Author Topic: These Stupid Titles VIII  (Read 75213 times)

little wilson

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #645 on: April 10, 2009, 08:13:47 PM »
Wow. That is seriously awesome. Discussing principles of the Jedi religion? Freaking cool, that's what that is...
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Miyabi

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #646 on: April 10, 2009, 08:53:16 PM »
Yeah.  I used to be on there quite often, but there ended up being way too many trolls to even bother.  I don't know what it's like now though.
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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #647 on: April 10, 2009, 09:00:01 PM »
Haha! So Obi-Wan Kinobi was a Buddhist. Ha!
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Miyabi

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #648 on: April 10, 2009, 09:05:18 PM »
Well if you think about it.

Buddhism

You aren't supposed to kill anything.  (It's debatable whether if it saves life or not if it's OK. :|)

You aren't supposed to be attached to the physical world.

You are not supposed to have intimate relationships.  (That's attachment)

You are supposed to be devoid of emotions that will control you.

Jedi

You don't kill unless it is an enemy that refuses to surrender and they just keep coming at you.

They don't believe in relationships because it causes bad emotions.

You aren't supposed to get angry or love because they cloud your judgment.


Worded differently, but basically the same thing.
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Renoard

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #649 on: April 10, 2009, 09:10:45 PM »
Yes I always thought the Jedi religion would have produced people like the Emperor and the Sith religion would have produced the Obi Wans and Yodas.  Because without passion and compassion (VERY earthly emotions) you really can't care enough to try and stop the biga badas.
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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #650 on: April 10, 2009, 09:19:27 PM »
But if you dig deep enough into the Sith religion it is all about being the ONE who is on top.  It's core teachings say that there can be only two:  The master and the apprentice.  It's all about gaining power through those harsh emotions.
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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #651 on: April 10, 2009, 09:31:41 PM »
And usually religions centered on gaining power are unhealthy.  :D
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Miyabi

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #652 on: April 10, 2009, 09:35:40 PM »
Definitely.  One thing I don't like about the Christian religion is that they tried for so long to hide all of the gnostic books that talked of knowing oneself and finding a personal relationship with God.  Most Christian religions now are extremely focused on their hierarchy and the need of priests and such.   Very few of them encourage people to find God themselves and to gain a personal relationship with him.  They are all about going to church and worshiping with the congregation and the need for confessing to a priest or father instead of talking of these things with God himself.  They say that most people aren't worthy to speak directly to god and that he only speaks to higher authority figures within the church.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 09:57:55 PM by miyabi »
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Renoard

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #653 on: April 10, 2009, 09:53:45 PM »
I think you mean gnostic rather than nostalgic.  Those books were rejected for fairly scientific reasons of historicity, fraudulent authorship and wildly different teachings.  It's the sesame street test, On of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn't the same..."
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Miyabi

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #654 on: April 10, 2009, 10:00:59 PM »
Sorry about the typo.  I have it set to automatically assume what I was trying to type and I spelled it wrong so it changed it to nostalgic.

It is well accepted amongst most of the biblical scholar community that the majority of these books were written within the same time period and under the same circumstances.  The differences were that some supported the hierarchy of the church and others supported individual relations with God.  It was at the council of . . . I forget the word, where Constantine united the Christian faiths together and decided what would best serve to unite Rome that these books were suddenly considered heresy and banned from within the faith.
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Renoard

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #655 on: April 10, 2009, 10:11:40 PM »
Sorry Miyabi this is my discipline.  Majority is certainly not in agreement that the gnostic gospels are of an age with the NT writers.  Also Constantine was only able to consolidate the Roman church as he had no authority beyond Rome's admittedly huge borders.  But even within the Roman Empire their continued to be dissent.

There has never been a time when there was a single monolithic Christian church.  It has always been sectarian. And wide divisions on a lot of issues have predominated.  However, one thing that has always been in agreement and it goes back to the Council of Nicea, is the canon.  In fact the Jewish sects that reject the New Testament as a work from an opposing faith, agree with criteria and methodology that rejects the gnostics.  The canon of the TaNaKh (Torah, Nevyim, Khetuvim) is identical to the OT for this reason.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 10:22:07 PM by Renoard »
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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #656 on: April 11, 2009, 02:18:09 AM »
I'd generally like to second what Renoard is saying, with the exception of noting that, in Western Europe, the Catholic Church was pretty monolithic for about 1,000 years.  Not 100% exclusively so, but at least 90-99% so.

I also happen to belong to a Christian religion that supports pesonal relationships with deity (as do many other members of this forum).
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Miyabi

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #657 on: April 11, 2009, 07:35:05 AM »
But Jade, that is a newer concept that is beginning to be brought back that been basically abolished for hundreds of years.  It is just recently starting to become something found in religion again.  The Mormon faith is young when it comes to religions.  In this manner it is actually quite a ground-breaking religion.

Renoard - The majority of the people that study ancient documentation agree that they all come from around the same period in time.  The consensus TRENDS towards them all having been written within 2-3 generations of the passing of the people in which they are named after.
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Renoard

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #658 on: April 11, 2009, 06:08:21 PM »
Miyabi,
It is true that the gnostics were written in a cluster near one another and the majority of scholarship agrees that this was at least as late and the 4'th century.

To find a majority of scholars who agree that the works of the New Testament were written that late you would have to take a sample that did not include those who are members of various Christian sects.  I'm not arguing about faith.  But you have to find skeptics and crack-pots who have a vested interest in disproving any divine origin in order to find any large number who are willing to go out on a limb and claim definitively that any of the NT texts were not written by the men who's names were applied.

The issue arises because we don't have a single manuscript, meaning something written in the hand of the writer.  We have only copies of copies because the media themselves were subject to wear and tear.  Also because the letters (in the case of the epistles) were circulated and possibly even collected into anthologies.  Instead redaction and hermeneutics have to be applied, along with archeology to determine dates relative to verifiable events, language patterns and quirks of the author.

You have to be a pretty dishonest scientist to say that the because of the carbon dating of the media on our oldest copy is X therefore the document is only as old as X.  So instead, we get a lot of vague claims most of which are pretty specious and which come from wild-eyed extremists with an axe to grind.  It's been vogue to bash the Bible, Christians and Jews for so long that people have begun to accept hate speech as science and bias as scholarship.

But when you allow ALL the players at the table (i.e. don't exclude those who happen to believe the bible's contents) in the debate about the language science.  The TREND is toward the men who are named as author being the men who were the writer's or at most the men who dictated the content to an amanuensis.  Granted they probably used a document which has been lost as a reference work, but that doesn't precluded the idea that men facing death may have written or dictated their accounts in order to preserve their faith.

My Advisor was a Harvard Don who would have sneered at the idea of the gnotics being contemporary with the four NT.

But we've gone pretty far afield from discussion of the Level titles.  Can't wait to see what I get next.  ;D
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Miyabi

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Re: These Stupid Titles VIII
« Reply #659 on: April 12, 2009, 03:28:33 AM »
Yes, yes we have. ha ha.  I guess the knowing exactly when they were written is still debatable, but some of them were referenced as early as 150 A.D. making them have been written the same time and the current NT.

P.S. I level up this post. . . wonder what it is.

EDIT:  Now I'm a High Ward Trainee. . . hmmm.
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