Timewaster's Guide Archive

a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena

This is the definition which started all this "theory" thing. Of course, taking out "natural world" and replacing it for "fantasy or scifi world".
Bad thing, it degenerated to the point that any random idea is a "theory". Anyway, theories (actual fan theories) tend to be fairly developed, earning the title. Of course, there is always people who don't know how to talk (and sometimes it's us  ).

By the way, very insightful post, I see you have your ideas clear.

And, sorry for the OT (it should be less of an OT in the Hoid thread, by the way).

I feel that after the theories post, someone should take the conversation back to its original ideas. So....
Where do you all see a Shard's manifestation (id est, power or influence)?

In Elantris, I can see the Dor and the Pool, although I am not sure if they are different. I really believe all powers shown come from the Dor, and one interesting idea....
I believe the Dor is the power (according to Sazed, the body) of the Shard and the concept of Jaddeth (the sleeping buried god) is the mind of the same Shard so, ironically, both Arelens and Svordisans (please someone tell me how the names of the regions' peoples are in English) adore the same God.
It should seem obvious (because both Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth have the same root), but it isn't because Korathi and Derethi brought the concept of Unity (the original teachings) to their own different Gods (Jaddeth, a God of Earth and Domi, a God of Love).
I don't know, what do you think?

About the topic (it seems it degenerated a bit in the last posts, uh?    )
Here in Spain we have a small editorial company named Gigamesh. They have great taste in fantasy and scifi books, and they tend to make high quality and customer oriented (which means the same) translations and editions.
They got the rights to publish aSoFaI (I'll use acronyms as they have been stated in page 2) and they started with paperback instead of hardcover (as I said elsewhere, books in Spain are REALLY expensive, and such huge books would be extremely costly) by attending to fantasy fans feedback.
Books 3 (A Storm of Swords) and 4 (Feast for Crows) had to be splitted in two because of their length. They just simply got them wrapped in plastic together (what's it called in English? In Spanish it's "retractilado") and sold as one book.
They were concerned with book 4 because some stores unwrapped them and sold them as two books but I don't think that could happen with aMoL because Tor isn't a small company as Gigamesh.
As I did when they asked, to save pages to the books, I would suggest the appendix (it takes several dozen of pages in last WoT books) to be set a separate small book, so they don't have to publish appendixes in both books.
Oddly, I made the suggestion to save money and they took it to the Deluxe Edition 

So, we all know it will be 2 volumes. It is just, what do you prefer? Having both volumes at once in, say, 2010? Or have one volume... say end 2009 and the other in end 2010?
I'm guessing based on what BS tells in his website, no way I can know when they will actually be released.

Also, I would like to tell you about the experience we have here in Spain with WoT.
The biggest fantasy company in here is Timun Mas. It was broke and some supposed fans took up with it. They got WoT rights. They published the first 3 volumes (that's it, till TDR). Then, they decided to split the following books in two. They sold each book at more or less the same price they have been selling the first 3 so........... they got to gain double and we had to pay double. We knew nothing of this practice because the web was not so common those days.

So, we know what it is to get split books. It is weird. Endings of the first halves are untasty. Begginings on the second halves are strange. Moreso when they release one book a year. Definetely, I would rather have aMoL in one book at once, whether it is 1-2 or 3 volumes, than having it on episodes.

Oh, I read French version of Feast for Crows went out in 3 or 4 volumes. THAT must be unnerving.....

Edit  by Nessa: Changed LSD to LDS. This is a reference to Latter-day Saint, a member name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Well, indeed this is a serious thread, or I would have received at least five replies saying something as "Oh, so he was LSD follower... now I DO understand those magic systems" 
Sorry, but that was too good to let it go 

As said by Ryos (in a different way), we tend to like what we know and agree with, so it's normal to have likes and dislikes in books concerning these. But there are also other things in a book.
For example, I am a real fan of "A Song of Fire and Ice" by George R.R. Martin. Although I haven't heard it specifically, it seems BS likes it too. It's hard for me to read it sometimes, for the level of violence there is (I don't like Rome or Gallactica for those same reasons), and my wife left the second volume unfinished, but I go on because of the other things which are good in them.
I don't like some of the things in BS books (oh, please, Vin and Elend never go to bed together until they get married? That's so unlike Vin's philosphy.....) but I pass on it and go on for the parts I like. I suppose it's what we all do.

Anyway, Skeptic, it seems you had bad experience (or maybe just reference) about Mormons. But archtypes are not people. You would find some LDS followers who just fit your loathing image and some who would make you think they are not Mormons. Well, that's life, that's people.

And I'm runting, I should be getting ready to sleep, so sorry if it was a messy chat. 

A couple more somewhat notable things:
Presumably, bronze could not be used to detect Elantrians, because the Dor is an entirely seperate magic system than Allomancy and Feruchemy.
An army of Elantrians would have a better chance, but not against an army of Mistborn (if the fight is fair, both sides' numbers will be equal).
Dakhor monks don't have much of an advantage, seeing a they're basically just thugs, but they COULD distract the Mistborn while the Elantrians draw Aons.

Well, regarding that:
1.- I think bronze allows allomancers to detect the power of creation, be it channeled one way or another. She detects Ruin and the power at the WoA, and neither are Allomancy (this is arguable, though, in the case of Preservation, but in the case of Ruin is somewhat more clear).
Why hasn't she detected Feruchemist or Hemalurgist? Well, I'm not sure, but maybe she wasn't familiar with the pulses from them or she did could feel them but didn't know what they were.
So, they would detect active Dor in all its forms (active, not inactive as in Elantrians' bodies or Dakhor monks).

2.- It is clearly stated that some Elantrians are better at drawing Aons than others, and that almost all of them specialized in one or a few fields. So, I'm thinking Elantrians are more or less like Allomancers, only a few excel (= Mistborn) and most of them are good at channeling Dor for a few things (= Mistings).
We've seen few organised conflicts with Allomancers and Elantrians, but it seems that Elantrians would be much versatile and powerful (so you've got 20 Coinshots Pushing metals to us? Well, I've got 3 Elantrians expert in turning metal to bubbles, so...........).

As always, when you confront different styles, the one who gets the battle to develop so that it shows the best of his/her style wins. With plenty of time to prepare (and Dor to channel), Elantrians win. In fast close combat, Mistborn wins.
I have not a very clear idea of how would Awakening magic work in a fight. We've seen it, but it seems to take very difficult Commands and ridiculous amounts of Breaths to work, but that should go in another thread 

Well, as I said I'm still reading the HoA spoilers thread and I just read this you should have commented to death:

This is slightly a tangent, but here is a relevant chunk from the Warbreaker Annotations.  As this won't be posted for months, I'll put it here as a sneak preview.

Chapter Thirty-Two
"This whole scene came about because I wanted an interesting way to delve into the history.  Siri needed to hear it, and I felt that many readers would want to know it.  However, that threatened to put me into the realm of the dreaded info dump.

And so I brought in the big guns.  This cameo is so obvious (or, at least, someday it will be) that I almost didn’t use the name Hoid for the character, as I felt it would be too obvious.  The first draft had him using one of his other favorite pseudonyms.  However, in the end, I decided that too many people would be confused (or, at least, even more confused) if I didn’t use the same name.  So here it is.  And if you have no idea what I’m talking about. . .well, let’s just say that there’s a lot more to this random appearance than you might think."

From BS dated 19 october 2008.

So.... I think it is ok to have different lines of thought in theories, but that this clearly points to him being the same character in every world, so he must be travelling from world to world. Taking into account that every book happens in a different "universe chronology", he can be in every series being the same man.
And he hasn't to be powerful in all of them. For example, if Elantris is the "oldest" (in universe chronology) story, he could just be a beggar who later in the series obtains his power. Same if Mistborn is the oldest. He could just be a skaa and later on he got his power to travel. It is pretty obvious that Warbreaker is not an old story in BS universe (maybe we will find Scadriel travellers landing in Warbreaker's lands?) 

I really believe we will know of him later on, and that the one story we hear from him being able to travel through worlds will be one of the "oldest" one.

Adonalsium is an anagram for Dios Alumna.

Shards of Adonalsium is an anagram for A Handmaid Surfs Solo!

It's obvious Adonalsium is Walt Disney because it's an anagram for Diosa Mulan (Goddes Mulan).

Hoid is a Shard = Dash Dish Roi
Which means Hoid was originally a waiter. 
And, as waiters in means of transport are stewards, that means Hoid is Sazed.
Logic wins 

Hello again.
I just posted for the first time but, in case you didn't read it, I greet you all again. 

I believe BS is a good foreseer. He plants seeds in his books which give fruits long time in the future of the series. That is why I think if he has planted the Shards theme (and he just plainly said he has), then he would have done it in a way we can recognize it.
I write this because I believe we will see similar patterns regarding the Shards. For example, having two opposite forces to create, a triad of magic systems and things like that.
One of the constants I believe should be that any "magic" comes from the energy from creation, through a Shard. He said that the way it comes out or the form it takes (the "magic effects") will depend upon the Realmatics (or something like that, I believe he means the World and Realm mechanics  ).
Furthermore, he says we have met 6 Shards (R&P, 2 others who have interacted, 1 power, 1 influence). I just can suppose he refers to series widely known to everybody and not just a few Chosen (that is, Elantris, Mistborn and Warbreaker).

So, I believe we have 2 Shards in each of this worlds, and that each one is opposite to the other in their world. As you have pointed out, they don't have to be at war, in Elantris they could be Life and Death or Energy and Rest or some other duality which will not be confronted but complementary.
Also, they could be at war, but they are not in the same stage as in Mistborn. In Mistborn, we have the Final Battle. In Warbreaker we see conflict in a minor scale (some people who want to get rid of their rulers). In Elantris conflict is very high, the Wyrn wants to dominate the world and kill every arelean or teosian.

And after this runt, if you are been so nice as to keep reading, thank you and here is something maybe can help us discern whether there are Shards active or not in a world and its general "alignment"(or maybe not, who knows  ).
Magic has a source. Its source has to be something which is part of a Shard, because all magic effects must come from the power of creation (this is something I have to assume and have no final evidence to, but we are theorizing....). So, any magic effect must be "fueled" by something. And this something can tell us (if we think about it) if the magic leads to general "good" or "evil".
For example, in Elantris we have the Dor. This seems to me much like the Mists (although less physical). So, I assume that this must be the body(=power) of a Shard. We have 3 ways to channel it, Aons, ChayShin and Dakhor. This one seems generally "good", although the "Dakhor effects" (not the enhancements, which are permanent), need sacrifice, but maybe they are using another magic system (remember that Inquisitors could have Allomancy, Ferruchemy and Hemalurgy).
In Warbreaker we have Breath. It seems to me like what we know of Preservation. There is a spark of Preservation in every human in Scadrel. Maybe this is something similar. Difference is, this spark can be given away, received and stored. I don't know what to think of this, but it seems like the "Spirit" of a Shard, whatever it is. This is something of a "neutral" magic, neither you lose or gain, present or steal.

I will end this suddenly because I fear I made a long post and I am starting to rant. I'm sorry, my second post and I'm doing it.....
Well, let's see what comes of it. I'm still on page 8 of the HoA spoilers so, I probably miss a lot of things. Thank you for reading 

Hello all.
My name is Antonio (although I will only use it in this post), and was born and live in Sevilla (Spain).
I came to this forum (as many people these last months, it seems) when I finished all the books by Brandon Sanderson I could buy, borrow or download from his kind webpage.
I still name myself a RPGamer, although it's hard to play now, even being married to another RPGamer and bookadict. Our income goes to rent, books and bookshelves, mainly 
We have Xbox and Wii and DS and a good Pc, but it's not time for videogames (they are about 50% more expensive here in Europe than in the US, soooooo  )
Books are even more expensive here in Spain (WoT cost about 400% than Tor's paperbacks) but.... we have internet, Visa and a good english, so we won't be starving for a while 

See you around.