Author Topic: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (re: TLE)  (Read 17221 times)

Mister M

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The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (re: TLE)
« on: April 21, 2006, 02:11:43 PM »
Those of you who worked on Leading Edge (BYU’s science fiction and fantasy magazine, for those who didn’t) know that there’s always been a tension between us and the English Department, most of it riding on the fact that some in the administration don’t consider SF&F literary enough to merit English Department support. Well, over recent years our support base has been eroding, with such longtime supporters as Doc Smith, Sally Taylor, and Linda Adams retiring or, in Doc’s case, dying. And all of that finally came to a head.

Sometime near the beginning of this semester, the English Department administration decided that they would no longer support Leading Edge. We don’t know exactly when this took place, as they informed neither us nor our advisor (Zina Petersen at the moment). In fact, had one of the editors not asked the College of Humanities about the possibility of some extra funding for possible projects, we might not know even now.

The basic reasons for the department’s decision seem to boil down to the following:

1) Several members of the department administration don’t consider SF&F literary enough to merit English Department support, both in terms of funding and our advisor’s time.

2) Leading Edge doesn’t really fit their definition of a student journal because it (a) doesn’t have a class specifically connected to it, (b) publishes largely non-student material, and (c) often has non-students as prominent staff members (such as our current associate editor). They admit we’re an excellent journal; we just don’t “fit” their definition of a student journal deserving of university resources.

I think the reasons are kind of lame, but I’m not the one making the decisions. Anyway, as soon as we found out about the decision (through the College of Humanities, not even the department) we started acting to prevent it, or at least survive the transition. Credit where credit’s due: the vast majority of this was done by Matt Gibbons, our managing editor, and many thanks to him for his hard work.

We tried getting sponsored by the Linguistics department, but for whatever reason they decided not to take us. (The reason I heard was the same about department resources; I don’t agree with that, but it’s what they say.) We tried going directly through the College of Humanities, like Quark and LTUE do, but apparently we still need a department to sponsor us.

(continued next post)
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Mister M

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2006, 02:12:12 PM »
And so it comes down to this: At the beginning of 2007, Leading Edge will become an independent magazine no longer affiliated with Brigham Young University. Since we have seven months to prepare, we’ve already started taking into account things we’ll be changing. Here’s a brief list:

1) We’ll still be working out of the Humanities Publication Center, but since the English Department doesn’t want us becoming a de facto student journal using the facilities for free, we’re working with Mel Thorne (HumPub supervisor) to rent the facilities. He was originally going to let us use them for free, so the rate should be reasonable.

2) We’re reducing our print runs to cut costs. Since we usually have a decent store of back issues, this isn’t going to cut into subscriptions any. We’re also switching to print-on-demand so that, in case we need more issues, we can print them as need be at minimal further cost. (This, among other things, has necessitated a change from our long-time partner MC Printing, to whom I will be sending an apology letter in the near future.)

3) We’re looking into becoming either a nonprofit organization or limited-liability company. Part of this is for tax and other protection in case we need to take out loans; part is to open the possibility of donations to keep the magazine afloat. (Hopefully asking for donations won’t be necessary, but it’s an option to keep open.)

4) Work is also underway to allow subscriptions to be bought online via credit card or paypal. We’re hoping this will increase subscriptions and, thus, revenue.

5) Although we won’t be able to offer Elang 351 (student journal) credit to BYU students anymore, we’re working with Linda Adams to allow Elang 399 (student internship) credit instead. This should help us keep a strong supply of university students coming, since not everyone comes (at least at first) out of love of the magazine.

6) Apparently in Matt’s trying to convince the department that SF&F is legitimate literature, he cited a professor that has since been hired on to BYU faculty. (I don’t know his name.) The English Department has said that if we manage to last two year on our own, and if he (or someone else) is willing to take us under their wing, there is a strong possibility of them taking us back. Whether that happens or not will likely involve financial considerations more than anything else, but it’s a possibility.

And I think that pretty much covers it. Like I said, most of this work was done by Matt Gibbons, so thank him for what help we’ve had. If you have any questions that I haven’t answered, or just want to rant, post below.

HOWEVER, please do not email the English Department with a rant saying how much you disagree with this, what a mistake they’re making, etc. We’re already on shaky ground as it is; a flood of angry emails will only make the situation worse. If you must express your feelings to them, I suggest a carefully written, polite, hardcopy letter sent via snail mail.

Since this post is probably the last thing I’ll officially do as TLE’s Senior Editor, I just want to thank all of you who’ve helped the magazine over the years. The dedication at TLE is enough that I don’t think it will die, and we’ll fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening—even those, like me, who are moving halfway across the country.

Thanks for listening.

(And again, please don’t email complaints about this to the English department. We need as much of their good grace as we can get right now.)
"When in Rome, do as the barbarians do. They won."

Fellfrosch

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2006, 02:57:20 PM »
Wow--this is very sad, and seems very stupid, but I can see their side somewhat. It seems like the better choice would have been to make TLE a more student-oriented magazine, rather than just cutting it loose, but having dealt with academic anti-SF prejudice for many, many years, I can understand why that wasn't the road they decided to take.

Let us know what we can do to help out. At the very least, it sounds like all of us ex-TLE-ers need to set up subscriptions.
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Jelly_Belly

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2006, 03:17:52 PM »
Just to clarify, since Jason frequently mixes the two positions up, I'm the managing editor currently and so well be in charge of the magazine for the next issue (not Matt who is the associate and will be managing. A minor detail, but is important to me since it means I will be in charge).

I would also like to thank Matt for the hard work he's put in and for helping me to take the magazine out on its own. If anyone has any ideas on how we can raise money to help with costs, let us know. It's hard to make money on a magazine that costs $4 to print (just for printing, not including payment to authors, artists, and contributor copies), and sells for $5. Because of this, we will have to raise costs from $4.95 to $5.95. Subscriptions are raised as well, but they won't really cover costs since we have to give a discount for subscriptions causing us to essentially lose money on them (although it helps get the word out and it's better to sell some of the print run and get closer to breaking even than to sell none).

As it is, it costs about $1500 total for each print run and we probably make back about $250 of that in subscriptions. Not much. So any help you guys can give whether it's getting the word out to everyone you know who might like it, getting subscriptions yourselves if you don't have one already (it's only like $10 a year!!), and whatever else you can do would be great.

Spriggan

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2006, 03:26:34 PM »
Umm.  If I'm not mistaken EUOL is BYU falcutly now, all be it part time, so he could be TLE's advisor.  Now that he's getting married I don't see him leaving Utah any time soon.

I would suggest getting Card to send them a letter, but considering how much BYU's English deparment and him don't get along that would probably only make things worse.

Though you could probably get all the big name Mormon fiction writers to send letter to BYU's president, just go over those deparment idot's heads.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 03:30:03 PM by Spriggan »
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Jelly_Belly

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2006, 03:27:49 PM »
It's not about having an advisor. Zina is our advisor, but the department doesn't want to use their money to pay for us anymore and they don't want their faculty to take time to help us (which is lame of course cause the time it takes is so minimal since we run ourselves!).

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2006, 03:32:08 PM »
Wow.

Just,... wow.

Let's ignore the baseless accusation that SF lacks academic merit (clearly, Orwell, Shelly, Poe, and Huxley aren't worth studying) for a moment. TLE has provided educational grounding for many students. Everything I know about publication either comes directly or can be traced to my time working at TLE. It's because of TLE that I could start doing other work, which is why I have my job today. Frankly, TLE has much more to do with my career than anything the English department did.

This is very sad.

If you guys need more allies, you may want to approach Dale Pratt in the Spanish Department. Mr. M took at least one class from him. He's the one that sponsored my ORCA grant about comic books. I don't know what he can commit to it, but it can't hurt to have faculty allies, right?

I'll start trying to send a $6 check for each issue, to do my part to keep you afloat. In addition, any work that you can farm out electronically to me I will volunteer to do.  I don't want TLE to die.

Parker

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2006, 03:33:18 PM »
EUOL teaches a class, but it'd be a stretch to call him faculty.  To become that, he'd really need to get a PhD and then get hired on as faculty.  As it is, the department's been very resistant to even let him stay on and teach one class a year.

Mister M

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2006, 03:36:05 PM »
Quote
Just to clarify, since Jason frequently mixes the two positions up, I'm the managing editor currently and so well be in charge of the magazine for the next issue (not Matt who is the associate and will be managing. A minor detail, but is important to me since it means I will be in charge).  


Blast it! And here I thought that just once I had managed to get it right.

*sigh* This is why I usually call them #2 Editor and #3 Editor.
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Spriggan

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2006, 03:36:06 PM »
No they officially hired him this year, he had an interview and all, so that they would allow him to teach.  I don't know if that qualifies as Falculty at the Y, it does UVSC, since he's only got a masters and is part time.  I do know that he is a staff member.
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Parker

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2006, 03:40:03 PM »
Okay--"staff" I could see.  Didn't know he had an interview.  Who with?  It takes a general authority interview to even become a one year "faculty" member.

Jelly_Belly

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 03:40:47 PM »
Quote
Wow.

Just,... wow.

Let's ignore the baseless accusation that SF lacks academic merit (clearly, Orwell, Shelly, Poe, and Huxley aren't worth studying) for a moment. TLE has provided educational grounding for many students. Everything I know about publication either comes directly or can be traced to my time working at TLE. It's because of TLE that I could start doing other work, which is why I have my job today. Frankly, TLE has much more to do with my career than anything the English department did.

This is very sad.

If you guys need more allies, you may want to approach Dale Pratt in the Spanish Department. Mr. M took at least one class from him. He's the one that sponsored my ORCA grant about comic books. I don't know what he can commit to it, but it can't hurt to have faculty allies, right?

I'll start trying to send a $6 check for each issue, to do my part to keep you afloat. In addition, any work that you can farm out electronically to me I will volunteer to do.  I don't want TLE to die.


Thanks, we really appreciate the support. We did look into being under another department, but unfortunately the only departments that the College felt we could be under is English, and Linguistics and English Language (which has the editing minor). Neither of these would take us and the College wouldn't let us be under them. So there you are.

I agree with you that it's a great experience for students. Much of the faculty (Linda Adams, Mel Thorne, and Zina Peterson at the top) are very supportive of us and think we're the most professional magazine at BYU, but what can we do. We'll be accepting donations as well, and so we're hoping to be able to get enough that way. And we still have our BYU bank account (which we are being given permission to take with us) which will help (but not a whole lot). Here's hoping we get enough money!

What will really help is being able to use the HumPub still and having student slaves volunteers to help us run it.

Shrain

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2006, 04:20:28 PM »
*sobs*

How freakishly annoying and sad! Rather depressing. Sure wish there was something else we haven't thought of....

Anyhow, I'll have to get myself a subscription instead of buying here and there. The raise in price seems like a definitely justifiable and smart thing to do, as well as allowing CC purchases. It's awesome that Mel is still behind you guys and trying to make the best out of everything. Too bad EUOL's presence can't deal with all of the issues stacked against the mag.  :(

Edit: Just wondering if maybe we should put this in a different section of the forum... esp. since we don't want to encourage emailed rants to the Eng. dept.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 04:24:31 PM by shrain78 »
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Jelly_Belly

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2006, 04:32:30 PM »
We may not be encouraging email rants, but it's still a rant because of frustration--just an internal TWG rant. But if an admin wishes to move it, that'd be okay.

Spriggan

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Re: The Vagaries of University Bureaucracy (TLE)
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2006, 04:33:06 PM »
It's fine where it is.
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.