June 1, 2009- The Junction, Ch. 2 part 2- RavenstarRHJF

[RavenstarRHJF]

Like I said, this is extremely short.  Basically, I decided to end the chapter before going on to a different view point, so this is just to end the chapter before moving on.  That said, there's some important information here, so don't just treat it as filler. 

Let me know what you think!

[Chaos]

Hey Ravenstar, it's my first time reading your stuff, but I've caught up on all your Junction stuff, so I'm ready to critique! I fear that this post will be rather fractured as I comment on various chapters, but hopefully it will make some sense. Especially with this chapter being a bit short, I think this is opportune timing for a larger-scale critique. I will focus on Chapter 2 as a whole, however.

You certainly like the large paragraphs! Not that it's a bad thing at all--it flows very nicely. It's just, wow, those are much larger paragraphs than what I write.

I'm liking what you're doing with your magic system, this submission especially. In the first chapter it felt a bit intimidating, but now that we are immersed more in your world, it isn't bad. I am most interested to see how it develops! I definitely liked the explanation for the trio's unconsciousness.

I did, however, have one major issue with this submission. We seem to switch into Qwerlik Talon's viewpoint right after Taq's, without any sign of a scene break. Taq comments on the Infirmary smelling slightly off, and shortly thereafter Talon is using his Mentalist powers, which appear to be a direct viewpoint error. At first it made me think you were writing from an omniscient viewpoint, but the previous chapters had Meles and Taq as viewpoint characters, respectively, which makes this section seem weird. There's no way Taq would know what Talon is seeing. So unless we're doing omniscient, pick Talon or Taq, not both.

That's really my only issue with this submission. The rest of my post will deal with previous submissions, if you don't mind .

Meles's viewpoint seemed very rushed and disorienting, because you aren't revealing any of his conflicts. I half thought that you'd introduce more about the night hunters and make it a major point immediately, but alas, it was not to be. I think I just have this odd affinity towards dark creatures. The chapter gets much better once we realize what's going on, though.

I read the Chapter 2, part one critiques, and I have to side with Frog on that front: parts of the Council scene appear extremely infodump-like and mostly irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether Mentalists are elitist (though I must say, I agree with Taq about their weakness. Seems like they should be weaker socially than more powerful). It seems more like a long-term conflict you could reveal later. I enjoyed the Council scene, but I think less info-dump would make it more effective.

Side note, how do I pronounce "Meles"? Stress on the second syllable, I presume?

Overall, I quite like it! I am especially intrigued about the Boundary and the Junction. I want to know more.

[RavenstarRHJF]

I'm glad you like it so far!  And that's a good catch about the viewpoint error- I'll fix it.   Silly me. 

Yeah, the council scene needs work.  Frog actually said earlier that she's not sure I'm starting the story in the right place and I'm beginning to agree with her.  However... I have to keep the plot moving forward just so I can finish.  If I start rewriting now... it'll probably be years before I finish.  I'm trying to keep the info dumping to a minimum.  Maybe I can play around with some flash-back scenes, but yeah... basically, I'm just trying to keep it going forward.

I pronounce Meles name with an emphasis on the "Mel," but not much of one.

[Chaos]

Hmmm, was Frog suggesting to cut the Meles section completely? If so, I could see that working, with a bit of effort.

Yes, please don't rewrite now. That's what killed my novel and made me just want to start something new.

So it's "MEL-ez". I was pronouncing it "muh-LEEZ". I like your way better

[Writerainge]

Ravenstar,

You are my first official critique here in this forum so... THANKS for letting me read your stuff.   
I'm also excited to see other women here so, I hope to read a lot of your work!

Regarding your submission:

I thought your prose was quite sound and your dialogue tight.  The flow was easy to immerse myself into, which is often a rare find in amateur writers (pre-editor).  Even in this short submission, I felt lost, as though I wasn't sure what was going on, but it seemed as though you wanted me to feel that way.  It lent the entire story a mysterious allure that made me very interested to keep going.  I felt as though your descriptions could have used just a little tweaking...   I wanted to know more about what the T'wan looked like, what sort of creatures they were, defining characteristics, etc.  Also, I wanted to get a little more description of the facial expressions/body language of Taq and Tolan as they conversed.  Again their dialog was very good, realistic, and paced so well, but something like 90% of communication is body language and I like to "see" that on tha page as well it can add such dimension to an already fabulous scene.

I was interested and impressed by the way you titled things and people.  i.e.  Infirmarian, Breach, Mentalist, Junction etc.  Really lends it that "other world" quality where you know right off, you're not here and now... very creative. 

Just a few tiny things:  First paragraph, ~ "affect" needs to be changed to "effect"  I think...
                                                                               ~Tolan stands "Swiftly" twice... although Taq does not.
                                                                               ~ and in your dialogue, I wondered if the characters say "do not" rather than "don't" on purpose?  Only because that made them seem  a little stiff and unrealistic if they did that all the time... but if that is part of your characterization, then it needs to be done consistently, I suppose.

In all, VERY interesting and nicely done!  I can't wait to read more!   

~Miranda

[Chaos]

Miranda, would you like me to email you the other parts of the Junction? I know you're new so you can't possibly have seen the older submissions, but I'm sure anyone is more than willing to resend it for you.

[Writerainge]

That would be lovely!

Thank you

[RavenstarRHJF]

Thanks Miranda!  I'm glad you like it and want to read more- that's a good sign.  As for the "lost" feeling- it's a bad place to come into the story, because important things have already happened.  If Chaos doesn't send you the first two chapters, feel free to ask me for them.

Description is one of my nemesis.  It really is.  I am working on it.  Really!   (arg.  I don't even believe myself. )  But seriously, keep hounding me on it, because I just don't do it as much as I should.  This is a first draft, and I can always go back and add it later, but still.

-Chaos:  I don't think Frog meant cutting the section entirely, just that starting the story off where I did might not be the best idea.  What with all the action, there really isn't time to properly introduce the reader to the new world- describe the characters, the setting, the society, the way I could if I began it even a day before where I start.  But I can see how, if I added a chapter or two before what is now chapter 1, the council scene might not be so necessary.  So you could take it both ways, I guess.

[Chaos]

That would be lovely!

Thank you

Just sent them off for you.

Thanks Miranda!  I'm glad you like it and want to read more- that's a good sign.  As for the "lost" feeling- it's a bad place to come into the story, because important things have already happened.  If Chaos doesn't send you the first two chapters, feel free to ask me for them.

Description is one of my nemesis.  It really is.  I am working on it.  Really!   (arg.  I don't even believe myself. )  But seriously, keep hounding me on it, because I just don't do it as much as I should.  This is a first draft, and I can always go back and add it later, but still.

-Chaos:  I don't think Frog meant cutting the section entirely, just that starting the story off where I did might not be the best idea.  What with all the action, there really isn't time to properly introduce the reader to the new world- describe the characters, the setting, the society, the way I could if I began it even a day before where I start.  But I can see how, if I added a chapter or two before what is now chapter 1, the council scene might not be so necessary.  So you could take it both ways, I guess.

Maybe I'm a miserable hack, but I actually think you do too much description. Well, maybe not, but your paragraphs are sure long. Point is, I usually don't mind if descriptions of people are rather sparse, because for the most part it isn't utterly essential. Since your characters aren't human, though, it would be nice to see that being described.

Hmmm, maybe Frog is right. It would depend what those earlier chapters would consist of, because right now, I like that the plot is moving rather quickly. You got me hooked on that front, and I worry that it would lose some impact. On the other hand, if a chapter focused on character development (ie, banter between Meles and Taq), then it would work out really well.

...Actually now that I think about it, I agree with Frog there.

[Frog]

Wow, I haven't even given out my evil critique yet and already the thread is littered with my praises. I shall treasure this. Though, just in general terms, agreeing with Frog is a very dangerous thing to do.

Okay, this submit was pretty short, but here are are a few tips. The first scene still had a lot of the info dump feel of the conference that preceded it, but all I can say there is that I was interested in some of the things they were discussing, I am just hoping you will lean more towards showing us those actions through scenes. I liked the second scene better, but I noticed a few words like 'apologetically,' 'incredulously' and the like where I would rather you show us these feelings through their body language and word choice. I am like you in that I don't like long paragraphs on descriptions, but a few specific details spread throughout would help your narration a lot.

Great Job!

[Hamster]

Hello Ravenstar,

It's been awhile since I've reviewed you stuff, good to be reading it again.

Now, I like the whole story and world that you have so far, but there were a few things that I wanted to point out to you. I kind've felt that it all revolved around Meles and his friends. You were hinting that they could die and they can't wake up, their life force is slipping, etc. But I feel like I don't know them as characters well enough to care for them, they could die, and it wouldn't make me care, I might care about the reaction of Taq to their deaths, so I just wanted to let you know that that's how I feel about them. So some of that foreboding foreshadowing and such I kind've dismissed into my "knowing" section of the story, and not the "caring' portion.

But you still have me hooked on the characters like Taq and Talon that are rounding out more and more as we get to know them, so kudos to you for that. I'm also intrigued as to what happened to Meles, the whole what why how set of questions. I really want to know what the Junction is!

I agree with Chaos that some more physical character description would be nice, but I think you still handle it well, with describing the sleeping three in their pallets.

And I know that this is probably sounding like a broken record now, but your paragraphs are long! I can forgive you most of that if you would break up the text more often. I find it annoying to have to read large blocks of text in small font as well as large blocks of description in the same dialogue. It makes reading it a little tedious, but then I guess it's a small price to pay for being able to read it...

Thanks for the chapter, and keep on writing, can't wait for the next one!

[Chaos]

And I know that this is probably sounding like a broken record now, but your paragraphs are long! I can forgive you most of that if you would break up the text more often. I find it annoying to have to read large blocks of text in small font as well as large blocks of description in the same dialogue. It makes reading it a little tedious, but then I guess it's a small price to pay for being able to read it...

I know when I write, I get nervous when a paragraph is six or seven lines long.

Maybe if you double-spaced the submissions, Ravenstar, that would make it a bit more readable.

Wow, I haven't even given out my evil critique yet and already the thread is littered with my praises. I shall treasure this. Though, just in general terms, agreeing with Frog is a very dangerous thing to do.

Oh, you know, I just do it to get brownie points with you.

[RavenstarRHJF]

I keep forgetting that little spacing rule...   I will do better.  As for the long paragraphs... yeeeaah, I can see where you're coming from, especially in chapter 1.  I think I do get better about that in chapter 2, if only because of dialogue.  I'll keep it in mind!  And hey, thanks for all the great critiques!

[swaindaddy]

Interesting story Raven. I am drawn to the mystery of whatever the Junction is. I missed out on the earlier submission(s), so I am not as up to snuff on the world yet but I like what I read.

Other than what people have already stated I only have a couple bits of input:

I really struggle with Meles. Are you open to changing how it is spelled. Even after your explanation in another post I find myself fixating on it trying different ways to say it. Maybe Meless, Maeles, Mehles, Melehs. Sorry it just bugs me...lol.

I really think you could use more contractions. I know your race of people may be more formal but I got hung up on all the have not, did not, could not - etc. Don't be afraid to through some 't in there!

The plot is great so far - keep it coming!

[Renoard]

As they used to say, "the thot is plickening."

You've moved nicely from intro to trouble to first complication in a very easy flow.

I agree with most of what was said already, except the issue of chapter length.  The storytelling is smooth enough that a mechanical analysis of the number of lines per para seems a little unnecessary, to me but I'm in a minority.  (didn't the last installment from this chapter start an argument between me and someone else. hmm maybe it's just me. )

The cords leading from the patients seems evocative of "the silver cord" motif in eastern philosophy, so it seems rather like foreshadowing an out of body experience or even a trade our body for the ape like aliens out side the wall sort of thing.  Not sure if it would be disappointing if it turned out that way or differently.  Still reserving judgment.

It seems to me that more discussion of Meles' study habits and some concern for the other two victims might give us some insight into the characters, if only second hand.  And that would be helpful in stirring more sympathy.  Although I am sympathetic to Meles more than Taq OR Tolan who seem rather incidental to the story at present.  The twins even more so.

The only formatting issue I have is that I'd rather see all single space or all double space.  Double space between single spaced paras IS distracting and hard on an aged gnome (dyslexic) like me.  I'd like to see Reading Excuses in the subject line, because it would direct them into the right folder in my email client, too. ;P


one clinker which is picayune:
"came into affect, you came and insisted I let you have one for Meles"
This should be effect. 


I have to say, each submission draws me a little more into the story, even if the characters are a bit harder to grasp.  I'm still not quite ready to commit to bright colored reptiloids or amphibians who talk and make magic.  Let's just say I couldn't finish Watership Down or Dinotopia.

Good submission keep em coming.