Author Topic: review: The Island  (Read 3935 times)

Skar

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2005, 11:35:28 AM »
As Archon said, people fighting a war don't walk around with glum looks on their faces contemplating the horror of it all.  If anything, when they're not actually fighting, people get sillier and more flighty.  It's a natural reaction TOO the horror of it all.  When we were in Kuwait and the sirens were going off as we sat around in our chemical suits waiting for the Iraqi rockets to hit or get patrioted, jokes flew fast and furious.  Then, when the attacks were over we'd all rush back into the tents and unpause the DVD player to resume our Sopranos marathon.

Before we left Kuwait for Iraq the women in the area, (there weren't many women but those there were...), would lay out on top of the bunkers suntanning.  There were romances springing up everywhere.

The true horror of war can only be truly appreciated, driven home, understood, whatever you want to call it, in stark contrast with the comparitive idyll of everyday life.

I'm sure that my perspective on the movie Pearl Harbor was twisted because it was such a relief to watch.  A relief because it didn't preach endlessly from a soapbox about the horrors of war or the weakness and stupidity of soldiers as so many war films do.

And I don't understand how anyone can think that the film portrayed Pearl Harbor as a victory.  There were personal victories portrayed during the attack but that was it.

Here's a quote I especially like concerning personal victories and war.  I'm sure you've seen it before.

A passage from the book, "Gates of Fire", about the Spartan stand at Thermopylae.

"Man as it is constituted, Polynikes said, is a boil and a canker. Observe the specimens in any nation other than Lakedaemon. Man is weak, greedy, craven, lustful, prey to every species of vice and depravity. He will lie, steal, cheat, murder, melt down the very statues of the gods and coin their gold as money for whores. This is man. This is his nature, as all the poets attest.

Fortunately, God in his mercy has provided a counterpoise to our species innate depravity, that gift, my young friend, is war.

War, not peace, provides virtue. War not peace, purges vice. War and preparation for war, call forth all that is noble and honorable in a man. It unites him with his brothers and binds them in selfless love, eradicating in the crucible of necessity all, which is base and ignoble. There in the holy mill of murder the meanest of men may seek and find that part of himself, concealed beneath the corrupt, which shines forth brilliant and virtuous, worthy of honor before the gods. Do not despise war, my young friend, nor delude yourself that mercy and compassion are virtues superior to manly valor."

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Patrick_Gibbs

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2005, 05:32:19 PM »
I see your point, Skar, and never having been in a war myself, so the best I have to go off of is my dad's Vietnam experience, which has it's lighter side (in fact, most of what I've heard is the lighter side - the other stuff he won't talk about.). When I mentioned portraying war as romantic, I was speaking in terms of "romanticism" than literal romance between people.  

My perception of the movie was somewhat slanted by hearing people walking out of the movie making comments like: "Yeah, well, we sure showed those Japs when we dropped the bomb." A good friend of mine made an excellent documentary film called "Genbaku Shi (Killed by the Bomb) about his father, who was one of first American soldiers into Hiroshima after the bomb was dropped, and the horrors that he witnessed, and the imagery of that film will be burned into my mind forever. I'm not commenting on whether or not the dropping of atomic bomb was nescesary, but it was one of the worst events in the history of mankind.

I have no problem with movies that show lighter, even humorous moments in war. "M*A*S*H is one of my favorite tv shows of all time, and "Three Kings" is one of my favorite war films. In both cases I love the balance between humor and drama.

The attack on Pearl wasn't portrayed as a victory, but I just thought it had too much of a "Top Gun" thrill ride feel. It was tacked on attack on Tokyo that I really didn't feel was part of the story that I had such a problem with, because I felt like the film made it look like the Japanese killed people at Pearl, and the allied bombing of Tokyo was just fun and cool, and glossed over the fact that people were getting killed there, too. A war movie that I really admire is "We Were Soldiers," because of the way they portray both sides of the conflict.

Ultimately, I just didn't like "Pearl Harbor" the film because the acting and the dialogue were so silly.  
« Last Edit: August 05, 2005, 06:40:43 PM by Patrick_Gibbs »
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Skar

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2005, 12:22:02 PM »
I understand your point.  I feel differently about the Doolittle raid in the movie.  I don't feel that it was tacked on at all.  It was, "the response" to Pearl Harbor.  Despite the cheese and mindless deification of FDR, the reasons he gave were pretty much the real reasons the raid was carried out.  The act of striking back after such a vicious blow gave America hope.  Without that hope the war and the world as we know it would have turned out very differently.  For one thing, the Japanese society that carried out the Rape of Nanking would now be in control of the entir pacific rim.  Yikes.

My point being that the Doolittle raid was the other end of the cause effect arc and as such I felt that it fit just fine in the movie.  But again, I am biased.  My Grandfather's brother was shot down over China and he and his entire crew lived to tell the tale because of the Chinese resistance, the same guys that rescued the doolittle raiders in the movie.
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Patrick_Gibbs

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2005, 05:25:19 PM »
Hmm. Good argument. As always, your perpective is both interesting and insightful. I concede that it was relevent to the story of Pearl Harbor, and the two events were most certainly connected in real life. But were they connected enough for the smae pilots to be at both? The movie had already strained credibility with the whole plot about Affleck's character flying with the british, which was a completely made up scenario that historian agreed was ridiculous.  

I guess my problem is that the movie was so caught up in the incredibly dull soap opera story that the attack on Pearl seemed almost tacked on. They were going for the "Titanic" effect, where it's about the characters, and they just happened to be there when it happened. But then it kind of shifted gears into being more about the war, which, giving how dull the characters were, is not a bad thing, but I felt that it made the thing feel almost like "Star Wars," where the three people tend to figure into every event of the war, and it just strained credibility to me. More the anything, my feelings on "Pearl Harbor" the movie come down to this: I sat through two hours of a boring love story with bad acting, and when it finally got to the interesting part, I just sat there for an hour and fifteen minutes trying to ignore the fact that I really had to go to the bathroom, and I just wanted it to get over. I've thought about giving the movie a second chance on DVD, but I just don't think I could sit through it again.



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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2005, 06:15:03 PM »
Just a sidenote:

Quote
The RAF recognises 2440 British and 510 overseas pilots who flew at least one authorised operational sortie with an eligible unit of the Royal Air Force or Fleet Air Arm during the period 10 July to 31 October 1940. This group includes 139 Poles, 98 New Zealanders, 86 Canadians, 84 Czechoslovakians, 29 Belgians, 21 Australians, 20 South Africans, 13 French, 10 Irish, 7 Americans, a Jamaican, a Palestinian and a South Rhodesian. 498 RAF pilots were killed during the Battle.


Taken from Wikipedia.
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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2005, 06:21:42 PM »
Where does that quote come from? I'm not questioning it's truthfullness, I'd just like to know. At the time the film was released, it was widley publicised that the idea of The American military did not have any pilots fighting with the British at the time that the movie portrayed, and writer Randall Wallace and Director Michael Bay admitted that they were taking atristic license and mucking about with history for the purposes of the story.
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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2005, 07:46:52 PM »
The link goes to the article in question, and it contains an external link to this webpage. It's the RAF list of all the participants in the Battle of Britain, stating names, nationality, squadrons they flew in, and whether or not they died. Says that out of the 2,500 men, 580 died in the BoB, and an additional 750 died before the war ended. It's depressing to scroll down it, seeing how many names have KILLED next to them.
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Skar

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2005, 11:57:10 AM »
For that matter, if I am remembering correctly, there were also American pilots who fought the japanese over China before we ever got into the war.  They were not functioning as an official part of the U.S. military but rather as mercenaries, officially.  They may have been called Tigers of some sort or another.
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Patrick_Gibbs

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2005, 10:36:37 PM »
Exactly. They were not functioning as an official part of the U.S. Military.
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Skar

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2005, 04:37:02 PM »
Neither was the character in Pearl Harbor.  He was given permission to go but his unit didn't get sent over there or anything.
"Skar is the kind of bird who, when you try to kill him with a stone, uses it, and the other bird, to take vengeance on you in a swirling melee of death."

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Patrick_Gibbs

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2005, 05:01:09 PM »
Okay, it's been WAY too long since I saw Pearl Harbor for me to comment on details, so I'll concede this point.

But I still think the "bomb P.O.V." shot was stupid and I wish Cuba Gooding, jr had been killed (not nescessarily in the movie, though.).

Does it strike anyone else as funny that there has hardly been anything on this thread that was actually about "The Island."?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2005, 05:02:33 PM by Patrick_Gibbs »
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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2005, 05:11:44 PM »
That might be because the Island, for better or worse, was something of a forgettable movie.  Like the review said--fun enough to watch, but really not excellent.  Even the 'thoughtful' parts just weren't memorable to me.
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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2005, 05:46:34 PM »
Well, more trouble for The Island.

Not only was it a box-oficce flop, but now it's in plagerism law-suit.

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=31931

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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2005, 10:10:04 PM »
The Island is actually a remake of the movie sueing them according to IMDB, it's been listed as that for about 3-4 months too, the original was a MST3K fan fave as well.  
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Re: review: The Island
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2005, 10:47:40 PM »
Well, if the producers of The Island didn't get permission from the makers of The Clonus Horror, then there could be a good case against.

But for now I can only dream that Michael Bay will never direct again.
The Folly of youth is to think that intelligence is a subsitute for experience. The folly of age is to think that experience is a subsitute for intelligence.