Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Books => Topic started by: mtbikemom on August 15, 2009, 04:32:37 PM
-
Hey, fellow time-wasters, I am having a bit of a difficult time finding fantasy reviews that reflect my own sensibilities. I'm tired of starting a recommended book, getting attached to certain characters and story lines and then, all of a sudden and often unnecessarily, the graphic sex, torture, really sick stuff in general . . . kicks in and I have to skip, scan ahead and decide whether or not to continue reading. I generally put the thing down and brood over the wasted time.
I sense that there are others on this forum whose preferences run in the same vein as mine. I can handle a certain amount of graphic detail, especially violence, as long as it does not cross the line into indulging the sick fantasies of the author. (George RRM comes to mind as I've ranted before.) This seems hard to avoid in most modern fiction and I would like to avoid it.
SOOOO, what have you read and loved that you would feel comfortable passing on to a beloved, impressionable son, daughter, niece, nephew?
As an example, I did a Google search for "good traditional fantasy" and came up with a few book lists on Amazon lately. I decided to try Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay. There was a sex scene early on and it was very well-written, but had an element of pain/pleasure that I considered potentially unhealthy. It was so well done, though, that I am still reading and hoping I don't regret it. The way Kay writes the inner thoughts of his characters rings very true to me, unlike some authors who practically castrate their young male characters to avoid writing about sex at all. Both extremes are not to my liking. I've gotta believe my fantasy to enjoy it!
I read a lot of YA (young adult) novels to keep my heart and mind where they ought to be and indulge my passion for a good story. I think a lot of YA is just as good, if not better, than most of what is put out for general consumption, so please include any really good YA novels you have come across, if anyone posts here. Patrick Carman is a favorite.
I know there are a lot of gray areas on this topic and that the line is not a fine one and that one person's "clean content" is another's semi-porn, but I hope to get a few good recommendations out of this and discover previously unknown gems of fantasy. Sci fi is also welcome.
-
You should try the Merry Gentry series by Laurell K. Hamilton.
(Ducks all of the things thrown at him).
Ok, J/K.
Actually, the first one that comes to mind is Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series. It's really good and about as clean as they get.
Aprillynne Pike's Wings is also very clean. It's more of a modern fantasy thought. I girl in high school discovers that shes a fairy.
Robin Hobb's Assassin's Apprentice was pretty clean, and very good.
I'd give Roger Zelazny's Amber books a light PG-13 rating. It's also my favorite series period.
You also won't find anything cleaner then David Farland's Runelord series.
I seem to remember the Deeds of Paksanarion to be very clean as well. And a great Fantasy series. Really cool Paladins.
E. E. Knight has a series about Dragons. The first book is called Dragon Champion. Everyone should read it. Best Dragon book ever written IMO and E. E. Knight is the best author that no one knows about.
-
I read a lot of romantic/fantasy, and most of it is YA, so let me run through some of my favorite authors.
Mercades Lackey. As I recall the most sexual thing she wrote was the character didn't think he knew what another was doing and then it was "correction, he did know what he was doing." (it makes more sense in context). Her 500 Kingdoms is more chick-lit, but the early Valdamar has some good stuff.
Jane Yolen "Sister Light/Sister Dark"
Cassandra Claire (clare? Clair? Clare? It's one of the three)
Robin McKinley
I'll add more when I'm not helping my brother with his drivers ed.
-
Thanks, Rainbow!
-
Actually, the first one that comes to mind is Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series. It's really good and about as clean as they get.
Aprillynne Pike's Wings is also very clean. It's more of a modern fantasy thought. I girl in high school discovers that shes a fairy.
Robin Hobb's Assassin's Apprentice was pretty clean, and very good.
I'd give Roger Zelazny's Amber books a light PG-13 rating. It's also my favorite series period.
You also won't find anything cleaner then David Farland's Runelord series.
I seem to remember the Deeds of Paksanarion to be very clean as well. And a great Fantasy series. Really cool Paladins.
E. E. Knight has a series about Dragons. The first book is called Dragon Champion. Everyone should read it. Best Dragon book ever written IMO and E. E. Knight is the best author that no one knows about.
I don't want anything too clean, unless it is as good as Brandon's. I've commented that Mistborn, as wonderful as that was, left me a little empty because certain sexual feelings were largely ignored that really should have been included. I just don't want to read anything disgusting, y'know?
I've always thought that Robert Jordan struck a good balance. Most of the sex is off-camera and some of it included the humor that I think is lacking in most male authors depictions, especially of first encounters.
Thanks, Erik! E.E. Knight sounds intriguing. I love finding good, unknown authors.
-
Been meaning to read Robin Hobb.
-
Only read one of Daniel Abraham's books so far (A Shadow In Summer, the beginning of the Long Price Quartet), but he's an excellent author and I don't remember any excessiveness in there.
Kay is the other one who comes to mind, but you've already mentioned him. Most of his sex scenes are a little easier to get past than the one in Tigana you mentioned.
-
I don't want anything too clean, unless it is as good as Brandon's. I've commented that Mistborn, as wonderful as that was, left me a little empty because certain sexual feelings were largely ignored that really should have been included. I just don't want to read anything disgusting, y'know?
I've always thought that Robert Jordan struck a good balance. Most of the sex is off-camera and some of it included the humor that I think is lacking in most male authors depictions, especially of first encounters.
Thanks, Erik! E.E. Knight sounds intriguing. I love finding good, unknown authors.
Ok, in that case:
Read the Amber books by Roger Zelazny first. They are amazing and you won't ever read anything like them again.
You might like E. E. Knights Vampire Earth books. There's sex, swearing, etc. But its not really graphic or anything. I think the most graphic sex scene might be when he and his partner are pretending to have sex so that the informant in the next room can't hear them. She yells and moans, while he pushes the bed back and forth with his foot while debriefing her. But that's like in book Four.
And I'll say this: David Valentine, the Protagonist of The Vampire Earth series, is the most heroic character I've ever read about. Just hardcore valiant. Imagine if every day when you went to work you had to be a character in a horror movie, and knew it. Today you're one of the Marines in Aliens. Now you're one of the campers at Crystal Lake. Now you're a police officer during Dawn of the Dead. Can you infiltrate Nazi Germany? Oh ya, its full of Vampires.
The Vampire Earth: If The Red Badge of Courage had been written by H.P. Lovecraft
David Valentine is Metal.
-
Bookstore Guy just created a review site (http://elitistbookreviews.blogspot.com/) and at the bottom of each review he gives a content rundown.
I second the Amber recommendation. Despite some typos still present in the most recent editions (yeah, I obsess a bit), it's an awesome read. The series is earthy without being dark or dirty, and my favorite fantasy series ever.
-
Thanks Sort, I was just about to link the review site Nick and I run.
Look, mtbikemom, I get where you are coming from. That's why we put a content breakdown at the bottom of every review. Really what we try to do is give you enough info--without spoilers--so you can decide if all these millions of books out there are ok for you. Head over there and start reading our reviews, hopefully some of them will grab you, and you'll follow the inbedded links to Amazon and grab some stuff (that's the only place we really shop now).
In the mean time, until we get more reviews up, here are some good reads:
EE Knight (Erik is right, his Vampire Earth series is great - there is some sex and swearing, but its not graphic)
David Farland
Scott Westerfield (YA - I prefer the Midnighters series)
Simon R Green - Nightside series (swearing, but no sex)
James Clemens (simple fantasy, along the simple lines like Jordan wrote)
Steven Erikson (this is very, very, hard fantasy. hardest learning curve, but well worth the read)
David Weber (military SF)
Those will keep you busy for a while. And keep an eye on the blog, we do lots of reviews.
elitistbookreviews.blogspot.com
-
My favorite 'adult' series is still Deathgate by Weis and Hickman. It has some innuendos (especially in the second book) but I don't remember anything being on screen. But then, it has elves so I don't know how popular they would be on here.
I can also recommend lots of YA/middle grade stuff if you need more of those because, above all, I refuse to grow up and like jumping around sections.
:P
-
Oh, I love this question.
Mercy Thompson books by Patricia Briggs - these are urban fantasy but still a lot of fun.
Shards of Honor by Lois McMaster Bujold - great space opera.
Death of the Necromancer and Fall of Ile-Rien series by Martha Wells - cool Victorianish and WWI-like settings
Cast in Shadow by Michelle Sagara - oh so much fun
Anything by Patricia McKillip - she has really beautiful prose
YA recommends
Anything by Patricia Wrede
Anything by Robin McKinley (except Sunshine and maybe Deerskin)
Anything by Diana Wynne Jones (especially Howl's Moving Castle)
Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud
I also really like Jasper Fforde, but he has a good bit of bad language, and I like Steven Brust, though his books aren't to everyone's taste since the main character of his Vlad series is an assassin and the Phoenix Guards series is written in mock Alexandre Dumas style.
What other things do you like, mtbikemom?
-
So, I haven't read a whole lot of YA stuff. I'm sure that there is a whole lot out there that would be great for teens and adolescents. In fact, I'd probably suggest that most teens and adolescents stay in that realm of books because there can be soooo much "content" in some books. Even some of the really good ones (eg. Bakker/Abercrombie).
I just finished the Long Price quartet and absolutely loved it. I'd suggest these to just about any group of college-age kids. There is some swearing (most of it is concentrated in the first book) and probably constitutes a PG-13 "movie-like" rating. The sex is very well done and non-explicit from what I recall. In general, Abraham stays very high-level with his sexual encounters--even in his urban fantasy book. On a large scale, I'd probably set this series as a little more detailed than Jordan's WOT books. Violence is low. There are people that get killed, and there is a war in the third book (no spoilers, as the book is entitled "An Autumn War"). I suggested that my younger brother read this series and had no problems with doing so. This was an amazing series. Hands down.
As far as other series with minimal content, try:
KJ Parker's Engineer Trilogy (minimal swearing, no sex, no graphic violence)
Temeraire by Naomi Novik
Writers of the Future anthologies (these are targeted toward a high-school audience)
Shannara series by Terry Brooks
Dune books by Herbert
Dragonlance by Weiss and Hickman
Seventh Son series by OSC
Some decent ideas, anyhow.
-
What other things do you like, mtbikemom?
Ooh, I love that question! Who doesn't love talking about themselves. (humility check; need more)
I love Jane Austen, Anne McCaffrey, Terry Pratchett, the Bronte sisters, Carol Berg, Robert Jordan, Len Deighton (spy novels) and, of course, Tolkien for fiction, but not in that order and I've probably left some important ones out. My non-fiction author list is full of Christian missionary stories and treatises on intelligent design and history. I like to listen to YA novels on my Ipod.
Thanks to everyone who has posted recommendations. I hope this thread is useful to many.
-
The Deed of Paksennarrion is good, but there is a long and involved torture scene towards the end that made me mad I read all the other 600 pages just to get to that.
I love Dianna Wynne Jones. Officially most is YA but I know many adults who enjoy it.
Shannon Hale is good and she writes in a variety of genres.
-
The entire Miles Vorkosigan series by Bujold is great and pretty clean. I highly recommend it.
The Deed of Paksennarion trilogy by Elizabeth Moon is quite good, but it does have a small number of scenes that would not be appropriate for younger readers. Offhand I can think of two: the punishment and expulsion of two members of the mercenary company the main character is in for a fairly nasty crime in the first book, and the aforementioned torture scene near the end of the third book. The author is not shy about describing either of these, but I feel neither of them is gratuitous or there without a good reason. The first is fairly short and serves to drive home that the crime is being adequately punished (the crime scene itself could be considerably worse, but it is only described by investigation and discussion of the evidence after the fact). The second shows both just how nasty the bad guys are and how strong the will and faith of the protagonist is - the basic premise of the whole trilogy is "a paladin done right for once" - and the simple act of enduring the torture does a great deal to influence the audience to reconsider their path in life.
-
Hmmm. I'm not a hundred per cent sure you'd like this one, but in terms of adult fantasy you could always give Chris Wooding's "The Fade" a try. It's definitely a "grittier" kind of book. There's some sex, explicit without being graphic if that makes sense, and a lot of strong language and violence. Again, it's explicit without being too graphic, but it's not Martin or Abercrombie calibre violence. And it's an excellent book.
Like I said, not so sure about this recommendation, but the first 20 pages or so will probably give you a good idea of whether or not it's for you.
-
FYI: "Shannara series" is plural, not singular. I think he has at least 3 Shannara series. I thoroughly enjoyed the one I read in high school (the Scions series, which is the 2nd).
Wizard's First Rule is probably also something you'd enjoy, but absolutely do not read any of the other books in the series—the first is the only relatively clean one (IIRC—it's been some years).
-
Sorry, Jade Knight, but I despise Goodkind for many reasons and WFR left me eye-rolling. His writing just doesn't hold up against well-rounded authors like Brandon and RJ. I have a negative impression of Terry Brooks stuck in my brain, but have no idea why. I know I read a short story of his in a Tor anthology once. Maybe I didn't like it, but will try his books on your recommendation. From the library.
Douglas, I could not come up with the word "gratuitous" when I was posting. It would just not come, but it is what I am trying to avoid, obviously, in relation to sex, violence and language. Is the author letting the story flow are is he just trying to impress his "Jackass Generation" buddies? (My phrase, thank you very much.) A lot of R-rated movies fall into that category, I think, even though movies like "Up" make much more money. In cool Hollywood, most young producer/directors don't want to be known for making something like Princess Bride when they can get invited to all the best parties for making Kill Bill.
On second thought, I'm not sure, when given a choice between truly clean-but-realistic content, that I will choose to read a vampire-themed book, especially one that will offend in any way. So maybe E.E. Knight will not top my list quite yet. I know I have read and loved Patricia McKilip, but can't remember one title. Weird.
-
Technically, there are 6 different Shannara series. Half are good, beginners fantasy. The other half are re-hashes of the others.
Goodkind is icky. Through I am dying to get my hands on a free copy of his newest. Someone find me a PDF of Law of Nines and email it to me! I want to bash it on the review blog!
-
LOL at "icky." Perfect adjective in context. Can't wait to read the Goodkind bashfest.
-
On second thought, I'm not sure, when given a choice between truly clean-but-realistic content, that I will choose to read a vampire-themed book, especially one that will offend in any way. So maybe E.E. Knight will not top my list quite yet. I know I have read and loved Patricia McKilip, but can't remember one title. Weird.
E.E. Knights stuff isn't your typical vampire book. In fact, I wouldn't call it a vampire book at all.
The Vampire Earth series is about a group of aliens from another world that first bring down most of human civilization through wars and engineered disasters, then take over in a Nazi like fashion. Only under their rule, resisting doesn't get you sent to a camp, it gets you eaten.
The vampires aren't sexy Dracula's, but biologically engineered killing machines. The book is more like Terminator then anything else I think. But instead of living in a future where you are hunted by machines and robots, you're hunted by H.P. Lovecraft type creatures and monsters. It's more of a war story then anything else.
-
we have a review for the newest EE Knight on our blog tomorrow.
-
Douglas, I could not come up with the word "gratuitous" when I was posting. It would just not come, but it is what I am trying to avoid, obviously, in relation to sex, violence and language. Is the author letting the story flow are is he just trying to impress his "Jackass Generation" buddies? (My phrase, thank you very much.) A lot of R-rated movies fall into that category, I think, even though movies like "Up" make much more money. In cool Hollywood, most young producer/directors don't want to be known for making something like Princess Bride when they can get invited to all the best parties for making Kill Bill.
The author is female in this case, and my impression of it is that it's all story. Yes, it's a female character getting tortured for an extended period, and a considerable portion of it is quite explicit. Yes, rape is involved. However, it's all done on stage (religious cult following a god of torture, all the worshipers are there to watch), quite a bit of focus is on how the audience reacts to it, and long before it ends the actual torture starts getting glossed over and eventually almost omitted entirely and the scene's focus clearly settles on how a lot of the cult's members are realizing that this torture thing isn't as fun as they thought it would be. Oh, and all the actual rape comes after the glossing over begins.
So, yeah, substantial explicit torture in one major scene but done in a way that I recommend it anyway. The Deed of Paksennarion trilogy by Elizabeth Moon is an excellent read.
The Miles Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold is a better read and without any torture.
Read them both.
-
I... I'm suddenly fascinated to read this scene that you describe.
*scribbles down*
(Does that make me a bad person?)
-
Well, people do try to torture Miles, but he thwarts them by quoting the entire text of Richard III.
-
The Miles Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold is a better read and without any torture.
No, there's a quick torture scene (most of it happens off screen) in The Warrior's Apprentice. I second the recommendation.Well, people do try to torture Miles, but he thwarts them by quoting the entire text of Richard III.
I... don't remember that part....
-
(Does that make me a bad person?)
Only if you skip the rest of the trilogy to read only that scene.
Well, people do try to torture Miles, but he thwarts them by quoting the entire text of Richard III.
Really? Which book is this in? I don't remember that at all, but it sounds perfectly in character for him and I haven't actually read all of the series myself yet. Large portions of it, but not all of it.
No, there's a quick torture scene (most of it happens off screen) in The Warrior's Apprentice. I second the recommendation.
I don't doubt you, but it's short and minor enough that I don't remember it at all.
-
Well, people do try to torture Miles, but he thwarts them by quoting the entire text of Richard III.
I always loved that part. (From Brothers in Arms). ;D
From The Warrior's Apprentice--there's that bit with Bothari and the pilot. Ergh.
The things that Mark goes through in Mirror Dance kind of overshadowed my experience of the book the first time through. When I went back to it later I realized how short that section really is. And not very graphic, at that.... I think it's more the description of the psychological effects.
The Vorkosigan series is excellent (my very favorite series, in fact) but it does have a few things that may make it unsuitable for the OP's requirements. (There's that almost-rape scene in Shards of Honor.) Not graphic. I would probably recommend it to my mom, but not my twelve-year-old nephew. Yet.
-
I read it at approximately age 14 or maybe 15. Lois came to Books & Co during their sci-fi month and Diann Thornley introduced me to her and her books. Barrayar was her newest at the time, and I think Maureen McHugh was also there that month signing China Mountain Zhang. That gives me a good date range.
Anyway I kind of glossed over the near-rape scene. The series does not at all glory in sexual violence, that's for sure. I wouldn't read it if it did.
The part about reciting Richard III is in chapter 9 of Brothers in Arms, the first 11 chapters of which you can read for free here: http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0743435583/0743435583_toc.htm
-
I would probably recommend it to my mom, but not my twelve-year-old nephew. Yet.
Perfect parameter description! You have recommended to your mountain biking mom, anyway. = ]
Thanks for the link, Ookla. Very nice taste of good things to enjoy on the cold, rainy days to come on the Central Coast of CA.
Scenes of rape, incest, torture, murder, etc . . . are a part of real life, unfortunately, and are often integral to the heroic story line. When do they cross that sometimes-movable line into the disgusting, gratuitous, morbidly obsessive? When is it acceptable and when is it just a bit too much?
Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay is pushing its limits for me right now. I'm going to have to clean my brain a bit after this. The lust-deranged Alienor of Castle Borzo is, to me, a gratuitous character. Maybe there will be consequences for her behavior, but she is written with far too free a hand s far and those of us whose parents suffered the real consequences of the free-love late sixties and seventies cannot read a scenario like this without (yet more) eye-rolling. Pleeez.
But the story and characters keep me reading. I am glad that I can hopefully trust other of Kay's works, so sez Miss Silk. He also gets lost in "saying rather than showing" all too often. But his characters' thoughts and motivations ring true and his voice of inspiration is obvious. By inspiration, I mean that indefinable quality of the author's connection with his/her muse; when the story writes itself and teaches the author something he/she did not know, when things are just simply amazing and winsome . . . you know what I mean. We know it when we read it, anyway.
Going to read Bookstore Guy's review site today, especially for the new EE Knight book.
-
I just wanted to add a quick plug for Shannon Hale. I just finished one of her more recent books (A YA novel of an updated fairytale using aspects of a Mongol society called Book of A Thousand Days) and really enjoyed it as she seems to be one that gets better each time. Nice and clean too for the young and young at heart. :)
-
I agree with Frog about Shannon Hale. I haven't read a whole lot of her stuff, but what I have read is very good and clean. Definitely material I'd recommend to some of my younger cousins (I'd say nephews or nieces, but I don't have any :P).
I also have another recommendation. Libba Bray's "A Great and Terrible Beauty." It's the first book of a trilogy. It's YA. I'd recommend it to any teenager (or older) fantasy reader. It's pretty clean. Not as clean as Hale's, because there's some innuendo, and a couple dreams, but nothing serious. The plot, setting (Victorian England), and strong characters make it a really good read overall.
And of course, Gail Carson Levine for the really young. I love Ella Enchanted. Along with some of the rest, but EE is my favorite of hers. Fairy tale twists are cool, especially when they're actually twisted a lot, but still recognizable as the fairy tale.
-
A local guy is sending me an ARC of his novel (I hope). It is a dark-ish fantasy novel. His name is John Brown, and the novel is SERVANT OF A DARK GOD, and is released in October. I'll let you know how if fits in the "reliable" parameters.
-
John Brown will be on Writing Excuses sometime before the book comes out.
-
I figured as much, especially since Brandon gave him a good quote.
-
Thanks, all! Shannon Hale sounds great for me and my two young teen girls. I love the idea of both the Mongol settings and Victorian, especially if research is sufficient to give insights into those cultures. (My own half-written story idea is much more historical fiction than fantasy so far.)
After finishing Kay's Tigana, I needed a bit of Victorian fare to put my mind in a more wholesome place. The end of this long story was not worth the sometimes-salacious journey for me, I am sad to say. The final chapters were melodramatic and hokey. A good ending is a precious thing, I'm finding. Hope I can write one.
Here's recommending Elizabeth Gaskell, especially Sylvia's Lovers (tragic) and Wives and Daughters (more like Jane Austin). Wives and Daughters was dramatized by PBS years ago and is a hidden treasure to be found on Amazon/Ebay and watched more than once.
Got my hands on Hobb's Assassin's Aprentice and am looking forward to a good read! Keep the recommendations coming!
-
Oh, Elizabeth Gaskell...I've been meaning to read her. I watched a mini-series done by the BBC a few years back called "North and South" and it was based on her book (which is similar to Pride and Prejudice, yet much more complicated). The mini-series is fantastic, and I've heard the book is even better.
-
Gaskell's characters jump off the page and into one's heart almost from the start. They are full-bodied and multi-dimensional. The content is often highly edifying to anyone who tends to a Biblical worldview and inspiring to anyone who seeks to live a better life. Probably because Mrs. Gaskell was a collector of stories wherever she lived/visited and tended to fall in love with certain colloquial people/places/legends in the British Isles. She writes brutally, but lovingly, and this is great to read. Her imagery is poetic and the use of language is typically delicious for writers of that era.
Thanks for reminding me of North and South, LW. That will be great to read sometime and then watch on Netflix if available. "Wives and Daughters" is available to watch for free (with subscription) on NF, I just discovered. We are off-topic here since this is neither sci-fi nor fantasy, but will be a wonderful discovery for those Jane Austin lovers who would like more of the same.
Horray, Libba Bray's books are available at my local library. Thanks again, LW!
-
The only Pride and Prejudice I care about is the one with zombies.
-
Btw, Bookstore Guy, Carol Berg books are dark. Very dark and violent, but never without connection to plot and motivation. Do not be alarmed at her "fantasy/romance" designation, she writes gritty-but-mostly-wholesome and always, always surprises. Last plug, I promise.
-
they are on "The List." we are reading like crazy, and the Carol Berg novels are coming up soon-ish i think. You are right though, those covers remind me of bad romance manga...yikes...
-
I can't even look at them (Berg's covers). Protagonists are always too pretty and I haven't been into pretty boys since about 1977. (One bad one spoiled it for all the rest.) Besides, by the end of her books, everyone has been beat to a pulp and can barely move for injuries. I exaggerate, but not by much! At least, artistically, Roc covers are far superior to anything on a Robert Jordan book. Ever.
-
(IIRC) Michael Stackpole's Age of Discovery-Triologie is rather clean and a good read overall.
-
A Mote in God's Eye is good clean classic Sci Fi. Not to mention it follows the christian faith and isn't a "godless universe" which i believe was what you disliked about Asimov.
-
Thanks, Kaz! It's on the list.
Just got my first Bujold book in the mail from Amazon and looking forward to some reading time this week.
Hobb's Assasin's Apprentice got a bit bleak for me, but the payoff was worth any tedium in the middle. Looking forward to book 2. Read Brandon's review of book 3 of the Farseer Trilogy, though, and I'm hoping to find a sound recording for that. Would it be advisable to just skip it?
Thanks again for all suggestions. These should keep me diverted for a long time. Keep 'em coming!
-
read the first 3 Hobb trilogies and then stop.
-
The second book in the Farseer trilogy was by far the bleakest, I found. I mean, I enjoyed the book... and then I had to go listen to happy music and read other stuff for a while before I picked up the third.
'Course, I didn't actually HAVE the third book when I finished the second. ::)
-
But do I really need to read Assasin's Quest (Farseer book 3) before going on to Hobb's next trilogy? Would it be like skipping CoT in the Wheel of Time (not that big a deal since not much really happens) or would I miss too much? i.e., is there continuity between AQ and the first book of trilogy 2?
Royal Assasin is bleaker than book 1? Oh, Lord. I still liked "Apprentice" O.K., but will keep the happy music handy, Silk. tx ;)
-
There is some continuity between the Farseer and Liveship trilogies but you don't actually learn that until reading book 2 of the Fool trilogy.
-
I'm also going to plug Elizabeth Moon for both her Deed of Paksennarion, and her more recent Kylara Vatta, and Familias series.
Mercedes Lackey is very good, and often does very good collaborations with other authors like Larry Dixon, Ann McCaffrey, etc.
Piers Anthony's Xanth series is a bit juvenile (in the fact that the books are riddled with, and depend on, puns), but still enjoyable if you're in the mood for something silly. Jasper Fforde isn't quite as bad as Anthony, but still on the silly side.
I've always enjoyed Patricia C. Wrede and Madeleine L'Engle- the latter tends toward, but isn't quite, new-age. Her books are, at the very least, thought provoking.
Outside the SF/F genre, a good author for lighthearted romance is Georgette Heyer, particularly since you like period books.
-
Thanks, Ravenstar! Good suggestions all.
-
Someone pointed out to me that there is some innocent creature (ussually a water nymph or the like) similar to a girl in early puberty described as desireable towards the end of many Xanth books... making Mr. Anthony a closet perv... I laughed, and having read 3 books in the series, conceded he had a point.
-
Mmm. Some icky racial stuff in the Xanth books too. Well, so I've been told by people who remember the books better than I do. So maybe take my comment with a grain of salt. ::)
-
Hmm... I don't remember anything that specific- other than the fact that sexuality isn't something he glosses over. But it's been several years since I read any of the books- I kinda grew out of them. :-\ I do remember that innuendo is something he really enjoys.
But the racial stuff- the only thing I really remember was his referencing of the "waves" of settlers and I put that down more to the nature of Xanth itself than anything racial. I.e. Xanth being a very literal place (hence the puns) the Black Wave was composed of black people from Africa.
-
I don't think it was anything overt. More in the way he represents his non-human races and such.
Again, though, I haven't read the books in at least ten years, and I only ever read three or four of them anyway. So... while people whose opinions I respect have mentioned that there's a lot of icky racial stuff going on in the books, they could be wrong. ::)
-
Could be it's there and I just didn't pick up on it. Looking back, I grew up pretty sheltered and naive...
-
I'm surprised no mention is made of Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince series. The depth of the characters in those novels is, in my opinion, amazing and unprecedented. The story lines and the philosophy are excellent. And the balance between overtly sexual and not is very, very well drawn.
To be honest, I think Melanie Rawn ranks as amongst the best fantasy writers ever, as great as Jordan or Sanderson.
-
The list grows, with some interesting observations.
I'm nearing the end of Royal Assassin and listening to Rothfus' Name of the Wind as I drive. Both good. Hobbs' RA has not been too terribly bleak, maybe because Silk warned me and I expected worse. There is a lot of sweetly-written extra-marital sex in this book, though, but I'm reading it anyway. Not sure I'll make it through the final Farseer book after reading reviews. Lots of other better stuff to read, thanks to you guys!
Oh, and I'm a Storm Leader this November in Half Moon Bay! Stoked! Just found out. . . .
-
is so good to see that i was not the only one that felt the same way about the first book... i am about to finish assassin quest and so far i think is pretty good not so slow like the first one so i think you should read it. I am in the same spot as you, dont know if i should read the fools trilogy first or the live ship traders trilogy.
Thanks, Kaz! It's on the list.
Just got my first Bujold book in the mail from Amazon and looking forward to some reading time this week.
Hobb's Assasin's Apprentice got a bit bleak for me, but the payoff was worth any tedium in the middle. Looking forward to book 2. Read Brandon's review of book 3 of the Farseer Trilogy, though, and I'm hoping to find a sound recording for that. Would it be advisable to just skip it?
Thanks again for all suggestions. These should keep me diverted for a long time. Keep 'em coming!
-
O.K., been busy, but finished Lois McMaster Bujold's first two novels, conveniently packaged in one book called Cordelia's Honor and I give it a big neh.
Sorry fans of hers, but I was not drawn to it like I have been to Robin Hobbs. I made it through Assassin's Quest, though I wasn't sure I could hang on, and I'm glad I did. It's all about characterization for me and AQ was rich enough in depth of relationship and even had some surprises. I had heard that it was tedious and that not enough happened, so again I didn't expect much and was pleased to find what I thought was good writing. It did drag and drag and drag, but never felt completely devoid of content for me. I give it robust applause, but not the jumping up and down kind.
Oh, and I read The Gathering Storm in between and that's where I clap and jump around a bit. I reserve my highest praise, but I think Brandon is off to a very good start.
I read a couple Christian-authored sci-fi novels, but they were too awful to mention. Why, oh why?
I now scroll back through this list to see what I might read next. Rawn? Moon? Knight? Brooks? Zelazny?
-
Zelazny's Amber is NOT for you. I love it but it happens to be rather colourful...
-
O.K., been busy, but finished Lois McMaster Bujold's first two novels, conveniently packaged in one book called Cordelia's Honor and I give it a big neh.
Those are a pair of prequels that serve mainly as extra backstory and are far from her best work. Try Warrior's Apprentice or the omnibus edition Young Miles before you give up on her. If you get through that and still don't like it I'll be surprised but satisfied that your opinion is based on a truly representative sample, which Cordelia's Honor is not.
As for other stuff, I'll repeat my recommendation of Elizabeth Moon's The Deed of Paksenarrion trilogy. Partly because I want to see your opinion of that non-gratuitous torture scene :P (it's late in the third book), but mainly because I've read it and I consider it a fair bit better than both Cordelia's Honor (though about on par with the rest of the Miles series, with a very different style) and Assassin's Quest, which I have also read.
-
O.K., I was wondering about that, Douglas. Seems like Miles is the character to look forward to and I'll keep reading.
Thanks, Kazman, for the heads-up. I posted a reply to you, I thought, but it's not here! Hate when that happens. I said something like: one person's tolerable content is another's intolerable. No one should be recommending anything racy on this here thread, but it's so very subjective. The discussion is always valuable, I think.
-
I saw it....
-
I'd recommend David Niven's Exiles trilogy for clean SciFi. Most anything by Ben Bova or Andre Norton works. Particularly good is the Forrunner series. For light Fantasy, there is The Complete Compleat Enchanter by Pratt and DeCamp. A good series is A Wizard in Rhyme by the late Christopher Stassheff. L'Engle's Earthsea.
But yeah, newer stuff is generally uplifting only because the success of the Hero(s) is thwarted by fully fleshed antagonists and painful circumstances. Did I mention how much I hate it when buzzwords start replacing real analysis. "Uplighting" indeed!
-
Older Rawn is good, but avoid her newest one, Spellbinder. Lots of sex and completely different. She explains at the back of the book why it is so different. I just remembered because it was on the remainder table when I went to the bookstore the other day.
-
In the YA vein, I've always enjoyed Garth Nix. He has an older YA series called the Abhorsen Trilogy (Canada & the US)/The Old Kingdom (everywhere else) which is just excellent, and its totally clean. I mean, there's some innuendo, and some off-screen sex, and a major part of the magic takes place in the realm of death, but I would be more than happy for any impressionable young minds to read it.
He has also done some younger YA called the Keys to the Kingdom. It takes me about 2 hours to read each book, but they are a very enjoyable 2 hours :)
<edit>
I forgot about the Obernewtyn Chronicles by Isobel Carmody...the only catch is that the series is unfinished :( And while the latest book was released in 2008, the one before that was released in 1999 >:( According to http://www.obernewtyn.net/e107/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?113967.0#post_338810, the last book is finished and just waiting editing, with a Feb 2011 release (in Australia, at least), but I'm not holding my breath.
-
I just finished the Percy Jackson books. I got them for my son, (11) but my husband and I enjoyed them as well. I was surprised at how much I liked them. Quick, clean and entertaining. Not terribly deep, but they are written for kids.
-
I would recommend Patrick Rothfuss' The Name of the Wind. It doesn't really have any language or sex that I can remember, and if it were strong enough, I think I would remember it. Then again, I can't remember what I had for dinner last night, so yeah.
I suggest The Lies of Locke Lamora to pretty much everyone, but it has a lot of language, and some fairly intense violence, so I'm not sure it's really your thing.
I second John Brown's Servant of a Dark God. Brown is a really nice guy, and his writing is great. It's very clean, and everything that's in there has a purpose.
I have a soft spot in my heart for David Eddings' stuff, since they were some of the books my mother read to me growing up. They're very clean, as I remember them, and would probably be considered YA by today's standards. Flame away, everyone, I like Eddings.
The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman is a very good read, and I highly recommend it. Think of the Jungle Book, but with dead peoples' ghosts. Oh, and a guy trying to murder the main character...who is not a tiger or baboon.
Sanderson's Alcatraz series is clearly aimed at kids, but it's still a fun read for adults.
Joseph Delaney's The Last Apprentice series is one that I never hear people talking about, but I think is great. Just gruesome enough to seem scary to kids, but solid writing in my opinion. They make a good airplane and car ride book, since you can plow through one in just an hour or two.
The Hunger Games and Catching Fire are very clean books. I liked The Hunger Games much more, but Catching Fire is a worthy succesor. The Third book is probably due out in a year and a half or so, maybe less. I hear there's a movie deal in the works too. Think Thunderdome for kids. That's honestly the best quick description I can give.
On Stranger Tides is a novel by Tim Powers that I finished not too long ago. It's a swashbuckling tale that Pirates of the Carribean clearly swiped several things from initially, and I hear that the next Pirates movie is based on this book. It was fun. There was some violence, but not much in the way of cursing or sex that I remember, and it was all necessary to the story.
There's always the Harry Potters, though I think everyone in the entire world has read those. It's like they shipped them in Crack Jack boxes or something. Sheesh.
Overlooked and well worth the read for YA is the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud. I really enjoyed these books, and I think that the only reason they weren't more popular was because they were out at the same time as the steam engine that was Rowling's Harry Potter stuff.
That's a decent list for now, I guess. Enjoy!
-
Thanks Renoard, reader mom, Daenya and Dark Prophesy. I will post a few brief reviews of what I have been reading when I have more time. Gotta cook dinner before the hubby gets home.
-
Ranger's Apprentice
Inkheart
Uglies
Kingkiller Chronicles
Harry Potter
Stardust
Gideon Trilogy
Percy Jackson
Wheel of Time
-
Other than George RR Martin (who I like) what fantasy authors have alot of sex and gratuitous violence? I heard Goodkind does. Who else?
-
guessingo: Joe Abercrombe. Richard Morgan.
-
Erickson for violence, sex is more implied... sometimes flat out stated but never described.
-
guessingo: Joe Abercrombe. Richard Morgan.
R Scott Bakker.
China Miéville.
Erikson in the violence dept, but he handles it much better than most.
Scott Lynch in the language dept.
Barclay can be fairly explicit in terms of sex and violence, but normally he sticks with a few choice swear-words here and there and lots and lots of violence.
Mark Chadbourn, depending on the series can be explicit.
A large majority of Urban Fantasy/Urban SF contains lots of language, violence and sex. There's a reason I call it vamperotica.
-
I think Hobb is full of sex, but since it is from a woman's perspective and not over-romanticized (and includes consequences), I guess it doesn't offend me as much as it probably should.
My latest favorite author of fantasy, J.V. Jones, is more my cup of tea. Very realistic without slipping into the explicit. I wouldn't recommend Hobb to a teenager who is trying to live according to biblical standards. Thanks, all, for the helpful list for this thread for "what to avoid." From the viewership, as I'd hoped, this has been a resource for more than a few on the subject of reliable content.
I've got to go on a bit about A Cavern of Black Ice by Jones. That book was awesome. So glad there are two more to enjoy. Original world, beautiful use of language (she is British-born), great pacing, sensible magic system (so far) and complex characters that ring true and change/grow. It is bleak and dark, but not without joy. Don't let the awful cover art dissuade. Tor. . . .
I would not have discovered Jones were it not for http://elitistbookreviews.blogspot.com/ Check them out if you have not already. I start at the bottom of the review for "content" to be sure the review is worth my time. Unless it's one of their famous flames, which are too much fun.
I'm actually on Robin Hobb's Golden Fool right now. Liveship Traders, her second trilogy, was very violent and sometimes bordered on the ridiculous, but I read it and mostly enjoyed it. I love it that there is a character that ties the three trilogies together and that I figured it out before it was too, too obvious. Never mind exactly when. As good as Hobb is (was), I doubt I'll be back for a re-read. Thankful that my library stocks all of her books that are worth reading. Here's hoping she gets back on track, too.
I also read Carol Berg's newest, since I love her, called Spirit Lens. If you have to have an action scene or some kind of blood-letting every few chapters, skip this one. I hung on through about 250 pages of nothing-much because I know she always delivers and, for me, the end was worth the effort. Carol is a great writer, but this book is not her best. Having said that, I am eager for the next installment. The characters might have taken time to grow on me, but they are under my skin now and there they will stay.
She and Sanderson and Patrick Rothfuss are the only authors I plan to pre-order through Amazon this year and next. And Jones, probably, if I get that far.
-
You haven't gone back to the Miles Vorkosigan series to actually read about the title character? :'(
Not that Hobb is bad, but I personally think Bujold is better.
-
Wow. I love Shards of Honor. I do also love the Miles books, but Shards of Honor does an emotional number on me, especially the end (not counting the sidestory). And Barrayar is such a rollercoaster, culminating in that fantastic "shopping in the capital" line.
I understand different people have different experiences reading books, but Bujold is my favorite writer.
-
I'd say The Warrior's Apprentice (the first Miles book) isn't as strong (I think it was written before Shards of Honor, even?) There were things about it that I didn't really get the first time through ("Why are they doing this, again?")
Memory is my very favorite, though that comes much later in the series.
-
Her first 3 books were Shards of Honor, Warrior's Apprentice, and Ethan of Athos. They're sequential, yet with different main characters; she wrote them so that any one of them could get picked up on its own by a publisher. All 3 were written before the first one got picked up, so Baen released them (mass market paperback originals) in fairly rapid succession.
-
Sadly I'd have to drop into the younger age-level books to find things I'd be totally comfortable with (of course, just because they're simpler reads doesn't mean they're any less of a good story)
-FableHaven
-Percy Jackson and the Olympians
-Ranger's Apprentice
-Narnia
-Brandon Sanderson stuff (minus WarBreaker, probably)
and of course religious fiction is always fun (Recommended: The Kingdom and the Crown for christians)
-
Thanks Peter, KhyEllie and others. I haven't checked this thread for a while.
I promise I will read lots of Bujold, Peter and douglas, eventually. Brandon is not your favorite author? I'm shocked and dismayed! Treason!
I have not read much Christian fiction that does not reduce me to at least occasional eye-rolling, KhyEllie, but I will try your suggestion. Besides C.S. Lewis's Narnia and Screwtape Letters and a few others, of course. I will suspend my high standards quite a bit for good Christian allegory or fantasy. Romance . . . no, thanks. Historic fiction . . . absolutely! (I'm reading a beautiful book called Singing Through the Night by Anneke Companjen about the power of music in the lives of persecuted believers. I try to read good missionary stories as often as possible.) :)
Also reading Tom Lloyd's The Stormcaller. Some flawed writing, but engaging with great action sequences. Elitist says it's reliable, but there is some scattered strong language. It would be wrong to write scenes of military life without the occasional profane outburst. Nothing gratuitous so far. And the elves are evil! If ya gotta have elves, make 'em creepy, I say.