Author Topic: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF  (Read 1531 times)

RavenstarRHJF

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May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« on: May 18, 2009, 07:49:41 PM »
This draft is still a little rougher than I would like, but last week was quite busy.  Let me know about grammar and spelling, and otherwise just tear into it!
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Renoard

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 07:49:54 PM »
This is looking like a better chapter than chapter 1.  The alienation, as opposed to alienness, is eased and it's a bit easier to empathize with the species than before.  This eased us into a clearer understanding of the social order and roles without any hint of info-dumping.  The whole piece has an easier pacing.

A couple of items, I'm not sure "confliction" really qualifies as a word and if it does, it wouldn't mean what you used it for.  A simple "conflict" will suffice. :)

Starting with a quot that is unattributed and starts mid sentence didn't work for me here.  If Taq had been rousing from unconsciousness, or it we lead into it with Taq entering the meeting area, it might have felt better.

"Ayfa wore her own ceremonial robes as if they were no more than a gardener’s smock."
Likely you mean her ease, but “as if” is vague enough to allow the reader to think you mean she is frumpy or disrespectful toward her dress.

Thank you for including some less commonly used words, such as susurrus and hatchling.  They were used well and naturally so that they seemed to belong to you and to the story.  My WP has an abysmal vocabulary and I can only improve it when I encounter or use words it doesn't know.  Readers are like it as well, especially American readers. ;P

Looking forward to more.  Sigh. Why are the "chicks" showing up us guys? :D
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RavenstarRHJF

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 02:20:36 AM »
Thanks for the thoughts, Reonard.  I'm glad you liked it better (hopefully that means I'm improving!). 

Yeah, I was almost counting on someone finding at least one typo or grammar issue... thanks for pointing it out!

I think I know how to fix the beginning quote problem, and the awkwardness with Ayfa's dress is noted. :)

Heh- big words are something of a specialty with me... comes from reading too much as a kid. ;D  Always happy to educate programs!

As for the "chicks" beating the guys... well, at the moment there aren't that many guys submitting... are there?  It's hard to tell on the internets...


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Frog

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 11:27:06 PM »
Ha! I'm on time this week!

Thoughts While Reading:
Info dump in the second paragraph.

Quote
yet I see that none of you failed to appear to advantage.”
awkward.

Quote
There was a general susurrus of confusion among the Councilors. 
Why not just use murmur?
Quote
“I beg your pardon Councilor, Qwerlik, but, what are you talking about?”  Taq asked in such confusion that his eyes were clouded nearly white.  “Are you insane? How can you even consider reinstating the Boundary if it has indeed come down?  We have been cut off from the world for three hundred years!  What has happened is a gift; nay, a miracle!  How many T’Awn have died in this pursuit?  A hundred?  Two?  You can’t mean to make their deaths meaningless!”
Whoa, my goodness. That reaction came out of nowhere. Before this Taq seemed nervous and hesitant in the councilors presences so this seems way off.

Quote
Ganns sneered in obvious derision

Overall impression: I am going to have to take an opposite stance from Renoard I'm afraid. I am a bit iffy on this whole scene. I think it may have been an important exercise to build up your world and social order, but I am not seeing it's significance to the story at hand. Most of the characters presented here seemed underdeveloped and irrational; even Taq in the bit of dialogue I highlighted. I would have rather stuck with his own investigation and the unconscious children to be honest. Maybe even see a few of the instances the councilors mentioned rather than be told about them. It just felt like a giant, drawn out infodump. All important information but I wish you had found  a better way to present it.

The big words are a bit of a stumbling block to me too, because I don't see them adding much to your descriptions right now other than to make stumbling blocks for your reader. It actually looks like your showing off to be perfectly honest. It's not that you can't ever wow us with your impressive vocabulary, I just think you need to use them more sparingly for a more dramatic effect.

Wow, I'm harsh today. Sorry. Maybe I should go back to being late next time.... I really do like your world and want to get back to the lizard children asap. :D

Oh, and just a side note, I think you, Silk and I are the only 'chicks' being real active on the site right now and I haven't been brave enough to submit in months, so go ahead and take full kudos for the complement. :D
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Renoard

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 11:37:18 PM »
For the record I used the term "chicks", and I included the quotes, because of the growing use of terms like chick-flick and chick-lit. ;P  And I was trying to shame someone into submitting another episode of Crystal Heart or letting us see those floating islands. ;)

I wouldn't normally answer back in this sort of venue, but I do feel very strongly about this particular case.

One of the main reasons I felt that Taq's outburst worked was because this meeting pulled his nose out of an administration manual long enough to force him to notice how his tribe has been marginalized, and on top of that his whole understanding of society just took a turn toward the dystopic.  I really don't think this chapter idled so I guess Frog and I are very much opposed.  I think this was the best way to bring the whole colony into the question of a breach without having to use a bunch of awkward flashbacks and infodumps later.

But we are in agreement that we need to get those rebellious punks, I mean students, conscious and being questioned!
:P

 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 11:48:08 PM by Renoard »
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Frog

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 01:46:02 AM »
Oh, thems be fighting words, Renoard. :P
No, feel free to disagree w/ me. I am frequently wrong and I wasn't offended by being called a 'chick' either. I call myself one quite frequently.
I still say the pacing seemed off, but mostly just because the characters seemed sketchy and it seemed a weird place to leave the kids. Now if they wanted to do a full investigation after the kids woke up and we saw a few of these things in action, maybe I wouldn't have such an issue with it. Or I could just be way off on this one. It has happened before... :-\ 
Either way, it's great for a first draft. Just pushing for some more polish is all, take it or leave it. :)
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RavenstarRHJF

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 01:58:16 AM »
Hm, polish will be coming, I promise.  But you probably won't see it for a while... I'm trying to avoid re-posting, for the main reason that I'm a perfectionist at heart, and I don't want to be caught in that web of posting and re-posting and re-posting... you get my drift. ;)

And conflicting opinions are (almost) always a good thing- if nothing else, they keep my ego down to a manageable size.  I do think this scene is necessary for Taq, and also for the reader, but it does still need work.  And don't worry, we'll be getting back to the trio very soon!

As for the big words... I like susurrus just because it sounds like a large group whispering amongst themselves.  Also, I like efficiency in language.  If a big word can get across multiple ideas, then I'm more likely to use that word than a combination of others.  That said... I need to keep my audience in mind, and I have been trying to scale back on the big ones.  Apparently need to do it more, though...
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Frog

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 04:38:23 PM »
Oh, I am not suggesting you resubmit. If you're anything like me, it's better to keep that writing initiative going and do major edits at the end. Just trying to give you a few things to think about in your next sections and when you reach that editing point.

And I agree that sometimes a more descriptive word can work better than not, and putting them here and there is just fun, but the only point I was trying to make is that they call attention to themselves. So only put them in places worth calling attention to. So that's my last word on that and I will let you be the artist and figure it out.  ;)
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ErikHolmes

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 09:20:24 PM »
I hope you don't mind the late reply, but it's been a busy week  :D

So I think I agree a little with both Renoard and Frog. I thought the chapter was well done, and gave us good insight into the working of the people in your story, having said that though, I think we could use even more insight.

One thing I would like to see more of is more signs that this is an inhuman population. Makeup some words for things and toss them in there, I don't even care if you tell me what they are or not.

For example, in E. E. Knights Dragon Champion, (A book from a Dragons POV), the dragon talks about his Sii and Saa all of the time. I was halfway through the book before I realized that they were claws one his front and back legs. But they twitched or relaxed with his moods. They also had Riff's which were those little spiked fan things over their ears that you see in a lot of dragon pictures.

My point is, I'd like to see evidence that this is an in-human people. Maybe they have names for the ridges over their eyes, or maybe their sense of smell is more important for emotional clues then what they see.

I also think this might be a good point to introduce NPC's that might be important later on. Even if not, I'd like to see a little more description on some of the council members. Maybe they wear crystals from their ears, carve designs into their scales like tattoos, etc. I know a lot of the things I am saying are probably better for 2nd or 3rd draft, but hopefully this gets you thinking now.

Overall I thought the wording was just a little too much, but if you left it as it is, I would buy it, these are stuff, academic types after all.

All in all, great post! I read the chapter quickly, was never bored and was interested in everything that took place. IMO, that's all that really matters.
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RavenstarRHJF

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2009, 03:26:13 AM »
Ooo!  I kinda like that scale-carving idea... too bad their scales are too small and not thick enough for that. :P  Bleh.  I'll do better in the descriptions department, I just need to sit down and make myself just... say it. 

I might actually add some basic character descriptions with the summary for the next installment (since I've promised myself not to re-post until I've got at least five chapters submitted), but that'll probably be another week (beyond next monday).  I do try to polish up the very rough draft for you guys!
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Silk

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 04:32:40 AM »
The Council meeting: There's something about opening a scene with dialogue like this that simply doesn't work for me. I wish I could tell you why, but I don't know, except that for some reason I find it a huge turnoff.
 
The term Presider makes a lot of sense now that I've had a moment to think about it, but at first glance it looks like you were going for President and missed.

"There was a general susurrus..." Whee, cool word.

"'I begin with a report filed by one Farre of the Weaver’s Guild.  I should mention that Farre’s family residence abuts the old Meeting Place.' She paused to let that fact sink in a little, but most of those present thought it was an unnecessary and irrelevant bit of information." At this point, really, so do I. We have no idea what the Meeting Place is; I see you address that in the next line, but it might be more effective if we have the information sooner.

Or maybe you're just calling too much attention to it. You, through the Presider, present it as something to be made a big deal of; "she paused to left that fact sink in a little",  but the other T'Awn don't seem to know why it should be and neither do we. It makes for a "so what reaction" all around. Perhaps a better way of going about it would to simply show everybody shrugging it off, without any sort of "alarm" phrases like "letting it sink in" that the reader might twig to. If this holds any significance for special significance for Taq, let us see some of his reaction. You don't even have to tell us what he's feeling. Maybe he blinks, or stands up straighter. Your readers will pick up on it.

"The old Meeting Place consisted of twin pillars of a type of stone that was very rare." What type? An easy spot to drop a name.

"But his suspicions, even if they later proved false, could not be hidden any longer." Passive voice in the last clause. And instead of placing the "even if they later proved false" bit in the middle of the sentence, you might just want to place it at the end. Less convoluted.

"'I beg your pardon Councilor, Qwerlik, but, what are you talking about?'  Taq asked in such confusion that his eyes were clouded nearly white." Okay, this is, I believe, the third time the expression about the eyes clear/eyes clouded has come up. And you know what, I think it's a great bit of worldbuilding. BUT. This is the first time it's actually been presented to me in a context clear enough that I can figure out what it means; I think I'd like to see it a little sooner.

"'And I,' replied Tolan, 'question your right to question my judgement!'" And I question your right to question your right to question your right to question your right to question my judgement!

Ahem. Okay, sorry. I don't mean to mock. But that statement struck me as pretty silly.

"It suddenly came to Taq that Tolan, though a Mentalist himself, had neglected to inform the Council that the Breach had been illegally performed.  Perhaps he had been hoping Taq would be honest enough to reveal it himself..." Why does Taq assume that Tolan already knew about this? I rather had the impression that he didn't, actually. Partly from Tolan's reaction ("you know something about this, Taq") but mostly from the fact that Meles and friends had only just been discovered when Taq got called aweay to the Council meeting. Also, the phrasing in those two sentences is problematic; I had trouble following exactly what you were saying.

Tolan speaks quietly to Taq shortly thereafter, as if the entire room full of shouting, angry lizard people has vanished.

You submitted this as "Chapter 2 part 1" so I'm assuming that there's another half of chapter two, but I think you could easily make this a chapter break if you wanted.

Skimming through other peoples' comments: I also enjoyed the vocabulary in this one. And though I didn't have a problem with the gardener's smock, in fact I liked the idea, I see Renoard's point here. "As easily as a gardener's smock" should fix the problem.

I can see why Frog's a bit concerned with the introduction of the Council, introducing a few characters who are probably superfluous, but I've no suggestions on an easy way to avoid that--because I didn't find it too huge a problem, and like Renoard, I thought that this chapter was fairly strong. I like the introduction of the Council, not only for the points Renoard has already mentioned, but also because it brings a sense of scope that I don't think would come from Taq making solitary investigations, and a sense of scope that, if we don't one hundred per cent need right this very second, we certainly will as the story goes on. (I'm not saying the sense of scope that I'm talking about came in too early, necessarily, just that it probably could have come in later without the story suffering.)

Sniggering at Erik's use of the term NPCs. Hee hee.

Aaaand I'm done.

RavenstarRHJF

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 03:54:04 AM »
Again, very good points.  And may I add that I find your critiques very entertaining in and of themselves? ;)  Seriously though, you express yourself very well.  These are added to the list.
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Silk

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Re: May 18th, The Junction- Ch. 2 part 1- RavenstarRHJF
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2009, 04:16:24 AM »
Well, good, my day isn't complete unless I make you laugh AND cry.

I mean *cough* unless I make you laugh. Yeah.

>>;

;D