Games > Role-Playing Games
Roleplaying CCG
The Jade Knight:
See, but no one goes around and argues that Neverwinter Nights isn't an RPG, and all of the arguments you can level against Munchkin can be leveled against NWN. Yes, you have kinds of RPGs that you prefer, but not everyone shares your elitism on the matter. Monty Hauls are famous in the RPG world (though treated with some disdain, few would argue that they can't be part of an RPG).
CSmythe:
NWN is not relevent to this discussion since we are talking about a pen and paper RPG here and still not in the video games forum. Video game RPGs remain a very different animal to a tabletop game so I am not sure why you insist on bringing them up.
Monty Hall games are a reality with gaming but I, and most RPG players that I know would argue that they are not a roleplaying experience. They simply happen to use the RPG's combat rules, and really are more like a card or board game then they are like an RPG.
My argument remains that Munchkin is not an RPG because it is neither a creative nor co-operative experience. Munchkin involves each player attempting to beat, by any means necessary your friends. Whereas RPGs involve getting together with your friends to overcome a series of challenges presented for you by your GM. Even the relationship with the GM in RPGs though is not a confrontational one, the GM provides the setting and scene with which the players interact but is not the enemy. RPGs are a co-operative storytelling experience, the goal of the game is to create an exciting and interesting experience for everyone involved.
Perhaps you should give us your definition of an RPG since apparently wanting to have RPGs with RP is something you consider elitist.
The Jade Knight:
But we're not talking about "Pen & Paper" RPG's. We're talking about a CCG, while, like a VG, is a very different beast than your traditional RPG.
If you say that Mony Haul experiences are "more likey a card... game", it might suggest that a CCG RPG would be a lot more like a CRPG than a traditional one, especially given the nature of "collectable" card games.
RPG's don't need to be creative or cooperative experiences, though it's certainly nice if they are. GURPS, for example, gave in their core rulebook a sample adventure which involved only one PC (it would have taken a lot of work to modify it to allow for multipler players), and only a limited degree of creativity. It was introductory, but the fact that it was not cooperative, etc., didn't seem to phase the GURPS folks.
For a definition, how's this?:
"A type of game, played either with pencil and paper, on a computer, or through another medium, in which the player(s) assume the role of a character. Gameplay is usually determined in part by statistics attached to each character and frequently influenced by a character class."
CSmythe:
If you check the first post the question was is their an RPG that uses a CCG style mechanic. Now as this was posted in neither the Video Games or CCG forum I was under the impression that the OP wanted an RPG of the pen and paper variety that used a CCG mechanic as a conflict resolution system. Perhaps I was wrong.
As to your second point I believe, again I may be mistaken, that using a CCG mechanic for conflict resolution does not necessarily make the game a different animal then an RPG. In fact a CCG reolution may well serve as a less random way of handling the conflict. In most RPGs the element of randomness is supplied by dice, playing cards, etc. But if you used a CCG, with a clear winner and loser after the game to determine the victor of the RPGs conflict then it adds a level of skill to the conflict itself instead of leaving it purely in the realm of chance.
In your GURPS example of the single player tutorial (for lack of a better word) was it a single player and no GM? To my mind if there is a GM as well as even one player then the story-telling is co-operative, though I must admit when it comes to gaming I tend to follow the Narativist school anyway.
I do like your definition, it was clearly well thought out. Personally I do not consider video game RPGs to be in the same vein as tabletop RPGs but that may well be a personal bias. I do enjoy video games of all types but find them to be more of a cinematic experience or like reading a book then I consider them to be a Roleplaying experience.
CSmythe:
A note for the OP, would you use the CCG resolution mechanic to represent a full combat? If you used a game like MtG for example you could easily simulate a wizards duel but it makes a melee a little harder to resolve. How would you handle additional combatants joining the combat? How would you use a CCG to handle disarming traps and similar non-combat encounters?
It is an interesting idea, I doubt though that most CCGs currently on the market are adapatable enough to handle the resolution of every possible situation. I also wonder since most CCGs tend to take a long time to play just how much time for the actual RPG would be left. There are games that use things like Rock, Paper, Scissors as the resolution mechanic and I know that this is a concept that is writ large across a number of CCGs so if you wanted to create one this might be the place to start.
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