Author Topic: Reen's obsidian  (Read 24056 times)

Comatose

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #135 on: August 24, 2008, 01:24:07 AM »
I was just noticing that this thread for a while goes like this:

Andrew
Coma
Andrew
Coma
Andrew
Coma
Andrew
Coma

Followed Shortly by

Reaves
Sarah
Reaves
Sarah
Reaves
Sarah

Just found that amusing.

And I think ashfalls are fairly heavy all over the empire, though we have mostly seen Luthadel. But that does raise the question of why.

there is not nearly enough chaos in that equation.  I miss that guy!
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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #136 on: August 28, 2008, 08:56:26 PM »
The reason for me not posting in this topic is less "I wasn't able to access the internet the past week" and more "I think this topic is silly." I just don't post here because I find the whole notion of the obsidian being important... silly.
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Miyabi

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #137 on: August 29, 2008, 03:26:03 AM »
Perhaps it will play an emotional role in the third book rather than a mystical one.
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neiana

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #138 on: September 02, 2008, 05:24:53 AM »
Obsidian being volcanically created, thus coming (one would assume) from the Ashmounts...  but weren't the Ashmounts created by TLR at some point?  We could theorize these Ashmounts held some sort of power, being made from such a ... powerful entity.  Who's to say shards of hardened volcanic-innards don't carry some transient power?

Miyabi

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #139 on: September 02, 2008, 06:40:38 AM »
The only problem being, it wouldn't fit into any of the magic systems. Nope-nope it certainly would not.
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neiana

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #140 on: September 02, 2008, 06:43:27 AM »
Yeah and nobody still has a firm grasp on the complexities of the magic systems, yet, so why so quick to dismiss? ;)

Furthermore I did not say it had to be part of a magic system, only that it could potentially hold some power - a particularly general, vague and sweeping statement.  Don't try to box it down into a tiny little idea, ne?

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #141 on: September 02, 2008, 06:50:33 AM »
Any type of "power" has to come from somewhere.  Thus, it would need to come from "magic", whether it causes the magic or was created by the magic.

The problem with obsidian is it breaks the main rule of the system; it's not a metal.
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neiana

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #142 on: September 02, 2008, 06:53:43 AM »
It was, albeit indirectly, created by TLR.  You don't think the taint of magic can leave a footprint?

Miyabi

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #143 on: September 02, 2008, 07:01:29 AM »
I'm just saying it would be a like throwing a wrench between perfectly functional cogs.  There has yet to be any sign that the Magic can affect anything other than metal.  Aside from what we see Ruin do with the rubbing and writing, but even that, depending on the medium used, could be from metal.  (i.e.  Lead used for the rubbing and iron based ink for writing.)
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neiana

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #144 on: September 02, 2008, 07:09:47 AM »
You think a glass-shard formed from something burning deep within the earth doesn't contain metal?

Pure obsidian is usually dark in appearance, though the color varies depending on the presence of impurities. Iron and magnesium typically give the obsidian a dark green to brown to black color.

;)

Miyabi

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #145 on: September 02, 2008, 03:22:32 PM »
-Opens mouth and raises finger to make a point then says nothing.-

Uh, I didn't know that. ;D  I learned something new today. ha ha.
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SarahG

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #146 on: September 02, 2008, 06:15:42 PM »
Uh, I didn't know that. ;D  I learned something new today. ha ha. [/color]

Me too.  However, I think your main point still holds, because I don't think EUOL knew that either.  If he was aware that obsidian often contains metals, then why would that be the anti-Allomantic weapon of choice?  And why would none of the battle scenes involve people pushing or pulling on the obsidian axes?  It seems to me that obsidian, in the Mistborn world, is essentially metal-free.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #147 on: September 02, 2008, 07:34:39 PM »
We know that Inquisitors can see based on trace metals in non-metal objects, but can they push or pull on them? I can't remember, did the Lord Ruler pull on Vin's trace metals during their fight? The trace metals in obsidian are probably also difficult to pull/push on.
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happyman

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #148 on: September 02, 2008, 08:31:04 PM »
We know that Inquisitors can see based on trace metals in non-metal objects, but can they push or pull on them? I can't remember, did the Lord Ruler pull on Vin's trace metals during their fight? The trace metals in obsidian are probably also difficult to pull/push on.

I think, during the fight, two things happened that shed some light on this:

1) TLR pushed on the metals inside Vin's body.  This took a *lot* of strength.
2) TLR managed to push the *glass on the floor*, but barely.

Thus we know TLR could push on the metals in generic glass.  He could probably also push on the metals in obsidian.  However I don't think there is any indicator that this a matter of anything besides TLR having crazy-strong allomantic strength, and I doubt we've seen any other character strong enough to duplicate the feat.  In general it seems likely that obsidian is not unusually responsive to allomancy.

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It was, albeit indirectly, created by TLR.  You don't think the taint of magic can leave a footprint?

No, we generally do not.  The magic in this world follows specific rules.  We don't know all of them, but every last one that we have seen, every last one that has ever been found, *including the examples listed above* all involve metals, and only metals.  Not only that, but trace metals play only the smallest part in the system and seem very unlikely to get involved unless crazy-strong allomancers get involved.  Even if they do, it will still be the metal that is special.

In addition, none of these powers leave "footprints" in the usual sense of the word.  Once pushing or pulling (physical or emotional) is done, the item (person) moves on its new trajectory following the "non-magical" laws of physics; it has been changed, but the change does not continue; there is no allomantic radiation given off, or any continuing magical change.  I've heard rumors that internal pushing and pulling might leave permanent scars, but that's probably more like bending metal with a pull and leaving it be; there is no trace of pulling left over after, just the bent metal (or person).

What you don't seem to understand is that we don't expect EUOL to change the rules midstream.  We expect the final picture to make sense in terms consistent with what we already know.  You could keep saying things along the lines of "Prove that obsidian can't have magic powers!" and we won't have a final answer for you until we actually read the last book.  That doesn't mean that our answers aren't sufficient; we logically cannot prove a negative.  We just have to give reasons to think the negative is unfruitful and why we choose to ignore it.  Your protests to the contrary aren't swaying anybody; they're just ticking us off, largely because they aren't really adding anything to the debate.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #149 on: September 02, 2008, 09:21:20 PM »
Where is metal involved in the Mist Spirit tearing off the corners of pages? Or in Ruin altering the text of written pages?
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