Author Topic: Hate Mail????  (Read 5914 times)

Hero of Ages

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Hate Mail????
« on: April 19, 2008, 06:33:54 AM »
See EUOL's blog for a very interesting hate mail he recieved.  http://brandonsanderson.com/blog/632/Reader-Mail

I love it when people totally blow things out of proportion.  That reader strikes me as some one who is probably between 13 and 16 maybe 17.

To opine on EUOL's comments.

1)  Well said.  Look no further than the book (and movie) "Neverending Story."  The whole premise is that the stories have no start and no end, just places and times where we join and leave the story.

2)  It is called set up.  The loose ends not only let the reader imagine what the characters do next, but they allow the author a springboard for any sequels should the book sell well enough.  (And Elantris has by all measures.)

3)  WE (the readers) would love to see a sequel.  That being said, it needs to be done in the time and matter so as to preclude those unbalanced readers (i.e. the sender of the hate mail) from saying it was rushed and it sucked and they aren't going to read EUOL's books anymore.

4)  Bingo!!!!!

5)  Can't wait for my book to come out.  (A side note to EUOL, you gotta make me and my wife, who hates all Fantasy/Sci-Fi books except yours, alpha readers.  Please!!!!  I even give you my kid's college fund if you do.  Granted there isn't anything in it yet, but it is yours none the less.)

6)  Nice shameless plug!!
I must not fear;
Fear is the mind killer;
I will face my fear;
I will let it pass through me;
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing;
Only I will remain.
-Paul Muad'dib Atreides-

Anticipation of death is worse than death itself.
-Me-

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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2008, 08:14:11 AM »
I will admit, I was a bit disappointed as well that Elantris didn't have a sequel. Now, I will also say that I thought the ending of the book was downright brilliant (always have). I thought it ended at an excellent point and really, the book is not about the war with Shu-Dereth. It is about restoring the power of Elantris. I mean, it's called "Elantris" and not "Fighting Against Tyrants". Come on, man, the main plot was resolved.

But, I was in the age of endless sequels. Things had sequels, so you expected there to be sequels. So, when I first read the Elantris paperback, it had a preview to Mistborn. I read the first few paragraphs, realized it wasn't an Elantris sequel, and I actually never finished that preview.

Despite my slight anger towards the lack of sequel, I never really found myself disgusted with the product as a whole. If you can't grin in wonder as the Elantris puzzle was solved, then really, you just picked the wrong book.

(And of course, as I read Mistborn, I was immediately engrossed.)

From my own novel writing, I suppose I would have "world-builders disease" in one of my settings. At one point, I thought I could write ten individual trilogies. The sequels and prequels were all natural extrapolations to the questions raised in the "first book". Like, when you introduce an item of infinite power, you should wonder how it was created. My thinking was there were more interesting stories to be told about how that item was created and how it related to other things, both in the past and present.

What that little anecdote shows is that there are always more stories to tell. Elantris, if Brandon so desired, could go on forever. He could tell numerous prequels about an early Elantris, how it was created, and the early days of AonDor. There could be stories about the origins of Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth. There could be stories about the fall of the Duladen Republic (myself, I wouldn't mind reading more about Hrannis and what he did there, he's my favorite character). There are sequels as well, with Elantris now being restored. Brandon could write a story about rebuilding Arelon, much like he did in Mistborn 2, and that could also have a similar political overtone with fighting with Wyrn.

Personally, I would read those books. I like Elantris, and those sound like pretty cool plot ideas. But writing isn't merely about resolving plot points. You see, like my own writing, Elantris can go on forever. Thousands of years into the future, if you really felt like. Heck, you could write a story about Elantris in a sci-fi environment, maybe trying to reconcile technology with Elantrian magic.

The question of writing, however, is not to satisfy the author's whims of worldbuilding. Good writing and good sequels, in my opinion, should not just merely be the extensions of the questions brought up in book one. There should be new ideas continually forming to continue reader interest. Now, if there is a dedicated fanbase, there will be reader interest solely placed in the setting. But, I would hardly consider setting pieces very good.

I will first cite Isaac Asimov's Foundation series (which I wholeheartedly recommend for an intellectual read). It began as a trilogy, which was fantastic. Basically, it told about the huge Galactic Empire collapsing, and this scientist named Hari Seldon created the science of psychohistory, which could, in essence, predict the large scale picture of what humans would do. So, Seldon created this Foundation which, after a thousand years of tribulations, would form a new, greater Second Galactic Empire.

The Foundation series focuses on this Foundation and the tribulations it went through. Asimov's original trilogy ended only 200 years into the 1000. Naturally, fans wanted more, so Asimov wrote two more sequels some thirty years later. I thought the first of those two, Foundation's Edge, to be phenomenal. With that book, he didn't just increase the tribulations to the Foundation. He tinkered with the formula by introducing a separate entity from the two Foundations (I won't go into detail there, but Seldon created two Foundations), which was extremely interesting. The new idea integrated into that setting, I think, made it a fantastic book, and I would say it is even superior to the original trilogy.

Foundation's Edge is the pinnacle of sequels, where you both expound in setting and provide a feeling of new (and wonder). In this, there should be very interesting characters as well, which Edge also succeeded in. It was fantastic. Now, the Foundation series was so popular fans wanted more. He created Foundation and Earth, another sequel. I didn't like it as much as Edge, but it was all right. Now, the series continued to be so popular, so Asimov debated on writing another sequel. He had immense difficulty with even prewriting. I suspect this was because another sequel would only expound, but not add to the series as a whole.

See, Foundation never ended with the formation of the Second Galactic Empire. That was the ultimate end, and to this angry reader, he would be angry that the plot wasn't "wrapped up". But the ultimate end, I think, is actually quite boring. Just like many Hero's Journey stories, the end--the Dark Lord defeated--is not extraordinarily surprising. How it happened is. So with Foundation, the journey was more important than the end, too. Imagine a hero's journey story where the Dark Lord doesn't die, but it merely is implied he dies. You'd be angry, but you wouldn't be surprised.

Asimov caved into the fan pressure and wrote two prequels, and I really didn't think they were that great of books. Too much of the same old, so the sequels got boring and monotonous. In their defense, they had good "expounding" plotlines, but it really wasn't that new.

I'm also going to reference Lord of the Rings, though not in great detail (mostly because I am mostly ignorant on the subject). I would say Tolkien had world-builders disease. He has this huge world with thousands of years of history. Basically, all of the other side-stories in Middle-earth are really just expounding stories. Interesting? Maybe if you really love the world, but it isn't exactly a cauldron of new ideas, if you get my meaning.

I think Brandon does not want to write merely "expounding" stories. From what I've read of his books and his annotations, I don't think an expounding sequel would drive enough interest in him. It would require new, interesting ideas to motivate him to write an Elantris sequel.

Under this model, I defend Elantris's ending. Elantris ended by solving the main "idea" of the book--the thing that drove author interest--about the fallen Elantrian gods, which, I thought, made it very satisfactory (EUOL, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that). Because settings go on for infinity, really the only thing that can JUSTIFY an ending is to solve the main idea/conflict in the book. That's just good storytelling.

Maybe, Mr. Angry Reader, you just enjoy expounding-styled stories. That's fine. But I don't think Brandon is that kind of writer. In an Elantris sequel, I think you will see a lot more than just Arelon fighting Wyrn. That could definitely be an element, but I am absolutely certain there would be plenty of "new" to go along with that.

And I must say, in my own setting that I have, while I could write 30 novels, that doesn't mean it would be a good idea to do that. Stories must be interesting, so I could see 30 was WAY too much. I cut back severely, moving plot points around. In effect, I could see that the story itself could fit satisfactorily in one trilogy--even a single novel, if worked properly. Would there be more history? Yes. Would I probably know what happens later? Yes. But that is world-building, not book-building. Try to enjoy the story, not just the world the story is in.
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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2008, 01:28:13 PM »
Well ! Would I wish to receive a letter like this !

This is actually the letter of an angry lover ! Poor thing !  I pity his future girlfriend. He will transform her into... a pretty thing wearing a pink dress, a blond whig and seating on gold.

I'll say like Hero of Ages, he must be young not to realize that no stories ends with any last pages. You have to put an end somewhere. Before starting to read Elantris, I also read that it was a single, meant to be a single and that Brandon wanted to write more of those because it is lacking in the Fantasy world. Well, yes, you have to be rich if you want to read fantasy, I tell you ! Especially if you like Tolkien (by the way, there is something like 20 years between Bilbo and the first publishing of the LotR), Hobb (who thought she was writing a trilogy... and ended writing 3 in the same world), Jordan (hum... do I have to remind everyone here that is 12th book will be post-mortem and yet he will not be the only author of it ? We have to excuse him, of course. He passed away after all !). All this to say I appreciated the fact that it would be a single but I was left disappointed at the end. I could see thousands of things that could be dig, material for more plots and stories, all left there. I first wrote unfinished lol Well, no stories is ever finished like Brandon says, but books are. And beside, a novel is not meant to be a closed story ! This little one has to study the genre a little more.

I would suggest, therefore, if Brandon would have the patience to answer, that he does not have to justify himself. He could try to explain (without much hope of being understood, mind you, teenagers have a tendency not to want to understand the ways of life when they wrongly fixed their mind on an idea, no personnal offense to anyone) the idea of singles without closing the door completely. Actually, I see that the answer, whatever it would be, would only exist to tell this young and sad fan that his words have been read and not consider trash. I'm not certain it would be good for his enormous ego, though.

I would just mention that most of the books published under the name of Tolkien were not meant, at the beginning, to be published (beside those already mentionned, you add the Silmarillon and that's it). All of what we call the HoMEs (History of Middle Earth) were simple notes, drafts, to build Middle Earth and its environment. Christopher, his son, is the one that gathered them and published them, mainly so fans would find answers to their own questions after his father's death. Tolkien would answer most of his writers, dig some more in his own world to do so sometimes. His readers were important to him. I wish I would know if he ever received such a love letter as Brandon did lol

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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2008, 08:17:36 PM »
Quote
"There's always another secret,"
;D

I personally, loved Elantris to pieces, and loved the ending as well **(Possibile Limited Spoilers ahead, sorry)****  Anyway, sure all the question weren't answered, but in what book do they get answered.  Mistborn is actually unique in the way it goes beyond the intial plot arc (the fall of the lord ruler,) most stories stop after the dark lord is defeated.  In a way, I think it is impossible to end any story, especially fantasy, because the author has created an entirely new world which is strange to us, think about the amazing and complex world we live in and think, could that all be made into a story.  The answer is no, absolutely not, so how can you expect everything from the world of elantris to be summed up in 600-1000 pages.  It just wouldn't work, and I presonally think it's a little childish for someone to throw a tantrum and hate all of an authors works simply because he still has unanswered questions, there are never answers fro everything.  I've disliked entire books by some authors, but have loved others, and this guy is going to throw out all literary works by Brandon, even though he obviously invested himself fully into the Elantris world, and loved it, and was just a little disatisfied with the ending, that's just childish.

Sorry about the rant, I grow frustrated with people who complain about things like this, I know a couple of them in real life, and I think they give our age range  a bad name sometimes.
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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2008, 04:19:07 AM »
The greatest epics in history are great BECAUSE they have no end. Life is not a story with a beginning and an end, stories are merely chapters of life.

The Wheel of Time is that one series that, when you want more and more, has more and more to give. Elantris is not. It is a beautiful cross-section of time and place, immortalized in words that I could never hope to imitate.

In the world of Elantris, the people had lived, their ancestors had lived and loved and laughed and died right up until the point Brandon opened a portal to allow us a glimpse into their lives. They and their prodigy will continue to do so afterwards, whether we have the pleasure of reading their adventures or not.

That is a mark of great literature, when something can inspire such extreme feeling in another, be it hatred or love.  That is another mark, when a story is so intense that we can believe in the past leading up to the events we witness and believe in the future after them.

The person's accusations were harsh, but to truly despise something, one must have loved it, once.
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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2008, 12:51:32 AM »
Wow, so I take it this would be your first hate mail after mine?

Personally I think this reader was over reacting, and might not have read very much literature.  Something you often come across in almost all forms of fiction is the cliff hanger.  Whether it be in between chapters or books, it makes little difference.  Read at all and you're going to find it.  It's something authors use to build emotion and suspense, to get their readers imaginations going.  Being angry about it simply wastes energy, just RAFO really. 

It has been my observation that experienced readers usually express nothing more than mild annoyance, if anything at the advent of a cliff hanger.  However I have noticed that far too often, annoyingly so, people of my age or close to it tend to express disproportionate rage at the merest hint of not having the facts laid completely bare.  Specifically gamers.  The amount of people who hated Halo 2 that I talked to mainly had nothing more to say then 'the ending sucked, it didn't finish the story!'  When I encountered the ending it didn't even phase me because I had read enough to be familiar with the plot device. 

Sadly people my age seem to be conditioned to laziness.  They want the instant gratification of knowing the answers to their questions immediately and not being required to think.  When pushed to such they react with anger, such as this reader has.  They seem to think that they deserve to know everything with no work.

A few of you have made mention of Tolkien.  Something that few casual readers realize, and even less that have only seen the movies, is that the story of Middle Earth has very little to do with Sauron or Frodo.  It's exactly that; the story of Middle Earth.  The Lord of the Rings is simply a small part of that elaborate history that Tolkien spent his life developing.  Middle Earth was created decades before The Hobbit, and it extended decades afterwards.  The story is about the setting entirely, the history of the world.  The Simlarilion illustrates this perfectly, where you learn that Sauron and Gandalf are actually the same type of being, Miar.  You also learn that Sauron pales in comparison to the enemy that took thousands of years and the help of gods to defeat, Morgoth.  Sauron was actually only one of Morgoth's lieutenants. 

Anyway, I just woke up from a nap, so this probably isn't the most linear of posts, but whatever.
"elantris or evisceration"-Entropy.

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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2008, 03:19:41 PM »
I still have to read Elantris, but I am sure I will be satisfied when I do.  The person who wrote that email obviously has some much deeper problems than a book with an ending he/she didn't like.  I hope he never has to read The Lady and the Tiger.  Heaven forbit the author allows you to use your imagination.  Maybe EUOL should ask this person what he/she expected to learn that was not told?  I find that most times when people are this irrational they are easily defeated by giving them the opportunity to explain their point of view.  Or, just send a picture of a big teddy bear and write "AWWWWW, does somebody need a big hug?"  :P

It's funny, you've got this guy on one end of the spectrum and then all the people who think Wheel of Time should have ended 5 books ago.  It just proves that you can't make everyone happy.
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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2008, 04:47:40 PM »
Kinda sounds like how my older brother who tore my first book apart, but I'm glad he did.

I could not help but laugh at some parts of that email though..."I do not regret to inform you that i will not be reading anymore of your trash in the fear that the book/garbage will not be completed due to you lack of professionalism".

I've learned that no matter what you write, someone will not like it for some reason or another. Just take what information might be valuable to you and save it for the future...omit the rest. Thank the sender for his feedback. Grant it, I have not read Elantris yet, but I LOVE Mistborn so far. I just know you'll be one of Fantasy's greats. I've never really read fantasy other than lotr until now, thanks to you EUOL.

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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2008, 05:23:31 AM »
I have to agree with pretty much everything said here so far. Elantris was a good story, and a good primer for Brandon to break onto the scene, but it's just fine left how it is. It wraps everything up that it needs to and doesn't give you too much extraneous information, unlike some authors I've read who just keep dragging things out.

My first experience with Elantris (like many around here now) came about as a result of Brandon becoming RJs successor, and trying to make sure he could do the job. We wanted to make sure he wouldn't do like Tolkien and turn the potential for a wonderful book into an agonizing steep in the depths of hedes, or like Card, who is an admittedly wonderful author, but can't really finish a book right... Brandon doesn't exhibit either problem in the least. He's sharp, witty and is the Master of the Twist, as Elantris proved and Mistborn keeps verifying.

As readers, we have a right to critique, but keep in mind that writing is an art, and authors have to express themselves as they see fit, especially when they have earned the right time and time again as Brandon now has.
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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 05:36:13 AM »
The person who wrote that email obviously has some much deeper problems than a book with an ending he/she didn't like.  I hope he never has to read The Lady and the Tiger.  Heaven forbit the author allows you to use your imagination. 

I actually immediately thought of that when I read this originally, but it got lost somewhere.  It's an excellent example of exactly what this individual is complaining about, and really its a perfectly masterful story.  Props to the best English teacher I've ever had for introducing it to me.
"elantris or evisceration"-Entropy.

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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 07:37:16 PM »
This is actually the letter of an angry lover ! Poor thing !  I pity his future girlfriend. He will transform her into... a pretty thing wearing a pink dress, a blond whig and seating on gold.

Isn't there a quote about setting something free if you really love it?  Maybe that applies to books as well...

darxbane

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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2008, 09:27:30 PM »
Enough speculation!  It's teenage hormones!  How else could you be that invested in a story that's less than 300k words?  EUOL didn't get this on April fool's day, did he?
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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2008, 09:08:12 AM »
I don't think he would have taken the time to write a lengthy blog on the subject if he wasn't taking it seriously, on some level. This person obviously feels very strongly about this, and as was stated previously, you can't hate something this strongly unless you loved it equally strongly at some point. I hope the author of the letter takes time to calm down, and picks up another of Brandon's books, because if they don't I believe they will be missing out on watching a good writer become a great one. Every one of Brandon's books has been an improvement, in my opinion, and as he hones his skills it keeps getting better. To discount everything an author may do in the future on the basis of their freshman outing isn't the smartest thing in the world to do, in my opinion.

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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2008, 02:45:51 PM »
Hahaha, I'm sorry, would they have preffered a Harry Potter Ending? Oh, what an epilogue...

Or a story which goes until the characters die of old age or syphillis (okay, not likely in a EUOL book but maybe in a Pratchett one...)? You get my drift here...

Ugh, who wants to read epiloguies that pigeonhole every character into their roles after the book is over? Yuck.
Imagination's cool. I'd like to think there's always another adventure on the horizon or whatever for the characters...

... On the subject from letters from readers, here's the fan letter excerpts James Gurney (Dinotopia) has on his page. It's pretty hilarious as most are letters from primary school children and many are kind of backhanded compliments...

and some totally random ones, like asking him what age their teacher is because she won't tell them (and evidently since he draws dinosaurs he can unravel the mystery... or something apporaching that logic)... anyway, here's the link:
http://www.dinotopia.com/fanzone.html


It's interesting to see what kind of fan mail books from different genres get.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 02:56:07 PM by White »
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darxbane

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Re: Hate Mail????
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2008, 08:57:48 PM »
I was just curious.  Maybe he didn't look at the sent date?  It's just, the more I think about it, the more insanely irrational it becomes.  You'd think EUOL sold this guy's (it's just too angry to be a woman) parents into slavery to pay for the book's printing, and he didn't give their location out during the story so he could find them again.  My 19 month-old is more together than this, and he still throws himself on the floor when he doesn't get his way!  I just can't stop thinking that someone sent it as a joke, and now it is too big to say "just kidding" without upsetting everyone.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.