Column: EUOLogy #15

[EUOL]

reference: http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=929

[42]

That article/rant makes no sense.

[MsFish]

Do you think it's always arrogance?  Because I think maybe sometimes its just hope.  You don't necessarily think you're better than the next person, but you don't care, and you hope that maybe somebody else will.  

[stacer]

Personally, I'd rather think of it as confidence. You can have a confidence in your abilities while still worrying that they're good enough. Can't you? I feel that way all the time, as an editor and in a lot of other parts of my life.

But to each his own. If thinking you're arrogant is what helps you work harder, great. But you can't let that spill over into your relationships with other people.

[Archon]

I really agree with EUOL on this one. You can ask many of my friends, or my enemies for that matter and they will tell you that I am arrogant. You could say that is a coincidence, but I dont really think so. MF forwarded the idea that it was hope, which I guess it could be, but that hope is usually based on something, and that something is the belief that you can write well enough to get paid a lot of money to do so. Without this base, hope will dissipate much more quickly.

Stacer, what you are describing just seems to be a nicer way to say the same thing.

[stacer]

Well, I consider myself a nice person.

[42]

I guess I see arrogance as thinking that the world and everyone in it owes you somehow just because you exist.

I don't think that is what EUOL is talking about.

[Archon]

No, I see people like that as being leeches. People who are arrogant are people who are good at something and they know that they are good at something. Or they arent good at something, and they still know that they are good at it.

[stacer]

ar·ro·gant    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (r-gnt)
adj.
Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others: an arrogant contempt for the weak. See Synonyms at proud.

arrogant

adj : having or showing feelings of unwarranted importance out of overbearing pride; "an arrogant official"; "arrogant claims"; "chesty as a peacock" [syn: chesty, self-important]

----

So, I would guess it would depend on how proud you are. I go for humility, myself. (She says proudly.)

[Archon]

I still dont think that that means you think that everyone else owes you something. You can assert that you are better than other people, and still want to make your own way, if only because you think that other people would mess it up.

[EUOL]

I really think that you have to be arrogant, just as it's defined by Stacer's post.

You have to believe that your work is superior to others.  Now, I say these things just a bit tongue in cheek--kind of like Oscar Wilde referred to writing fiction as 'lying.'  However, there's a root of truth in the fact that I think in order to make it in this business, you really have something more than simple 'confidence.'  You have to believe that people should PAY YOU MONEY to tell them stories.

[Brenna]

I don't think you have to be arrogant to believe that people should pay you money to do things like tell stories.

I see it more as being supremely confident, but not "overbearing" or whatever. It's an exchange of goods/skills just like any profession.

I can see someone needing to be a bit arrogant to be a writer in a culture that thinks entertainment is useless, in the sense that stories aren't vital to one's daily sustenance, but in any culture that thrives on entertainment and information, storytellers are a vital part of the community. To *be* a community, stories must exist and be shared.

Is it just that an author has to think they're good enough to get published over all the other people trying to get published?  How is that different from a person trying to get established in any other profession?


I think people should pay me very good money to help them fix their stories so that they are publishable, but I don't think that's arrogant.  I believe that I should get hired as an editor, and that people who don't hire me are missing out, yet I continue to strive to improve my skills and make myself a better editor at the same time.

I don't get every job I apply for (though of course I think that I should get a job that I apply for--I wouldn't have applied if I didn't think I could do an excellent job), but I keep trying. I know that I'm good at what I do, and I know that if I keep trying I'll have success. But again, I think that's just confidence in myself and the effort I've put into my chosen field, not arrogance.

By the way, hi everyone! I've been gone lately because I got a new job.

[stacer]

Yeah, that's what I meant, Brenna. I see your point, EUOL, but I still think there's something to be said for humble confidence.

[Archon]

The difference is that with arrogance, you believe that you can do it better than anyone else, whereas with confidence, you believe you can do it well. When you are arrogant, you know that nobody else can write like you can, which makes you confident that you are unlike anyone else. There are a lot of good writers out there, so you can't just be confident that you are good, because so are they. You have to know that you are better, which is arrogant.

[MsFish]

I completely disagree.  If I could do something better than anyone else in the world, and I knew it, that wouldn't make me arrogant.  I'd be arrogant if I thought that doing that thing better made me a better person that them, or if I were cruel to them for it...like the "contempt for the weak" part of the definition.  It's the sense of entitlement that makes a person arrogant, not the act of trying to do something you're good at.  The confidence (or whatever you want to call it) that I might be the best for a job doesn't make me arrogant unless I take it to the next level and think that because of it I have more value.  

That's what I think, anyway.