Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: SparrowHawk on December 30, 2008, 02:34:51 AM
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I read another post here about the ending, with critique on how some people found it disappointing. It didn’t seem to capture what I wanted so say, so here we are on this thread.
I did find the ending disappointing, but not for the ending itself. I think the book ended appropriately. Everything was wrapped up, and I think that the ending itself was all well and good. I don’t dislike books that end with the main actors dieing. On the contrary, I find that books where the main people die to be some of the best books. I’m not sure how to sum up my feeling toward the end of this series except with this one sentence…
I didn’t cry.
I should have.
Lord knows I secretly cry like a babe over movies and books and songs and the like. More then I’m comfortable admitting. Thankfully nobody knows me :)
Anyway, with the ending as it was, I can’t help but feel like it should have been more of a tearjerker.
Perhaps his literary style of jumping viewpoints during high action scenes worked against him in this instance. Maybe it was the viewpoint; maybe we should have watched it more through Vin’s eyes. Maybe it was Vin’s lack of concern.
I understand that Vin’s “lack of concern” (bad phrase, I know) was how he ultimately explained her doing what she did, I just feel like it was the wrong move here. I think that it should have been more along the lines of her undying love that now made her able to make the ultimate sacrifice. I think that an ending like this deserves to be wrought with emotion. Emotion that the reader feels very keenly.
I am by no means a literary genius (you read this post, you know). I can’t explain how I felt that it should have ended. I have no idea how I’d “fix it”. I ask that you, as a reader of this opinion put much more stock into statement “I didn’t cry”, and comment from there. Put less weight to all the other fluff that I used to try to explain things.
I also have to state that I loved the series. I thought it was wonderful, and I read the whole thing in a matter of weeks (it would have been days, if I didn’t need to think of a Christmas gift that I could tell people to get me). I would not have come here to comment if I didn’t love the series.
Anyway, just one man’s humble opinion.
EDIT: (i never alter my posts... "let the record stand"... instead I add a section like this)
"Disappointed in the ending" was a bit too harsh, perhaps. I'm not disappointed in the ending, I did say that the ending was appropriate. The "ending" I speak of was just a portion of the ending anyway. "There are no [endings] in the..." oops, never mind :) Anyway, I just wanted to speak of the emotion of that one small section. I'm going to shut up and "let the record stand" Just want to make sure people didn't take it the wrong way.
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I too wanted to cry. I've only cried over one book; it was Killer Angels, a civil war-type book. It was my second or third read-through, and I was reading the end about Pickett's charge during the battle of Gettysburg, and I finished it and went up to my room and cried. I hated that book, hated it, because it touched me so deeply and because I knew it was all real.
I'm still a bit afraid to pick it up.
The ending of HOA didn't really strike me as dissapointing, just...well, I don't know. I agree with you, it could have been a bit more emotional.
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I kind of disagree. I quite enjoyed the fact that the ending managed to kill off two of the main characters, but made the deaths seem natural and not as sad as they could have been. But then, I think this better fits with my personal ideas about death. (when the characters have a definite afterlife to go to in a book, death isn't quite as tragic. I think that's part of what made it less sad) I actually have a lot more respect for the books mostly because the ending works in the ending and destruction of most of the world, yet I get more of an emotion of peace out of the end of it, then sadness.
Loki
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Well, the thing I seems strange to me is the ending itself. The last pages, that is. I mean, they were in a building, they go out and... grass wherever they can see? No buildings, no... anything? I mean, that's going to be hard on them. It just seemed to me... strange.
For the rest, I really loved it. Brandon is really good at writing both logical and unexpected en dings. When Elend died and Vin said he should have been dead since the end of book two, and it had been just a present the time she had with him since then... I wanted to cry. But well, Elend is my favourite character, so no surprise there. And I think Vin's actions were the... well, what they should be given Vin's life.
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I got a little misty eyed at the end of HoA, I'll admit it. Although I truly did cry when Sazed found Tindwyl's body in WoA. :'(
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I got a little misty eyed at the end of HoA, I'll admit it. Although I truly did cry when Sazed found Tindwyl's body in WoA. :'(
Yeah, that hit me a lot harder then the end of HoA. I really wanted to tear up when Vin and El died. I was broken when Kel did. I'm not quite sure if Brandon wanted this effect...but meh. I think when a main char dies, you should be tearing up--but that might just be me.
EDIT:
And if that was a bit unclear, I (mostly) agree with the OP. I liked the ending, but I don't think it was as emotionally powerful as it could have been.
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I got a bit moved at the ending. I really enjoyed the end, I believe it to be one of the best I've read(and watched for that matter). When Elend was killed I was a bit sad to be totally honest, but what really moved me(and got me all misty eye'd). Was that speach Elend gave at the caves. I really dont know what im getting at here. Just want to say something about the speach.
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I, too, liked Elend's last words in the speech he made a lot. It was like "ok, so you weren't sure you would fit as an emperor or as a king... thewre you have your answer".
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I don't know. I think that Brandon tapped into strong emotions without having to make people want to cry. I felt almost. . . . proud. I'm not going to lie. When I read a series I tend to make strong connections with characters and I mourn their passing. The thing about these characters is not that I wasn't connected to them and that I didn't want them to live. It was more that the sacrifices they made during the duration of the trilogy kind of described them. The final sacrifice in the name of everything they stood for was nothing more than valiant and it made me proud. I didn't want to cry because . . . . well because that was who they were. They were the saviors of a world. Their passing was very iconic and brilliant. For those characters to have the story end in any other way would have been a shortcoming on their behalf. They deserved to do everything they could to save their world and in the end they did.
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I didn't cry at Elend's death because I fooled myself into believing that Brandon was trying to trick me again. He is very tricky. I was sure that Elend would pull through. But by the time I figured out that he wasn't going to pull through, I was at the point of Vin's death. And at that point I knew it was right.
I was reading through the last chapter thinking, I hate this ending, I hate this ending, then I finished the last page and said to myself, "I love this ending"
It was an interesting experience :D
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I loved the ending because it wasn't "wrought with emotion". I HATE it when a book pulls out all the emotional stops when someone dies, usually at the end, to give that great cathartic experience. It is very hard to do well. A lot of times I find myself crying but irritated at the suddenness or maudlin tone of the death.
Vin and Elend's deaths felt natural and completed their life. I did shed a few tears but then again, I cry at the end of Lord of the Rings every time Frodo leaves from the Grey Havens too.
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I don't know. I think that Brandon tapped into strong emotions without having to make people want to cry. I felt almost. . . . proud. I'm not going to lie. When I read a series I tend to make strong connections with characters and I mourn their passing. The thing about these characters is not that I wasn't connected to them and that I didn't want them to live. It was more that the sacrifices they made during the duration of the trilogy kind of described them. The final sacrifice in the name of everything they stood for was nothing more than valiant and it made me proud. I didn't want to cry because . . . . well because that was who they were. They were the saviors of a world. Their passing was very iconic and brilliant. For those characters to have the story end in any other way would have been a shortcoming on their behalf. They deserved to do everything they could to save their world and in the end they did.
wow this sums up it all. I totally agree^-^
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I loved the ending too. I, also hate when emotioanl strings are tugged for their own sake. In this instance, Vin and Elend get to be together again in a way. they have "moved on" and that in itself was emotional without being overly so.
also, the ending left open a new beginning (possibly a new series) for the future. Basically, a colonization type setting, where you have a lush world with zero settlement, but a shedload of people. for the most part, all of the cities and towns had been destroyed anyway, levelling them wasnt really that bad of an idea.
But back to Vin and Elend: Their deaths where actually quite apropo, and if they had not died, I would have been disappointed.
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I didn't cry much at all, despite how much I wanted to. I cried a lot at Kell's death, so it's odd that I didn't cry hardly at all for Elend or Vin, even though I liked both of them a lot more than Kell.
And I absolutely loved the ending. I also think it was emotional--even if I didn't cry. It had other emotions wrapped up in it. I know this, because for the next couple of days--almost a week--after finishing it, I couldn't stop thinking about it. I was so caught up in the ending of it that I couldn't write my own stuff...I also don't think I could listen to music (although this was somewhat self-imposed. I was going to compose a song about the end on the piano, which I never did finish...shame, that. Woulda been epic).
Anyway. I wouldn't want the ending changed for anything. It's incredible just the way it is. Definitely one of the best endings I have ever read in any book.
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How very odd. I don't think I cried either (I don't remember, which means I probably didn't much if I did...)--and if I did I'm pretty sure it was out of anger instead of sadness. I cry at everything. Weddings for people I barely know, random shows, new year's when I realized 2008 was over...I cry at everything.
At the end of the book, I felt more angry than sad. I felt a lot more emotion at the end of Mistborn and WoA. The end of HoA I was just like..."What? Ok, that's stupid." I know everyone else loved the ending, that was just my reaction to it. I mean like...Elend's life the last year was a gift? Whatever! The mist spirit killed him in the first place to get her to use the power. He wouldn't have really died if they weren't involved in the whole thing. I didn't think that made any sense--and even if it does, it certainly isn't what I would have thought if my husband had just got his head chopped off, even if he had previously been stabbed! I wouldn't get to the "Oh, well, the last year was a gift anyways," until after at least a month of mourning.
Vin never even had a real life... Breeze and Alrianne get to settle down, but Vin and Elend don't? *Sigh* I guess I'm still angry...I love Mistborn and Brandon's books, though.
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I remember the end of book 2 being very emotional and crying. I can't recall crying at the end of book 3, but books choke me up all the time, so I'm assuming I shed a few tears at the end of book 3. That would seem to agree with most of your comments that the end of book 3 wasn't as emotional as the end of end of books 1 and 2. Interesting .. I hadn't ever thought about it, until reading your posts.
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We finally finished reading it out loud last night. I was the one reading, and I knew what was coming, but I still got really choked up. Of course, books make me cry a lot (and books that touch me emotionally are my favorite books), but you'd think the lack of a shock would make it less emotional. It didn't.
Brandon really ramped it up in the revision. For me, everything was just right.
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What did it for me was Spook's scene.
He had just realized that he had been used by Ruin and stripped himself of his hemalurgical powers. Because of his long sacrifice to the cause, he felt pain when he was using his Allomantic abilites and absolutely nothing when he was not. For his final sacrifice he emulated Kelsier, extinguishing his tin so that he would not succumb to the pain and forsakeing a life with Beldre so that others could survive.
I felt the book ended as it should. Vin and Elend dancing off into the yonder, Beldre seeing the man despite the damaged flesh, Spook healed from the sacrifice he should not have survived, Sazed finding his purpose and everyone else rewarded with a new world full of possibilities beyond just living to see another day.
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I really loved the ending for Spook. His parts in the whole book were great. I loved seeing his past--and I think he did have some of the most emotional parts in the book for me.
Also, Demoux lived--that was my side character that I liked and was sure would die every scene he was in since book one. He's going to die in the first attack (first book)...(second book) oh no he's the spy kandra! (third book) Surely he can't survive the final battle...
But hurray (or huzzah ;) )!
It's just the whole no Vin and Elend to rule the world thing that makes me sad. I really do love Mistborn...I just don't deal well with death I suppose. :)
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Hey all. I am new to this forum. I started reading Brandon Sanderson like 2 weeks ago, and finished the Mistborn series as of yesterday night. Now, I consider myself a fan and a bigtime fan to be(Yeah, I think he is THAT good).
Anyway, the ending did seem..peculiar to me. I guessed a lot of stuff throughout the book before they happened but Sazed ending up as a God? Now that IS certainly unexpected. It was a very, very clever thing to do I guess. He had all the knowledge in the world and dismissed them because of his despair in the last book(turning our head in another direction). His lack of faith(again turning our head in another direction). His politeness, life of servitude (I think he would make a god to answer prayers as much as he can, sounds like serving where as Kelsier, Vin and Elend are resting in the afterlife) and him being Eunuch (I'm not a native speaker, and I thought the word was spelled as "Unique", made it brilliant for me) so being a bit less (or more maybe?) man in turn human in that sense.. Yes, it was very, very clever plotting in deed.
Still, I can't say I was completely satisfied though. I am biased, for Sazed was not my favorite character. I LOVED Vin. The urchin, the lady, the mistborn, the knife, the empress, the goddess. I simply loved her. I was hoping that the small writings in the beginning of each section was Vin's, not Sazed's.
That being said, after Kelsier's death, Vin's perspective gave us enough insight and time for his death to sink in. And it DID hurt. But Vin and Elend being the very core of the books, I think the time (the pages rather) was not enough for their deaths to sink in. Too much happened in too little time. One could almost say their deaths were told in a matter of factly tone. In my opinion, that explains why people cried at Kelsier's death, but not for Vin and Elend's. But maybe, that was the intention, we were on "god perspective" so to say, how could one man's death be so important?
I loved the final note of Sazed though.
All in all, I think that was an ending far more interesting then most(maybe all) books I've read.
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I didn't get emotional at Kel's death because I saw it coming from miles away. Books 2's ending was full of tragedy, and I remember feeling the deaths of the characters strongly. Book 3, for me, had every bit the emotional impact as the prior books, but it wasn't sad at all for me. It was a completely different feeling. I fully expected Vin and Elend to bite the dust. It was one of those things where I thought, "well, either the world will die or those two characters will." The impact of Sazed becoming a god - and having his faith restored - was far more powerful than any other ending I could imagine. The intense feeling I was filled with was satisfaction and peace.
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Where to start...
Vin and Elend's deaths were inevitable. I can't really imagine a world in which Vin and Elend are living as king and queen. They're just not the type to live in a peaceful world. Also, I'd like to point out that all the good books I've ever read almost always kill a character who you don't want to die. It's basically essential to put some tragedy in it; otherwise it seems like defeating the dark lord was simple and easy. A book needs to surprise you to the extent that you're never quite sure what's going to happen. Without that, there is no suspense and the reader is never afraid of something bad happening.
The third book ended on a happy note, and that is good. I, personally, don't really enjoy a series that ENDS on a tragic note. It needs tragedy, but doesn't need to leave you with it.
Kelsier's death in the first was very tragic. I'll admit I was a little mad when it first happened, but the series gave it time to sink in and at the end it seemed necessary. The reflections on his last words helped with that especially (I am hope). I really like how he's looked at like a hero through the rest of the books, in memory. And besides, as I think Brandon Sanderson said Kell just needed to die because if he didn't, he'd always be in control of everything. He didn't allow the other characters to develop.
I loved the series as a whole, especially its system of magic. There are only two things I didn't like:
1) I was a little dissappointed in how Rashek turned out to be good. I realize Ruin was strongly influencing him, but I still think it kind of ruins the horrifying way the first book portrays the Final Empire. Mistborn set it up as a horrible, cruel world (I know there's a better adjective I'm looking for here, but I can't think of it) and that was the main reason why Kell's death was so meaningful. By making the Lord Ruler a good person the book kind of ruined Kell's whole purpose.
2) The ending of HoA seemed a little rushed and/or cut short. I think there should have been a little more epilogue material.
OK, that was a little harsh. The series, all in all, was amazing. I'm looking forward to Brandon's future work.
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I don't think Brandon was unequivocally saying Rashek was good. I think there's a lot of evidence that he wasn't a very good person—just because he was trying to save the world doesn't mean he went about it in a good way. The ends do not justify the means.
When it comes to denouement, sometimes as much as some readers want is too much. Yes, Brandon could have told us what happened to everyone (how Cett spent all day just enjoying walking around, how TenSoon got his sanity back), but it would have lessened the impact of what he did put in the epilogue.
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1) I was a little dissappointed in how Rashek turned out to be good. I realize Ruin was strongly influencing him, but I still think it kind of ruins the horrifying way the first book portrays the Final Empire. Mistborn set it up as a horrible, cruel world (I know there's a better adjective I'm looking for here, but I can't think of it) and that was the main reason why Kell's death was so meaningful. By making the Lord Ruler a good person the book kind of ruined Kell's whole purpose.
Not really as because as the Lord Ruler is revealed to not be completely evil another being is being revealed to be worse the Lord Ruler ever was. The creapiness just increases.