Fairy tales linked to violent relationships

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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1540&ncid=1540&e=2&u=/afp/20050422/sc_afp/sciencebritainwomen_050422114707

Oh please. I think there's a lot more going on in those relationships than the women liking Cinderella. What the story--and apparently the researcher--fail to recognize is there are abundantly more versions of such fairy tales than just the Disney versions, and even if Disney has become synonomous with "fairy tale," you would think that stories like Beauty and the Beast would actually be in the "less submissive" category. And "submissive" is a problematic word anyway--there's a difference between "submissive" in scriptural terms, for example, and being willing to be a doormat to an abuser.

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well, this looks like a paper done by a graduate student to support her own opinions 9and graduate). There would really need to be a long term study done to make this credible. Not just a few case studies.

Course, many people who probably dodn't like fairy tales to begin with have already jumped on the band wagon.

[Archon]

From a standpoint that is purely opinion i.e. not based on taking psychology classes, I would say that it isn't that the women are more submissive. In my opinion, the reason for this would be that the women that grow up reading about all of these cases of true love are more likely to believe in love, and therefore, they would be less likely to leave an abusive relationship. I should think that they would be more likely to believe that their spouses truly love them, and that things will change them, because fairy tales typically show that love triumphs over adversity. True, it isn't usually that kind of adversity, or at least in my limited experience with fairy tales, but I still think the association could be readily made.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I think to believe in "true love" in an abusive relationship shows more emotional/psychological problems than liking a type of movie can CAUSE.

[Skar]

Did the article mention exactly which class of fairy-tales these girls were growing up on?  I didn't notice if it did.

If it was the Disney versions, ergo watered down, totally limp, and aimed precisely at the warm fuzzy versions then I think they may easily have had the effect the researcher is talking about.   For example, if these women were raised in abusive households and were able to tolerate the situation by escaping into fairy tales they might have carried a higher tolerance for abuse into their adult relationships.  I don't think it's likely that the disneytales were the only thing that led to them living with abusive relationships though.

If it was the the "traditional" fairy-tales, like Grimm's and even grimmer versions then I'd be interested to follow further research.  Because I would expect the opposite to happen.

If I remember correctly, most of the "older" versions show the hero/heroine overcoming by their own wits and bravery while the Disney (read modern) versions mostly rely on Deus Ex Machina either just at the end, like the whole Cinderella good fairy thing or throughout as in Little Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast where the characters are almost exclusively reacting instead of acting.

Disney seems to follow a pattern of the hero/heroine doing something dumb that gets them in trouble, and then they are saved from that trouble by magic or fairies or the good king and then they do something dumb again, get in trouble and are again saved.  Of course, in real life, the magic, fairies and good kings never show up.

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The article implies that the "classic" fairy tales are the Disney tales, which is just plain wrong. I have no idea about the dissertation, whether the researcher specified Disney versions or Grimms' and Perrault's versions. The thing about fairy tales is that there is no one form of a "classic" fairy tale. Some of the heroes and heroines are helped out by magical helpers, some survive on their own wits. There are several different versions of every "classic" tale, such as Rapunzel, Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella, and so forth. Beauty and the Beast actually traces back to the Greek myth of Cupid and Psyche. Cinderella has been found in several different forms in almost every culture of the world. There's something deep about these stories that we have held onto for millennia, and I don't think it has to do with making women submissive.

I just spent the last semester looking at these tales in depth, and I have to say that the woman is simply way off base. I agree with SE--it feels like a master's thesis that was manufactured to fit a shocking idea.

Of course, in real life, the magic, fairies and good kings never show up.

But this often happens in fairy tales. Disney is actually just following in a very long tradition (of a particular style of storytelling). Yet I can see how the changes in Cinderella and Snow White, especially, would encourage that particular mindset. But I would argue that they reflect a cultural belief, rather than espouse something that had no origin.

[Mistress of Darkness]

"They believe if their love is strong enough they can change their partner's behaviour," Darker-Smith said.

Umm, did loving her step-mother change behavior in either Cinderella or Snow White?

Okay then!

I think it's another attempt to blame The Man for shortcomings in parenting and taking responsibility for one's own life.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Which is funny, because I blame The Man for Disney.

[origamikaren]

I think to believe in "true love" in an abusive relationship shows more emotional/psychological problems than liking a type of movie can CAUSE.

I was in an abusive relationship once (a college roommate -- not even a man).  Before that, I couldn't imagine why anyone would possibly stay with someone who hurt them on a regular basis. I can tell you, though, that it wasn't about thinking about having the fairy tale romance, or even about dreaming that I could change her.  What kept me in that relationship was that I thought she needed me in her life, and I desperately needed to be needed.  

Now, I won't deny that I had serious emotional/psychological problems, because I did, but I will say that it is VERY easy to let something like that happen, and VERY hard to get out once you're there.  The dynamics of these relationships make it so that the person who is hurt accepts all the guilt and blame for the event, so it's hard to realize what's happening.

I do NOT want to say that accepting that kind of treatment is good or right, but that you shouldn't judge somebody as abnormal or crazy just for being in the situation.

Rereading your quote, I can see that that's not really what you meant when you said it, I'm reacting more to the general stigmas of society than your specific statement.

-Karen

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I'll be the first to acknowledge that it's often hard to recognize that somethign needs a change. I suffer from clinical depressions, which, even when I spent months at a time in high school moping and not having hte energy to do anything at all, I found to be an unlikely possibility. Until it was finally presented to me directly by someone I trusted. I can't imagine that knowing you're in an abusive relationship is easier to recognize. Life adds so many shades of gray to things that at their most basic level others think is black and white.

I'm just again' blaming Disney, however sacherine and doofy their movies may be to you, is goign to be a productive solution. I just usually put things much more bluntly than that.