One reason TO hate Italy.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

yeah, jam, that was a weak response. I spent several paragraphs giving factual evidence of the Italian government going FUBAR all over the place, and an opinion maker using absolutely NO evidence making an accusation of well, an evil crime on the US's part. i believe my conclusion, though passionately stated, was entirely rational. If the rest of the world hates Americans because we're passionate and rational, well, then frankly, you're all wrong.

Essentially, this journalist MADE UP a reason for people to be mad at us. She INTENTIONALLY stirred the pot to make more problems. And she did it with NO evidence whatsoever. That was basing a hatred on ignorance and cowardice.

I'm really tired of idiots like this journalist and the schmucks at Little Gamers trashing America. The LG guys say they don't hate America, but they can't go 3 days without making up some stupid reason that all Americans are stupid. frankly, I'm glad they hate us if they're prejudiced like that. I don't need friends like that.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Granted the journalist isnt exactly in her right mind... shes been a prisoner for a while... so yeah Im thinking stockholm syndrome...

[Mistress of Darkness]

A perspective on journalism

[Spriggan]

There are actualy rumors going around that she told a friend that was on the other end of a cell phone, that she thought the driver was going too fast and she thought it would be ironic if after this they all crashed.

As for Stockholm Syndrome; she stated in an interview  that she ask the kidnappers why they took her, some one who was on their side, and not americans.  So ya, I think she was allready on their side long before she got kidnapped.

SE, you'll never make any Euros (except Brittians) like us becasue they hate we're not cowards like them, stick up for our belifes and don't roll over when ever someone states they don't like us.  Can we help it if we're acutaly proud of who we are?

While I admit that the Itilan PM is, next to Bliar, one of our best allies, the Itilan people have allwayse pissed me off.  A few years ago I was walking across BYU campus with a Japanese friend and we ran into someone she knew form her ESL (english as a second language) class who was itilan.  After a few minutes of talking the Gaurd member took down the US flag, which we happend to be standing near (JKHB) so I saluted along with most every one else.  After words the Itilan girl started to make fun of me, an americans in general,  for doing so and calmly stated something along the lines that I was showing respect to the freedoms I have here and the solders fighting in afganistan.  She then started to talk about how horrible of a place america was and that I shouldn't show respect to anything dealing with it.  And this got me mad.  I asked her why she was here then if it was such a horrible place, and she stated "Well becasue I cannot get into school in Italy nor could a get a good paying job".  Long story short I basicaly told her how mad it made me she was comming here, enjoying a life she couldn't in her home country, and do nothing by complane about how "horrible" it was.  I then told her if she hated it so much she should leave and let someone else who would appreciate all she had here take her place.  This pretty much shut her up.

I don't mind if people have problems with certain aspects of america, nothings perfect, but she had nothing good (or refused)  to say about it.

[n8sumsion]

C'mon... "they hate we're not cowards like them"? You can't just unilaterally claim that all europeans are cowards and aren't proud of their countries. I've spent some time living in both France and Germany, and I've found that many of them are very proud of their home countries. Their countries all have military service, and many if not most of their young men serve time in their military. Just because your country isn't "undefeated" in war doesn't mean you're a coward.

That isn't to say I don't agree that this particular Italian journalist has a bias against the US. It's quite clear she does, and has no facts to back up any of her claims that she was deliberately targetted because the US didn't want to see her freed. That's just silly.

I personally don't agree 100% with our reasons for being over in Afghanistan and Iraq, at least our continued presence over there. But I want to see every soldier return home safely. And regardless of my personal views, if soldiers are over there, they need to do the job they were sent to do.

I just think it's a bit of a stretch to say that because one or two Italians happen to not like us, we hate everyone in the entire country. If that was acceptable, then everyone in the world would hate Americans, because I ran into American tourists when I was overseas, and the only people I have ever met who were ruder, more obnoxious and more offensive than the majority of these tourists, were the British soccer fans who came down to France for big matches. They win hands down for being the worst.

[Entsuropi]

True that. The police are constantly putting in new measures to deal with them.

Enforced sterilisation works well imo.

[Spriggan]

I can easly call them cowards.  When ever there's a problem in the world the European goverments turn their heads the other direction (in the case of France it's usealy becaue of finacial reasons, like in kosovo, Iraq and now in the Congo) and hope the problem will go away.  The majority of Europeans endorce these policies, ignoreing atrocites or appeaseing the ones doing it only encourages the offenders.  However, I have no doubt they would defend their own country if it were invaded or attacked.

As for not likeing their own coutries, if they did they wouldn't be in the European Union, the goal of that orginization is to force all the countries in it to be the same.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I didn't say that all non-Americans hate Americans. I'm just looking at the amazingly prevelant anti-US sentiment in the world right now. Everyone I see who advocates anti-US policies is actively looking for reasons to hate us. They won't look at the good we do (how much a year is spent on foreign aid?) but if we elect someone they don't like suddenly we're the evilest of evil empires ever. These people who possess anti-American are the people I'm targeting. I know the subject of the thread is more broad than that, but I thought, as rational human beings, we'd be able to realize that I am intelligent enough to not seriously make blanket statements like all Italians are dumb.

[n8sumsion]

I did read it as you were making a blanket statement, SE. But noted, obviously even without knowing you I don't think you're stupid, and if you didn't mean it that way I won't take it that way. And I agree with you, many times the good the US does in the world is ignored whenever there is a problem. But that is kind of a staple of modern journalism as well. Never mind how much good a person does, you'll rarely hear about that, but as soon as they slip up and there might be a scandal involved... all over the headlines.

I think it's great to be proud of your country, I just hate it when that somehow comes across as "My country is better than yours."

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I've REALLY been trying to keep the pride down, ever since my mission when I had Canadian room mates. I have many friends that I talk to regularly in Romania, UK, Australia, Canada, South Africa, Norway, and several others. I don't want to lose those friendships because I love my country.

However, I read/hear about this, and I make an assumption. Maybe it's not valid, but I'm willing to bet it is. I think right now the general climate in Italy is that the US is a collection of oppressive, domineering swine who shoot at allies who do things against American policy. And this because ITALY'S government made some extremely ill-advised decisions. That angers me.

[Spriggan]

I think it's great to be proud of your country, I just hate it when that somehow comes across as "My country is better than yours."

I don't think my country is better then most, I just happen to currently think my goverment is, which isn't saying much.

I lived in Japan for 2 years, mission, and loved the people and country, but hated how racists and sexists thier goverment was.  When, in a country, a someone gets off from rape charges with the defence "She was dressed like she wanted to be raped" then there are problems.

[Entsuropi]

Now I know why JP likes Japan!

[n8sumsion]

I worked with a couple guys who lived over in Japan for a while. Yeah, they mentioned similar experiences of racism vs. westerners. Some funny stories. My friends speak Japanese, so they were able to understand a lot of what was said to them. One guy entered a grocery store with his girlfriend, and the manager of the store comes over the loudspeaker and says something to the effect of, "Ladies, please watch your purses. There are westerners in the store." Another friend couldn't find an apartment for over a month because everywhere he went, they refused to rent to a gaijin.

In my industry, I've had the chance to work with people from all over the world. When I was working on Far Cry in Germany, there were 16 different nationalities on my team. But maybe these people I meet aren't typical of other people from their countries. The video game industry attracts a weird breed of people. They've all been fairly pro-US and pro-any company that makes cool games. I worked with a couple of Italians, and another friend has Japanese in-laws living in Japan, and they are all very friendly and complimentary of my home. So I'll grant that I haven't had the same experience as Sprig or SE, and that may influence my opinions in a different way.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Ok, here's whats been ticking me off a little.

For the italian public this incident is tragic.
Italy is the third largest contributor of troops to Iraq, and has vigorously supported (at least its president has) being their with us. And were upset that their mad at us for killing one of their "favorite sons". I think a lot of the italian ire has to do with a certain cable car incident a few years back that the US washed its hand of. You know the one where the US pilot was flying too low and in the wrong place and he clipped a cable holding a cable car filled with a ton of italians in the italian alps. One we never apologized for.
So the journalist is biased, so what. So italy is mad, I dont blame them, a hero is dead. Would we be any less ticked than the italians if the roles had been reversed and our guy was shot by Italian troops on his way back from rescuing a hostage?

[Skar]

We would absolutely be angry. There is a large difference between being pissed off and implying, with no evidence whatsoever, that we did it on purpose.

That's the rub.