The Nerdery, #24

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

reference: http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=1101

He's right. Low magic D&D is hard. I can't count the number of times I've tried and failed.

[42]

I'm currently playing in a low-magic campaign, the campaign has been running for at least 6 months now. The DM did follow a lot of the rules, but he also axed certain classes as player options. Wizard and sorcerer being the prime ones. He also placed some a restrictions on feats (no item creation feats).

After this was all laid out, it took some time for the players to get used to the kind of characters we would be playing.

The other issue is that the players started focusing other accomplishments rather than finding gold or treasure. This often leads to some unexpected player goals. Like starting civil wars and some other odd suff.

It also helps that the characters level slower. As we've gone up in level it becomes harder to fight things higher level monsters without the necessary magic items.

[42]

Also give reasons why the characters can't strip all the magic items off the the bad guys. Stuff like their magic items are evilly aligned, or that they are well known and giving the characters new enemies, or that there are family members who rightfully inherit  the items.

[Spriggan]

This is really something that has always annoyed me and I'm glad to finally write about it.  One thing I did not include in the article, just because I didn't want to try and argue the point, was whether or not D&D rules themselves make for difficult low magic settings or if it's just the mindset of players.

[Eagle Prince]

"Putting the awe back into magic"

You don't do that with a +1 sword, period.

The One Ring wasn't a ring of invisiblity, 'nuff said.

My idea of low-magic and high-magic must be really skewed, cause from where I'm sitting why that low-magic game isn't working for you seems all too obvious.

Sorry if that came out kind of mean... it was kind of built up after hearing too many complaints about low-magic games.  Are you running a low-magic game or something?  Give me a better idea of what you think a low-magic game is supposed to be.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I'm swayed by Eagle a little bit here.

LotR can be considered a low-magic setting. But it's not due to the low-end of magic items. It's due to the infrequency of the magic items. There are what, 3 swords, 2 staves, and a ring in the whole series that qualify.

Make the item *worth* pursuing, but make them very infrequent.

edit: ok, there are technically something like 20 rings, but we only really see one used. Plus there's a couple Palantirs. But the point is still there.

[Entsuropi]

In LoTR, one of the most potent (and useful) magic items is Frodo's mithril chain vest. It saved his life, once. That, in LoTR, is hot stuff. In D&D it's kinda... expected that you'll get some later on

Best way to put it - if the players start argueing over who gets to use the one magic item they have, it's low magic

WFRP is low magic. The main book lists 2 magical items, and says that most magic items in WFRP are kept under lock and key by armies until they are REALLY needed. PC's should have to do a major quest to get one.

[Spriggan]

I'm not saying there shouldn't be powerful magic what I am saying is even low level items should be considered special buy the player's characters at least.

[Eagle Prince]

I don't think you want players fighting over magic items.  That can happen even when there is enough items to go around, and its talked about in the DMG (among other places).  But I get what you are saying.  Low-magic means magic-rare basically.  Well is this magic-rare world a place that magic is feared and respected, and almost impossible to master?  Or is it magic-rare because the half-dozen magic weapons in the world are +1 swords (ie magic is rare because its basically just pathetic).

If you are trying to make magic rare and frightening, then those half-dozen swords should range from +5 vorpal weapons to straight-up artifacts.  Same goes for spellcasters, nurfing their spells will make them more rare... cause they now suck too much to play.

You also need to keep in mind that Dungeons and Dragons is not a low-magic fantasy setting.  This is high fantasy, where armies just might replace their catapults with a clan of rock-hurling giants!  It might seem obvious, but don't overlook the fact that D&D is a high-fantasy setting, not a low-magic setting.

I'm thinking we should write an article on running a low-magic d&d campaign, then we can show them how its done.

[Entsuropi]

The two magic items are, incidentally, pretty hardcore.

In WFRP, mages are wierd. Sure, their fireballs are hard to use, but the sheer lack of anti-mage abilities and the rareness of magic means that when they use magic it's potent. One of the basic spells is one that makes marshlights appear. AFAIK, there is no 'will save' or anything to resist it. Minor effect, but it's bound to have a big result.

[Eagle Prince]

Warhammer is low-magic?  Is this like some new setting, cause I've never read any of their RPG books and the figs are like dwarves with axe-guns and other bizzare stuff so it never really caught my interest.

[Entsuropi]

...

Go read http://www.games-workshop.com under Warhammer

[Eagle Prince]

I didn't see anything on there about a RPG, just the wargame stuff.

Yeah I think somenoe really should do a good article about running a low-magic d&d game.  I hear it come up a lot, so I think it would be good.

[Entsuropi]

The wargame and rpg share the same setting, but then again the wargame focuses on the super-powerful characters who drip in magic.

Warhammer is so low magic that the only area of effect spells are impossibly hard to cast for any but the most powerful wizards.

[Nicadymus]

I'm thinking we should write an article on running a low-magic d&d campaign, then we can show them how its done.

I have returned to this article as a discussion with several members of my gaming group have expressed an interest in doing a "low magic" campaign.  I have several questions regarding the creation of a "low magic world" that I think I might be able to get some answers on thru the discussion this forum has to offer.

First, what classifies as "low magic."  When you are dealing with inherently magical races, like beholders, dragons, undead, etc., one must determine if their existence still constitutes a "low magic environment" or if you need to eliminate such races to create a truly "low magic envirnoment."  If you elminate them, or make them scarce in number, you may be able to constitute your setting as "low magic," but it also eliminates many of the inhuman opponents that a GM can throw against the players.

Second, are you limiting magic to a certain kind; i.e. divine v. arcane?  This too could create a low magic campaign if you elimiate one style or another almost completely by making the requirements too high, or the magic not worth the price, such as a vitalizing option as found in Unearthed Arcana.

Lastly, how does the level of technology effect your "low magic" setting?  So you don't give the characters access to magic or magic items, but you increase the level of tech they could have access to, but set the "price" for such tech high, either thru a questing, making allegiences, having it be outlawed, and/or spending time to manufacture the tech instead of being out raking in the loot.

These are just some of the concerns that we discussed.  Thoughts, concerns, advice?