Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Reading Excuses => Topic started by: Hamster on February 03, 2009, 03:26:53 AM
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Okay, so this is my first serious attempt at writing, so hopefully its okay. :)In these section I was trying to give some background without doing an info dump and especially get across my magic system, while keeping it mysterious and interesting. Hopefully that got across! Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated. thanks for your time everyone
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Alright...I guess I'll be your first reviewer :)
First off...you have a lot of energy to your writing. A professor once told me that and I wasn't sure what it meant...I think I know, now. You clearly care about writing and it shows in your story. There's a lot invested in this story, and it was a fun read.
The story was an easy read...meaning I fell into it and really didn't pull my head out of it until it was over (at least, in chapter 1). It just had that continuous thought feel to it. I think part of that is good and part is bad...your paragraphs are so long that you don't give the reader a break while reading it...I would suggest breaking it up a bit, pace the story, give your reader a sense of pacing as they read.
Regarding the Prologue: yes, your instincts are right...it does sound much too like Robert Jordan...the first chapter would actually work well for your Prologue. And i would drop the Prologue...it feels like pre-writing...which is good for you to know, but we may not need it right now...but that's me.
Regarding the first chapter, it felt more like a scene than a chapter...for some reason, it just felt like there should have been more - which may be why it felt like a Prologue. And I don't think I know any of your characters, yet...the one I started to get to know died. The other one...I'm not sure if i'm supposed to get behind him or not, yet. He seems like a possible villain...which makes me reserve myself and keep from getting behind him. Is he an anti-hero? Is he a villian? I think you need to let us meet at least one of your primary characters in your first chapter...Who is the story about?
One of the men shouted out, ‘It’s a Soul Taker!’
For the line above, just jump straight to the dialogue...by saying, "One of the men shouted out..." before the actual dialogue, you steal the impact of it.
“Where are you!” His voice screamed at the forest, and the silence in the air screamed back at him. Wham, a
The "Where are you!" is overly dramatic and not very realistic...it sounds like a quick attempt to show frustration and desperation, but I don't care enough about the character to care about what he says...I would keep your fight scene dialogue free...unless the man that kills Arion speaks....that could be cool.
Also, I personally don't like sound words in stories (Wham)...unless you are describing something from a character's perspective...maybe...but even that in limited use...otherwise, it sounds way too much like campy, 60's Batman and Robin effects.
Something was not quite right.
This came out of nowhere...this is something you have to be very careful with...if, for example, your character notices this all of a sudden, and then it leads directly into a change in scene direction, then the reader can see through it and say "Oh...he just threw that in there as a transition to get from A to B"...Long and short of it...if something feels wrong, I think you have to introduce it just a bit earlier...give the reader some sort of clue...and maybe even carry it throughout the scene, at least giving it some sort of presence in the scene until the end when all of a sudden the meaning of its presence becomes clear.
this monstrosity of a man who rendered his own skills useless.
This is a good example of telling us something you've already done a good job of showing us...if he easily defeats Arion (which, fyi, seems unlikely), then we will know his skills dwarf Arion's.
glad that his plan worked out this well.
This is one of those things where it sounds a bit "hinky"...don't just tell us he had a plan and this was all planned...show us somehow...satisfaction he felt/shows, something about the whole thing that shows it was set up, etc. Show us a few things that show us he planned it...
Okay...finally, you write well...but I can't give a lot of feedback on the actual story yet because I don't feel like I know it...you have a scene and a bit of magic system in it...but i don't know if I've seen main characters or a proper setting, yet.
Ultimately, my biggest suggestion is to try not to be quite so dramatic throughout the story. The story feels as if you have a very dramatic sense of the story...that's cool...but (keeping in mind this is all I've read, thus far) you can't write an entire book/story with a sense of drama in it...at some point, it has to get down on the character level.
Looking forward to seeing where you're going with this!
(Don't be discouraged by the length of my review...I really did like it.)
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I'm afraid I have not received your email. Could you try sending it again? Thanks.
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Well, I second the notion that it is Robert Jordan-ish. Not a bad way to start, but I would suggest taking out the random guy who apparently dies nameless and insane at the very beginning he's far too much like Lews Therin, and it's impossible to actually care about him when we don't even have a name or a reason to go along with him.
Your writing style flows well, but you need to work on your voice. You switch between too many POV's in just a couple of pages. It makes it too hard for me (and probably others) to actually tell who we should be metaphorically rooting for. The end result is guy number one does some stuff switch to guy number two..he dies switch back to guy number one..he dies switch to guy number three..he has no name, description or obvious motivation. Now with this being a prologue, you CAN get away with a little of that, but I think you could probably tell the same story better if you simply used just one or two POV's instead of four.
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Thanks for the feedback, it really helps!
I am definitely going to take out the beginning part, it was just how I started my whole train of thought, with that scene, and then built the rest from there, so I felt like I owed it something, but I always liked my '1st' chapter better as a prologue.
Quote
One of the men shouted out, ‘It’s a Soul Taker!’
For the line above, just jump straight to the dialogue...by saying, "One of the men shouted out..." before the actual dialogue, you steal the impact of it.
About this, I agree, I actually originially just had the dialogue, "Soul Taker", but changed it because I didn't want people to think he was the Soul Taker that the book was named for, but thanks for pointing that out!
if he easily defeats Arion (which, fyi, seems unlikely)
Once you get to know this guy, well, it wont quite seem that way...
And about the pov switches, well, I have a bad habit of doing that that I want to change. But for the most part I like the switches here, because it gives you Arion's perspective, and then the guards surprise and fear as he takes them out, I feel like it wouldn't be as vague and intense, or as deckacards put it, 'dramatic', but I should probably take out the guy number 3, because his original connection for the reader came from a section of the prologue that I deleted, so thanks for pointing that out! I have already taken out some pov switches from my next few chapters.
And I don't think I know any of your characters, yet...the one I started to get to know died. The other one...I'm not sure if i'm supposed to get behind him or not, yet. He seems like a possible villain...which makes me reserve myself and keep from getting behind him. Is he an anti-hero? Is he a villian? I think you need to let us meet at least one of your primary characters in your first chapter...Who is the story about?
I was actually trying to get the reader to think along those lines...but you were kind've supposed to root for him, as an anti hero, so I should work on that...and he is a charater who would have been a very main character in a prequel, just to let you know, and you will find out more about him and why he did what he was doing in the next few chapters.
Ultimately, my biggest suggestion is to try not to be quite so dramatic throughout the story. The story feels as if you have a very dramatic sense of the story...that's cool...but (keeping in mind this is all I've read, thus far) you can't write an entire book/story with a sense of drama in it...at some point, it has to get down on the character level.
haha, well pretty much everything i've written so far, (about 4 chapters, 12k) is very much like that, very fast action paced, dramatic sense that you love so much :D. I am going to try to work very hard on character development, as the building character aspect is vital to my plot with the main character. I still need to try a style to write slower parts well, as I seem to rush a lot of stuff, and I try to cover that rushed sense with action... ::)
thanks for all your suggestions, I'm glad that you enjoyed it, and I'm really happy becasue this has done exactly what I was trying to do, and that's get me off my about 1year writers block! so extra thanks!
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Hamster, hello again. I remembered your story from when you posted it in Writing Group.
http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6188.0
In case you wanted to delete it or what have you.
I really can't add too much more than what has already been said, but I noticed some others talking about voice and style.
I thought these might help.
http://www.write101.com/lethamfind.htm
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/s.html#style
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Hello again to you Necroben, thanks for those links, they were quite helpful. And by the way, to deckacards and reaves, and anybody who reads this, could you send me your old chapters, because I would love to read everything. Thank you if you can.
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Ok, good story. Not much I can add except for a few observations.
There were a lot of sentences where you say something then threw in a comma and then say "and blah blah blah". Let me show you some examples: His eyes flickered between emerald and black before standardizing to grey, and he surveyed the devastation he had wrought.
The once exquisite walls were reduced to crumbling walls of ash, and his throne was a ruined mess of fire-blackened metal.
Coarse laughter drowned out all the sounds around him, and he was oblivious to the fire and death as the voices...
To me it just seems like the ", and blah blah" was added as a forethought. It is very strange and leaves the reader going.....whhhhaaaa?
I agree with the others, you need to break up the paragraphs. Readers get overwhelmed easily and see block after block of unbroken text and we get repulsed easily.
Description is good, and you are very good at it, but look at how much you put in this one paragraph...to me...it's too much. The dark around the area was thick and viscous; no forest life could be seen. A solitary figure crouched in the shadows, granite eyes glinted from beneath his hood, taking in his surroundings.....He was like a gargoyle, rooted to the spot, not a single movement, patient as stone. His head tilted suddenly, like a creature from the forest, as he listened intently, eyes turned toward the rough dirt road ahead of him.
Use description to SHOW us not tell us. For example, don't tell us his looked like a gargoyle. Say something like, "Motionless he sat, rooted to the ground, his eyes penetrated the darkness scanning for his prey." Something like that...but more coherent than my sentence.
You are a good writer, so keep up the good work.
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First off I just want to start by saying I think you have a lot of raw talent as a writer. Now you need to take that and refine it into something with depth, complexity, and nuance. Really the only way I can see for that to happen is to practice, so keep on writing!
I agree with what has been said about the Prologue part, but you said you'll take it out so I'll keep my peace.
The wind whistled through the oaks, casting an eerie tone over the moonless night. But that was the only sound to be heard in the secluded grove.
I'm not sure if that needed a sentence of its own; you could probably take out the "but that was" and just put a comma to connect the two sentences. It just reads awkwardly as it is.
one hand grasped an iron blade.
Is there a specific reason it is iron? I think this guy would have top-notch equipment, and in the world you've revealed so far that means steel.
You do a good job of describing a bleak and colorless world here, good descriptions overall.
You give us several sentences basically saying the same thing over and over again; the guards know their business. I'm not sure if you need so many.
You might want to consider making darkness more of a factor in the fight. I understand that Arion could easily have abilities that make it easier to see in darkness, but the guards would be having more trouble seeing in a moonless, starless night.
The Soul Taker was picking them off one by one. Soon only the captain was left, and he gaped in horror and awe at the carnage around him...
You might want to consider saying this differently. It takes us away from the action.
Good job describing the captain's fear! You did a good job of describing him.
A shadow leapt out at him, but as Arion, staggering, tried to avoid it; instead of being able to avoid it before it happened, and he felt an iron gauntlet strike his jaw and he fell again, spewing blood across the ground.
This sentence overall feels very awkward.
I think there was a lot to be interested about in this chapter. The world you've painted for us seems very bleak and I'm interested to see where you go with this. Thanks for sharing!
EDIT: Oh, and I'd be glad to send you previous chapters.
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Thanks again for the advice and compliments!
Reaves, when I first read your comment about the iron sword I had one of those "hit myself on the forehead for being stupid " moments, you are totally right about that, but then I thought about it, and actually I discovered that there is a specific reason for it to be iron, and it really helps a plot hole that I had in my head, so extra thanks!
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Thoughts While Reading:
Is the Empire shattering or already shattered?
Good images in the first chp.
Watch your POV. Arion seems to be the one you want the audience to connect to so I would stick with him.
Lots of fight scenes here, so shorten sentences and paragraphs.
Overall Impression:
You seem to have done some excellent world building and added some good tension to your world, but it feels a little glazed over. That is fine for a brief introduction, like a prologue, but if you really want to hook me then I need an emotional connection to a character as soon as possible. Then, all the wonderful action and suspense of your world will just be that much better.
Good work over all!
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Hello again to you Necroben, thanks for those links, they were quite helpful. And by the way, to deckacards and reaves, and anybody who reads this, could you send me your old chapters, because I would love to read everything. Thank you if you can.
I'm going to submit on Monday and if you still want I'll send my other submissions to you. I'll warn you though, its like 30k all together. If you still do, would you want it all in one file or broken up? Just let me know what you'd prefer, PM me, and/or e-mail me.
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Hi Hamster!
Yeah. Kill the prologue. It screams Robert Jordan. The ONE thing that it "might" have a use for is if that guy in the prologue turns out to be the same person who was inside the coach, then there could be a good argument for keeping -something- from that ancient time. By and large, it's not adding much, and frankly (no offense!) Robert Jordan did it better. :P ;-)
"Chapter 1" is screaming to be a prologue. But I think everyone here, including you, agree on that at this point, eh?
As others have said, you write really well. It's very easy to read your writing, and you have some pretty good action. The big challenge is your POV shifts. It's OK to do 3rd person omniscient, but if you choose to go that route, then stick with it.
Your Soul Taker character reminds me of a Mistborn. Minus the soul-sucking though! :)
This is a great first submission! Well done. My final piece of advice to watch out for fantasy cliches. You're fine for now (except your prologue), but just tread carefully in your next chapters. I get the sense that this story could hit a lot of them.
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thanks jwdenzel, I actually started writing this story thinking of Mistborn in mind, so it might have influenced it a little bit...
I know that I'm going to have cliches, but I'm kind've trying to set them up, and then knock them down, but I'm not sure how it's going to work. But thanks for the advice!
@ Necroben, sorry, I missed your comment earlier, but you sent them anyway, so thanks for those chapters!
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In terms of the errors, this looks like my first book. I believe that everyone has the same problems when they first starts, so take this with a grain of salt because it isn't meant to be insulting but constructive criticism.
The prologue is eerily similar to that of the Eye of the World. It also felt rushed. Being only one paragraph, I don’t think it constitutes as a prologue to begin with, but that’s just me—in my mind it would work better, if it is absolutely needed, as an omniscient opening paragraph rather than a prologue.
As for do you need it, I would say that depends if you are making a series or a standalone novel. In a standalone a prologue should probably be directly connected to the opening of the story—basically chapter one but with a different name.
Your paragraph structure needs a bit of work. The first paragraph of Chapter one should’ve been about three or four. When you change subject, you need to change paragraphs.
Either you are writing in third omniscient or breaking point of view by jumping onto the guards mind right before he gets attacked because in the paragraph before you were writing in “soul taker’s” point of view.
If Taker can cut a harness from a horse while flipping in the air, why wouldn’t he had just killed a man—or two considering he did all of this effortlessly—while in the air instead of sending the horses running. If they are trained horses—I don’t know enough about your world yet to decipher where they are and how trained the soldiers are—, they would return to their homes, thus warning that something had happened the riders.
Again another point of view, unless you’re writing in omniscient they need to be cleaned up because they are literary errors.
I take it that the man in the carriage wanted the guards to die because “his plan worked”, but if not, why would he let all the guards die before finally appearing?
You did a good job of giving a bit of world building info while not dumping at the end--which is the hardest thing to learn, so you're already getting there. But again, another point of view.
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Thanks for the tips maxonnis!
About my pov, well, it is only 3rd omniscient in chapter 1(which is now the prologue), but I think I need to change a lot about that in it, and your comments really make me feel like I need to.
If Taker can cut a harness from a horse while flipping in the air, why wouldn’t he had just killed a man—or two considering he did all of this effortlessly—while in the air instead of sending the horses running. If they are trained horses—I don’t know enough about your world yet to decipher where they are and how trained the soldiers are—, they would return to their homes, thus warning that something had happened the riders.
Well, his main goal was whatever was in the carriage, he knew that if he didn't take care of the horses first then they might run off with his prize, and he doesn't care if people know what happened to the guards( not riders, as the horses were pulling the carriage). He is more a brute assassin, finesse in his fighting, but not very subtle otherwise, not a spy/assassin; and it is actually part of his plan to let people know something happened( you'll find out more later, it's not riveting or anything, but it makes sense later on)
I take it that the man in the carriage wanted the guards to die because “his plan worked”, but if not, why would he let all the guards die before finally appearing?
this guy doesn't care about the guards, and because of the delicacy of what they were guarding, he would have killed them anyways, he let Arion kill them all because it saved him work. Also, he wanted to lull Arion into a false sense of security, partly because he's a little cruel, and partly even though it seemed like he totally dominated him in the fight, if Arion knew something was up, the man in the carriage would have to put up a fight. element of surprise my friend.
Hopefully this made sense to you, I'm not trying to be defensive or anything, so please tell me if my explanations don't make sense, but I think they do, thanks again for your comments!