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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« on: November 13, 2007, 12:34:59 PM »
Wow. Quite the thread here.
I just finished Warbreaker 3.5 and I'm hoping this is an okay place to put feedback. I also didn't take the time to read the 40+ pages of comments, so maybe some of what I say will be redundant.
I like the book a lot, although it's obvious it's still a draft. I won't comment on the typos and small things like wrong name used or other little inconsistencies (although I work for BYU so if Brandon Sanderson wants, I'd be pleased to print out and bring by a marked copy with that stuff).
The big picture things that I think don't quite come together and leave distracting questions for me:
* Why is the God King different in being able to father children? Similarly, how can the God King Awaken when none of the other Returned can? The text leaves me with a few possibilities. Maybe he really is magically distinct from the other Returned (although the book seemed to break down most other aspects of his theology). Maybe he's not really a Returned, and the priests selected him because he's one of the rare humans that will grow to be physically similar to the Returned. (He's given BioChroma often enough to never feel the weakness of approaching a week long interval without it, so he might not realize that he doesn't really need it to survive. . . .) Or maybe the priests know Commands or some other aspect of the BioChroma system that allows him to do these things? I think this is important considering that Siri takes it for granted that the God King could awaken her clothes and strangle her with them if he wanted, but the reader is otherwise given the impression that Returned can only use their BioChroma to obtain their Heightenings and perform one last miracle.
* Similar to this, how are Denth and Vasher able to Awaken, although they're Returned? And how can they survive during the short periods when they're devoid of Breath?
* Have Denth and Vasher been purchasing at least one Breath each week over the centuries of their life? If so, why haven't they become conspicuous from their auras? Do Returned need one new Breath a week, or is it enough that the Breath gets passed around? E.g. can a Returned do a "Breath swap" with another Returned and they both get their needed strength for the next week? If a Returned gets ten Breaths one week, is there a way for him/her to use them over time to cover ten weeks? (That last isn't really important to answer in the book, but I feel like a reader could answer it if they understood the other parts.)
* What happens to Siri and the God King? Do they reestablish the government? Are there changes in it now that the God King is no longer a mute puppet? I think the reader is left a little bit hanging here at the end. (Not that this is the first time --- I've read and loved Elantris, too.)
* I'm left wondering the proportion in land size and population between Hallandren and Idris. At various times, I was thinking that it was 1:1 or 100:1 (in both land and people). When whoever does the map thing gets done, that will probably clarify that, but it might be worthwhile to answer in the text. (Maybe it was and I missed it. . . .)
Of course, a magic system doesn't have to be fully explained to work. It doesn't matter that the reader is given all the rules so long as there are rules and they are followed. But the things I mentioned seem to point to inconsistencies. The explanations (of which there could be several) ought to at least be hinted at (or hinted at more strongly), or the reader (at least in my case) will be expending more effort trying to explain them to themselves, which will distract them from the plot.
Here are things I think worked really well:
* The characters were deep. Maybe not the deepest I've ever read (some of the classics have "annoyingly deep" characters), but they're engaging, dynamic, and for the most part likable. Dynamic is very important to me, and I feel like the changes these characters went through weren't just those changes that everyone likes to see (naive character becomes skilled and does great things, sheltered character learns about other viewpoints, etc.). Those changes did happen, but the changes felt natural and you could see why they went the way they did.
* The surprises work well, I think, for the most part. With the mercenaries and Vasher and the intrigues. I really believe you can go back and read the Denth chapters and see how he was the bad guy all along. Vasher is kept suitably ambiguous so that he can be colored by whoever is talking about him, until Vivenna starts to get the whole picture. The factions in the Palace complex all have their own aims, so that the reader never can tell for sure who is an ally and who isn't.
* The relationships with the Princesses (Siri and Susebron, Vivenna and Denth/Tonk Fah and then Vasher) are developed well and very engaging. I'm also left hungry for more scenes between Siri and Susebron, and between Vivenna and Vasher. They work so well that I kind of want to stay there a while longer, but the book must go on. . . . I will mention that I think the Peprin/Vivenna relationship doesn't really come together. I feel that they are friends/acquaintances, but the only reason to me that they might be anything more is that the book asserts so. But the S/S relationship is very endearing and feels deep (it feels like it's given more time in the text then it actually is, I think) and the V/V relationship is an effective counterpoint, not sweet or poignant so much as challenging and professional, yet still a bonding. (Convenient initials, there
.)
One detail that I'd tweak:
When Vasher explains the different types of entities created from Breath, he starts off mentioning that there are four different kinds. Obviously that's a mistake, because a page or two later, Vivenna makes an intuitive jump that there should be four kinds of entities, two sentient and two not, two reanimated and two not. (To add to that, this intuitive jump makes Vasher uncomfortable when he set it up in the first place.) Clearly, Vasher will need to explain this without starting off with the mention of four entity types. But . . . it also seems to me to be far too insightful for Vivenna to make that intuitive jump. Why would her very first guided lesson in a magic system she's always shunned as heretical allow her to make such a significant jump? I would expect the reasoning jump to at least happen in a different scene, once she's gotten used to dabbling and done some real experimenting or unguided thinking.
==========
Now, I'm starting to catch up on a few pages of the 40 page thread. One comment: I think four viewpoint characters is perfect. I just finished "Winter's Heart" and it's really refreshing to be back down to the single digits on viewpoint characters. But I would not throw out any of these viewpoints. They're all essential to make the story work.
I just finished Warbreaker 3.5 and I'm hoping this is an okay place to put feedback. I also didn't take the time to read the 40+ pages of comments, so maybe some of what I say will be redundant.
I like the book a lot, although it's obvious it's still a draft. I won't comment on the typos and small things like wrong name used or other little inconsistencies (although I work for BYU so if Brandon Sanderson wants, I'd be pleased to print out and bring by a marked copy with that stuff).
The big picture things that I think don't quite come together and leave distracting questions for me:
* Why is the God King different in being able to father children? Similarly, how can the God King Awaken when none of the other Returned can? The text leaves me with a few possibilities. Maybe he really is magically distinct from the other Returned (although the book seemed to break down most other aspects of his theology). Maybe he's not really a Returned, and the priests selected him because he's one of the rare humans that will grow to be physically similar to the Returned. (He's given BioChroma often enough to never feel the weakness of approaching a week long interval without it, so he might not realize that he doesn't really need it to survive. . . .) Or maybe the priests know Commands or some other aspect of the BioChroma system that allows him to do these things? I think this is important considering that Siri takes it for granted that the God King could awaken her clothes and strangle her with them if he wanted, but the reader is otherwise given the impression that Returned can only use their BioChroma to obtain their Heightenings and perform one last miracle.
* Similar to this, how are Denth and Vasher able to Awaken, although they're Returned? And how can they survive during the short periods when they're devoid of Breath?
* Have Denth and Vasher been purchasing at least one Breath each week over the centuries of their life? If so, why haven't they become conspicuous from their auras? Do Returned need one new Breath a week, or is it enough that the Breath gets passed around? E.g. can a Returned do a "Breath swap" with another Returned and they both get their needed strength for the next week? If a Returned gets ten Breaths one week, is there a way for him/her to use them over time to cover ten weeks? (That last isn't really important to answer in the book, but I feel like a reader could answer it if they understood the other parts.)
* What happens to Siri and the God King? Do they reestablish the government? Are there changes in it now that the God King is no longer a mute puppet? I think the reader is left a little bit hanging here at the end. (Not that this is the first time --- I've read and loved Elantris, too.)
* I'm left wondering the proportion in land size and population between Hallandren and Idris. At various times, I was thinking that it was 1:1 or 100:1 (in both land and people). When whoever does the map thing gets done, that will probably clarify that, but it might be worthwhile to answer in the text. (Maybe it was and I missed it. . . .)
Of course, a magic system doesn't have to be fully explained to work. It doesn't matter that the reader is given all the rules so long as there are rules and they are followed. But the things I mentioned seem to point to inconsistencies. The explanations (of which there could be several) ought to at least be hinted at (or hinted at more strongly), or the reader (at least in my case) will be expending more effort trying to explain them to themselves, which will distract them from the plot.
Here are things I think worked really well:
* The characters were deep. Maybe not the deepest I've ever read (some of the classics have "annoyingly deep" characters), but they're engaging, dynamic, and for the most part likable. Dynamic is very important to me, and I feel like the changes these characters went through weren't just those changes that everyone likes to see (naive character becomes skilled and does great things, sheltered character learns about other viewpoints, etc.). Those changes did happen, but the changes felt natural and you could see why they went the way they did.
* The surprises work well, I think, for the most part. With the mercenaries and Vasher and the intrigues. I really believe you can go back and read the Denth chapters and see how he was the bad guy all along. Vasher is kept suitably ambiguous so that he can be colored by whoever is talking about him, until Vivenna starts to get the whole picture. The factions in the Palace complex all have their own aims, so that the reader never can tell for sure who is an ally and who isn't.
* The relationships with the Princesses (Siri and Susebron, Vivenna and Denth/Tonk Fah and then Vasher) are developed well and very engaging. I'm also left hungry for more scenes between Siri and Susebron, and between Vivenna and Vasher. They work so well that I kind of want to stay there a while longer, but the book must go on. . . . I will mention that I think the Peprin/Vivenna relationship doesn't really come together. I feel that they are friends/acquaintances, but the only reason to me that they might be anything more is that the book asserts so. But the S/S relationship is very endearing and feels deep (it feels like it's given more time in the text then it actually is, I think) and the V/V relationship is an effective counterpoint, not sweet or poignant so much as challenging and professional, yet still a bonding. (Convenient initials, there
.)One detail that I'd tweak:
When Vasher explains the different types of entities created from Breath, he starts off mentioning that there are four different kinds. Obviously that's a mistake, because a page or two later, Vivenna makes an intuitive jump that there should be four kinds of entities, two sentient and two not, two reanimated and two not. (To add to that, this intuitive jump makes Vasher uncomfortable when he set it up in the first place.) Clearly, Vasher will need to explain this without starting off with the mention of four entity types. But . . . it also seems to me to be far too insightful for Vivenna to make that intuitive jump. Why would her very first guided lesson in a magic system she's always shunned as heretical allow her to make such a significant jump? I would expect the reasoning jump to at least happen in a different scene, once she's gotten used to dabbling and done some real experimenting or unguided thinking.
==========
Now, I'm starting to catch up on a few pages of the 40 page thread. One comment: I think four viewpoint characters is perfect. I just finished "Winter's Heart" and it's really refreshing to be back down to the single digits on viewpoint characters. But I would not throw out any of these viewpoints. They're all essential to make the story work.