokeman?
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Has lost become a fantasy type show?
I would actually love to see this happen.
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it was called the smoke monster. it is sort of sci-fi/fantasy/mystery/everyone has issues
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Yeah, I was definitely getting a strong Preservation/Ruin vibe from Lost.
Has lost become a fantasy type show? Wow, it's changed a lot since the beginning. o.e What the heck is smokeman?
Yeah. I recommend you get a hold of the previous seasons from Netflix or a local library or something. Great show. No way you'd know what is going on if you started now though ;D.
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Honestly, I've felt a lot of the same things--namely, that the Jacob/Man-in-black conflict is very much a Ruin/Preservation conflict, where Gods are at work, using people as chess pieces, and nobody knows that's what's going on until near the end.
I don't think it's any kind of stretch to say the conflict this season is a lot like that of Well of Ascension and Hero of Ages, where the concept of being a "candidate" or the "Hero of Ages" comes into question. Is the Hero of Ages concept a big con made to just serve some God's end? Are forces greater than us manipulating our decisions?
It'd be a huge feather in Sanderson's cap if he could get Cuse and Lindelof to admit some sort of inspiration from the Mistborn series, but I've got a feeling that all three of 'em just happen to be playing with the same Man vs. Gods meta-story. Good stories both, though, for sure.
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The developed the ending to lost 2-3 years ago.
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The developed the ending to lost 2-3 years ago.
WoA was published 3 years ago.
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I quit watching when the fat guy gained weight.
I would say its a good chance one or more of the writers could have been 'influenced' by the Mistborn trilogy.
Maybe they owe Brandon some royalties? But he would probably have a tough time proving it.
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I wondered about the fat guy for a while. If he was really on that island he would have lost 100 pounds with all that walking around and lack of fatty foods. Then he would have gotten fat again when he went home.
asking a guy that large to lose wait may be tough, plus I think he is likeable as a fat guy.
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! !SPOILER WARNING! ! (i'd put it in the title for people who havent watched the new season that actually want to.)
UGH! Lost is a total rip off! They stole the story from Brandon! Boooo Lost! Yaaaaaay Brandon! :)
I can see similarities, but then again, the idea of gods fighting and using humans to get what they want is older then brandon's source. Religion discusses it, Greek gods, Roman gods. Nothing new per se. But definitely suspicious!
You also forgot one thing!
8. They both use bodies of water for "healing".
Now there is no proof that the well in Lost is a god, but when Jacob dies, it changes color and doesn't work as supposed to.
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What will probably happen is the producers of Lost will claim the Mistborn movie stole from them. I think Tor should have it's lawyers give them a call.
http://www.brandonsanderson.com/blog/856/Mistborn-Movie-News
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The developed the ending to lost 2-3 years ago.
WoA was published 3 years ago.
And Hero of Ages was written in early 2006.
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Lost has always been a fantasy show. It has never been a "Robinson Crusoe" type drama. The basic elements coming to fruition now were all introduced by the first three episodes of the first season - the light versus dark game "game", the smoke monster, the walking dead, the whispering in the jungle etc. That was in 2004. I think it is a big stretch to try and claim that they based this on WoA. I have, however, no problems in seeing the similarities, and actually did see quite many of them in the course of earlier seasons. If Sanderson has been an influence on Cuse and Lindelof, I am sure they will acknowledge it, as they have acknowledged plenty of their other inspirations. I just do not think it is the case in a major way, as I believe them when they say that they have "always viewed Lost as a show with a beginning, middle and end". They claim they have known the ending all along, and I am prone to believe them. I think it is much more of a safe bet to say that Sanderson and Lost have touched upon some common themes. It is not as if Sanderson has the copyright on water with healing capabilities, water/nature symbolising the status of a more cosmic struggle, and gods manifesting in the form of black smoke.
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I call BS on their claim. It's incredibly clear that they've been making the thing up as they go. Disappointing, since the first season showed so much potential and had great execution for much of it. But the show jumped the shark pretty early in the second season.
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I dunno... just because you have a beginning, middle, and end in mind from the start, doesn't mean you can't make stuff up as you go along between those points. Probably not entirely the best idea when writing television, though...
Then again, I've never seen Lost. I really have no idea what I'm talking about ^_^
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The dark god thing made out of dark smoke in the latest episode instantly reminded of ruin in his dark smokiness. Both also turn into their smokie forms when they get angry, and take on the appearance of dead people ;)
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I call BS on their claim. It's incredibly clear that they've been making the thing up as they go. Disappointing, since the first season showed so much potential and had great execution for much of it. But the show jumped the shark pretty early in the second season.
I, on the other hand, call BS on those claims. I do not think you have much foundation for the things you say here. The show demonstrates quite good planning on most fronts. The mythology - the Dharma initiative, history of the island, the smoke monster, the cosmic conflict, the false visions - is consistent, both on first and subsequent viewings. The quality of plotting and dialogue is high, for an entertainment show. There may be one or two slips of continuity, but that is the worst they may be accused of.
However, if you would rather believe they had read an advance copy of HoA when they planned the final 48 episodes back in 2007, be my guest...
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I never said anything about HoA or WoA. I think it highly unlikely they read Brandon's books.
My foundation is that I watched the show from the beginning and loved it until it became unbearable. The characterization really started to suck. When people learned and grew too much, the writers either killed them or hit the reset button and made them start acting like they had never learned that stuff or grew from it. (Not as bad as Heroes was with this, but still bad.)
If you never had any problems with that, great for you.
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Hmm. Now I'll be looking for Mistborn comparisons as I watch Lost. And at the rate I'm cruising through the episodes (before Wednesday evening, I'd only seen 3 episodes of the show, and I saw those about 2 1/2 years ago) I'll probably be up to S6 in a month. Started on Wed at 7pm and as of midnight last night, I hit ep 14 of S2....It's a rather addicting show, although I am very easily entertained.
Chris, if you wanted to watch the show, hulu has all the episodes of all the seasons up right now....This is how I'm watching it.
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I never said anything about HoA or WoA. I think it highly unlikely they read Brandon's books.
My foundation is that I watched the show from the beginning and loved it until it became unbearable. The characterization really started to suck. When people learned and grew too much, the writers either killed them or hit the reset button and made them start acting like they had never learned that stuff or grew from it. (Not as bad as Heroes was with this, but still bad.)
If you never had any problems with that, great for you.
I agree with this. My wife and I quit watching Heroes for this reason.
Perhaps my title was a little strong. I did not mean to indicate that the Lost writers straight up stole their plot (I too would be surprised if they had read the Mistborn books). I was just trying to point out that there are similarities.
The last thing I would claim would be to have an understanding of what the Lost mythology really is or attempt to say with any certainty what will happen in the rest of the the series. Much like everyone does with the WoT, I try to look at what we do know and find any patterns to give an indication of what could come.
That said, if the rest of Lost goes something like: Jack becomes Jacob's replacement, fights with SmokeMan/ Man-in-Black, they kill each other in the final battle and Hurley ultimately becomes the total overseer of the island, I will have to say there is more than a passing similarity (btw, I think the odds of this happening are about 0.001%)
Of course, that is the odds I would give any prediction on the end to Lost that does not have any insider information...
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Are television shows fully written ahead of time?
If they are, then why did the writers strike a couple years ago bring so many shows to an immediate halt?
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Are television shows fully written ahead of time?
If they are, then why did the writers strike a couple years ago bring so many shows to an immediate halt?
They usually are not written ahead of time. However, Abrams and Lindelhof mentioned before season 4 that they already knew the ending of the show. They also said season 6 would be the last after season 4 ended.
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I never said anything about HoA or WoA. I think it highly unlikely they read Brandon's books.
My foundation is that I watched the show from the beginning and loved it until it became unbearable. The characterization really started to suck. When people learned and grew too much, the writers either killed them or hit the reset button and made them start acting like they had never learned that stuff or grew from it. (Not as bad as Heroes was with this, but still bad.)
If you never had any problems with that, great for you.
I agree with this. My wife and I quit watching Heroes for this reason.
Perhaps my title was a little strong. I did not mean to indicate that the Lost writers straight up stole their plot (I too would be surprised if they had read the Mistborn books). I was just trying to point out that there are similarities.
The last thing I would claim would be to have an understanding of what the Lost mythology really is or attempt to say with any certainty what will happen in the rest of the the series. Much like everyone does with the WoT, I try to look at what we do know and find any patterns to give an indication of what could come.
That said, if the rest of Lost goes something like: Jack becomes Jacob's replacement, fights with SmokeMan/ Man-in-Black, they kill each other in the final battle and Hurley ultimately becomes the total overseer of the island, I will have to say there is more than a passing similarity (btw, I think the odds of this happening are about 0.001%)
Of course, that is the odds I would give any prediction on the end to Lost that does not have any insider information...
Well having seen the end now, I still have no idea what actually happened, all I do know is that my prediction was pretty accurate.
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That's hilarious.
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I think it's pretty clear the writers did have the mythology and all the island related mysteries planned out from the start. There is way too much symbolism and foreshadowing in the early seasons to argue otherwise.
Character wise? Not so much. Back in the third season (I think, it may have been the second), the writers didn't know where they were going, and made up a lot of characters' backstory and whatnot, just to fill time. Once they set an end date, they stopped all of the fluff and the show improved. Characters' storylines still changed, and they adapted parts to the actors, but it was all moving towards the end at that point.
I don't know when you stopped watching Peter, but you might want to think about retrying the series. The last couple seasons have been fantastic.
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That said, if the rest of Lost goes something like: Jack becomes Jacob's replacement, fights with SmokeMan/ Man-in-Black, they kill each other in the final battle and Hurley ultimately becomes the total overseer of the island, I will have to say there is more than a passing similarity (btw, I think the odds of this happening are about 0.001%)
Of course, that is the odds I would give any prediction on the end to Lost that does not have any insider information...
Whoa...
Anyway I never understood why so many people bash the show because they "make it up as they go along." Who cares if there are no real inconsistencies (I guess that's debatable with the last season though)? I think Damon and Carlton just said they had it all planned because people make such a big deal out of it. Sure the show changed dramatically each season, but saying it jumped the shark early in season 2 is just not being open to change. Most of the best ideas and twists came after.
That being said, the final scene was definitely something that was planned from the beginning.
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I found many inconsistencies or things that they obviously changed their minds on in lost, I still enjoyed it, but for that reason, the first season is still my favorite: no inconsistencies yet.
I could list them, but since people who have not watched it are reading this, I will not... I can think of at least five just off the top of my head.
My taiwanese friend says this is what he doesn't like about american television: it's planned season by season. The Lost creators planning out the last few seasons together was something different.
It's why I like books better, there's always a planned ending (at least in the good ones), none of this, let's see how long we can keep going and still be in popular opinion (except for in the bad ones).
That's why I really liked the cartoon avatar, there's three seasons, there was always going to be three seasons, there's continuity between all three, and as a side not the world building is excellent.