Vin's Mom

[CopperEye]

The account of Vin receiving her earing and the sacrifice of her sister is one event that puzzles me.

From Reen's account, Vin's mom heard voices that told her to kill her sister and stick the earing in Vin's ear.  When people hear voices in their heads (Vin, Zane, Marsh) it is because they have hemalurgy and Ruin does the talking.  So does this mean that Vin's mom has hemalurgy?

I have a few theories, but none of them sit well.

1) Vin's mom has hemalurgy, she saw what happened when she got it and she passed it down to her daughter by instruction from Ruin.

2) Reen's account was incorrect.  This was a complete set-up by the steel ministry to overthrow the obligators.  They followed the prelan, saw that he didn't kill off the mistress, they gave Vin hemalurgy which drove the mom crazy seeing her other child be massacred.   A big hole in this theory is hemalurgy != allomancy, but I like the idea of this being a complete setup by the Steel Ministry to overthrow the obligators.  The Inquisitors were being guided by Ruin in what they thought was for the better good, but Ruin was setting up another hero of ages to gain freedom.

3) You don't have to have hemalurgy to be controlled by Ruin.

[Reaves]

i think we need more info on Vin's mom, although i definitely think that she was at the very least being influenced by Ruin.

Also i think that having hemalurgy does not mean you are being controlled. After all, Vin has a piercing (albeit a small one) and she is not being controlled to the extent of the Steel Inquisitors or Zane. I do think that having hemalurgy at the very least facilitates Ruinous communication.

[Miyabi]

This theory seems very believable.  I mean, the only other people we hear of hearing voices are Hemalurgists, and all of them hear the voice of Ruin.  So why not Vin's mom.  I agree with your theory very much on this.

I had made the connection that the piercing is what gave her the hemalurgy, but I had never thought of Vin's mom having been a Hemalurgist herself.

I'm not sure about the whole Steel Ministry thing though, that just seems a bit out of the way.

[Miyabi]

Sorry for double posting, BUT I just read the prologue for HoA AND I think it gives more credence to your theory.  This like right here :

The spike would need to pierce the man's body, passing through the heart, then be driven into the body of the Inquisitor tied below.

SO, it takes a hemalurgist to make a hemalurgist.  The earing would have had to pierce through Vin, then also go into her mother's finger in order for Vin to have become a hemalurgist. 

In my opinion, this theory is VERIFIED.[/color]

[CopperEye]

Sorry for double posting, BUT I just read the prologue for HoA AND I think it gives more credence to your theory.  This like right here :

The spike would need to pierce the man's body, passing through the heart, then be driven into the body of the Inquisitor tied below.

SO, it takes a hemalurgist to make a hemalurgist.  The earing would have had to pierce through Vin, then also go into her mother's finger in order for Vin to have become a hemalurgist. 

In my opinion, this theory is VERIFIED.[/color]

It depends on how you read the statement from the prologue.  Who is being given hemalurgy?  Is the keeper getting hemalurgy, or is he the sacrifice to give the inquisitor on bottom hemalurgy (or if he already has some hemalurgy he is getting more)?  I'm not sure.  I'm inclined to believe that the inquisitor is getting more hemalurgy.  If this is the case, then the scenario with Vin is that her mom(under the direction of Ruin) pounded the earing through her sister's heart into Vin's body(possibly ear).

Under the second scenario, why is the sister killed if her mom just needs to pound the earing through vin and then poke herself with it?  Granted, there could be more to hemalurgy than what is explained in the prologue.

I would like it if it did verify the theory that Vin's mom has hemalurgy, I don't think the prologue provides that evidence due to ambiguity.

[Miyabi]

Yes, but through this and the way that we see Vin having Hemalurgy, my theory makes A LOT of sense, unless it all just happens to be coincidence.

[CopperEye]

Yes, but through this and the way that we see Vin having Hemalurgy, my theory makes A LOT of sense, unless it all just happens to be coincidence.

I personally agree that Vin's mom has hemalurgy, but that brings up a whole host of other questions that don't sit well with me.

warning, random questions coming:

Why give an inconsequential skaa hemalurgy?
Who gave it to her? (Steel Inquisitor or genetics)
Would genetic hemalurgy allow Ruin to control someone, enough to sacrifice one of your kids? ( I think not)
So she needs to have some spikes in her to give Ruin that much control.
Therefore, the Steel Inquisitors (SI), under the control of Ruin, put spikes in Vin's mom to give her hemalurgy.
Did Ruin have that much control over the SI to make them do this? Put spike in a random skaa?

So my questions all point back to the SI, which goes back to my #2 theory that the SI were planning the downfall of the obligators through Vin's mom, but Ruin had different plans.

Or the easiest explanation is that depressed crazy people can be controlled by Ruin and that's why Vin's mom did what she did (#3 theory)

So there are my ramblings

[Comatose]

Here's a question, did Reen kill their mother, or did he just run with Vin.  Where is their mother now??

[Miyabi]

If I remember correctly he SAYS he killer her, bu that doesn't mean he did, or that I remember correctly.

Also a note, she WAS sleeping with an Obligator.  That could have some connection as to where she attained the Hemalurgy in the first place.

I'm beginning to think that Hemalurgy is NOT genetic, and there must be a sacrifice and a piercing that punches through you and then into another Hemalurgist.

[Andrew the Great]

I'm beginning to think that Hemalurgy is NOT genetic, and there must be a sacrifice and a piercing that punches through you and then into another Hemalurgist.

I agree with you there. That's always been my personal opinion. It makes more sense, seeing as we don't have any examples of genetic hemalurgy, or if it's possible that we do, they also have a spike with a sacrifice. Vin is the only example that comes to mind, and she has her earring.

As a side note, does anyone know how Zane got his spike? I can't remember for the life of me.

[CopperEye]

As a side note, does anyone know how Zane got his spike? I can't remember for the life of me.

The books never said.

[Andrew the Great]

Yes, but through this and the way that we see Vin having Hemalurgy, my theory makes A LOT of sense, unless it all just happens to be coincidence.

I personally agree that Vin's mom has hemalurgy, but that brings up a whole host of other questions that don't sit well with me.

warning, random questions coming:

Why give an inconsequential skaa hemalurgy?
Who gave it to her? (Steel Inquisitor or genetics)
Would genetic hemalurgy allow Ruin to control someone, enough to sacrifice one of your kids? ( I think not)
So she needs to have some spikes in her to give Ruin that much control.
Therefore, the Steel Inquisitors (SI), under the control of Ruin, put spikes in Vin's mom to give her hemalurgy.
Did Ruin have that much control over the SI to make them do this? Put spike in a random skaa?

In answer to your questions, which I didn't see last time I posted:

1)Said inconsequential skaa will eventually have a child that has the strongest allomantic ability of anyone born in years, and if above mentioned inconsequential skaa has hemalurgy, Ruin has the perfect tool to be able to control Vin in the future at hand.  This does, however, require one of two things. a) Ruin can predict the future (which I doubt) or b) Ruin is able to get information that Vin's mother is sleeping with The High Prelan dude (which he could get from the inquisitors) and just made a lucky guess.

2) Based on above answer, I'd say likely an inquisitor, but it's possible that she got it from some other wacko. I would guess that in order to learn how to create a hemalurgist, you either have to have had it done to you or be able to communicate with Ruin (which tends to entail number 1). However, there could be a "How to make a Steel Inquisitor 101" course book floating around somewhere that we're not aware of.

3) If genetic hemalurgy exists, then I would say yes. I personally believe that genetic hemalurgy does not exist.

4) Yes, I agree that Vin's mother needs to have a spike of some sort somewhere. We don't know enough about her to prove or disprove this, but it's a logical assumption to make.

5) Yes ruin had enough control to make the Steel Inquisitors put a spike in a random skaa. Even before it's freed Ruin has enough control to make marsh fight Sazed, which Marsh wouldn't do without being controlled.

So here's my random question of the day (along with my previous question):

Could the steel inquisitors have given Zane his spike? Why would they do that?

The obvious answer is that they did, but it is theoretically possible that someone else did give it to him. As to why, I would say because they found out he was a mistborn. But then, why haven't they done that with any other noble mistborn?

Thoughts?

[CopperEye]

In answer to your questions, which I didn't see last time I posted:

1)Said inconsequential skaa will eventually have a child that has the strongest allomantic ability of anyone born in years, and if above mentioned inconsequential skaa has hemalurgy, Ruin has the perfect tool to be able to control Vin in the future at hand.  This does, however, require one of two things. a) Ruin can predict the future (which I doubt) or b) Ruin is able to get information that Vin's mother is sleeping with The High Prelan dude (which he could get from the inquisitors) and just made a lucky guess.

2) Based on above answer, I'd say likely an inquisitor, but it's possible that she got it from some other wacko. I would guess that in order to learn how to create a hemalurgist, you either have to have had it done to you or be able to communicate with Ruin (which tends to entail number 1). However, there could be a "How to make a Steel Inquisitor 101" course book floating around somewhere that we're not aware of.

3) If genetic hemalurgy exists, then I would say yes. I personally believe that genetic hemalurgy does not exist.

4) Yes, I agree that Vin's mother needs to have a spike of some sort somewhere. We don't know enough about her to prove or disprove this, but it's a logical assumption to make.

5) Yes ruin had enough control to make the Steel Inquisitors put a spike in a random skaa. Even before it's freed Ruin has enough control to make marsh fight Sazed, which Marsh wouldn't do without being controlled.

2 to 5 flows logically, but 1 doesn't sit well with me.  Im not willing to give Ruin omniscience (other wise he would have killed Rashek the first time so Alendi could have done it 1000 years ago).  That leaves a lucky guess that the offspring of the high Prelan will be one of the most powerful mistborn for generations.  I don't even think the high prelan was a mistborn or had allomancy, at least I can't remember it in the book.  So making a guess seems unlikely to me. 

Although, I just thought up of a scenario that might work.  I need to state one assupmtion though.  Although Ruin could control SI while TLR was alive, I don't think he did, or if he did it was subtle.  If TLR had any idea what Ruin could do to his #1 henchmen, I think he would have killed them all.  So Ruin had to be careful while TLR was alive.

So here we go.  The SI were following the prelan and saw that one of his skaa mistresses had a child.  Their purpose was to over throw the obligators so they wanted to keep track of the child.  They gave the mom hemalurgy to take control and possibly as a tracking mechanism.  At some point they also gave Vin the 15th metal to make her a powerful allomancer.   They wanted to make sure she was a mistborn to get the obligators in trouble.  Ruin wanted this to happen to make the next hero of ages.  Once the mom was under control of Ruin, then she gave Vin hemalurgy.  The interesting thing about this setup is that Reen becomes the agent for Preservation to hijack Ruins plan.

So here's my random question of the day (along with my previous question):

Could the steel inquisitors have given Zane his spike? Why would they do that?

The obvious answer is that they did, but it is theoretically possible that someone else did give it to him. As to why, I would say because they found out he was a mistborn. But then, why haven't they done that with any other noble mistborn?

Thoughts?

This is the only thing I could think of.  The SI find a mistborn and say, "Hey would you like to be more powerful?  We can help but it has a price."  If the mistborn says yes, they get a spike.  Ruin would approve since it can consolidate its powerbase for the upcoming battle.  If Ruin controls all allomancers then it gets hard for Preservation.

[dawncawley]

The only question I think I might have a logical answer for is Zane. I don't think the SIs gave Zane his spike, I think his father did it, for more control, and a stronger Mistborn protector. Just my thought there.

As for the other questions, while they fascinate me, I have no idea as to any reason, rhyme, or thoughts on them. Thanks for the interesting reading though. You make the wait a blast.

[Andrew the Great]

CopperEye, your scenario makes a lot of sense. I agree that Ruin would have to be careful while the lord ruler was around.

The only question I think I might have a logical answer for is Zane. I don't think the SIs gave Zane his spike, I think his father did it, for more control, and a stronger Mistborn protector. Just my thought there.

That partially makes sense, but also partially not. If this is the case, how does Zane's father know how to create a hemalurgist? How does he know what it does? If he does know, it makes more sense than some random inquisitor, but it doesn't make much sense for Straff to know in the first place.