Timewaster's Guide Archive

Unless you have talking toilets in your stories, that would probably not happen in a bathroom scene.… 

Hmm....Talking Toilets....I may have to add that into one of my books.... it strikes me as very Hitchhiker's Guide the Galaxy

I think the problem here is not the existence of sex in a story line (though a lot of arguments tend to boil down to "yes sex" or "no sex"). The real issue is the level of description and purpose of the text. Having sex occur in your story does not make you a bad writer. It is the level of detail that is the problem with most of these scenes. However, whenever I argue about the graphic nature or level of detail of sex scenes in fiction (or even movies), people get all defensive and start saying ridiculous things like "sex is a normal part of life" or "it is there for characterization".  That is fine. That is why we have the two (or more) people together, that however, does not license the author to do whatever he/she pleases in that scene.

Most of the sex scenes  I've seen have been very superfluous to the plot. Like the author was pounding his brain for an excuse (no matter how small) to put a lurid anatomy lesson into the text, rather than writing a scene that was efficient, to the point, and an effect vessel for the movement of plot.

I have never read one where I said to myself afterward "Wow, that REALLY sheds a lot of new light on the character in a completely different way than I would have ever understood otherwise." Never.

Even Martin's scenes weren't so much realistic or gritty as they were lurid and burdensome to the plot. They slowed the plot to a crawl to show the minute details and movements of a scene where only a hair's breadth of character was revealed. Those scenes last MUCH longer than any of the other 'defining character moments' where people have to make tough decisions that will affect the course of history. Which is why I am s skeptical of the purpose of such scenes when I come across them in books.

It is not the prude in me that is speaking as much as the critical reader. I was taught to think about what I read and make judgments. If it is there for titillation, fun, etc. it is in the wrong genre. If it is there to convey plot and character, it will be efficient in its description and short. Most of what I've seen are the first sort. If there is plot/character it is thrown in as an afterthought. The scenes are stretched out to epic proportions and the level of anatomic detail tend to range from the ridiculous to the truly disgusting.

People may disagree. However, I don't think the disagreements are based on story mechanics.

Brevity is the soul of wit, and indeed, it is ideal for the unfolding of story elements as well.

If a scene runs too long for its purpose, cut it.
If something doesn't move the plot along, cut it.

Writing isn't about living every moment and experience of life verbatim. It is distilling it down to something potent and transcendent.

So, Martin, by trying to be so realistic, has forfeited reality and lost the purpose of the scene.

hmm....what KIND of clinic would that be?

Are we talking medical, psychological, or a writer's clinic?

I agree with Jade. History is very important....So's geography, I think. Maybe that's just because I'm a geography nut, but I think it's problem when an 18-year old who lives in Idaho doesn't know where Seattle is....Or even the Puget Sound.

*Sigh*

THAT is the problem with the geography taught in Public Schools.....Everyone grows up thinking Geography is only memorizing location (states and capitols, etc.) That is less relevant to geography, and really more relevant to social studies.  Location is just the barest skimming off the top of all that Geography has to offer. And no one knows how much they are missing because it is instantly equated with states and capitols.. (boring)

Yet that just reinforces the fact that Public Schooling has too much focus on memorization....

I studied Geography in College (after I got bored with Engineering) (specifically Geographic Information Science) and it is one of the most fascinating sciences out there. Most people don't even realize it is a science because all they did was memorize names....
Lip service is payed to the wonders of the tectonic plates, but the other parts of how our earth functions are almost completely ignored...

But we can't teach useful stuff...no, lets just have them memorize great swaths of data....

Absolving tools?

Are we talking about hot irons, thumb screws, and things of that ilk?

Suddenly Absolvers seem a lot less cuddly! 

I don't believe the killing was the "consensus" that was reached. I'm pretty sure it was the pointless, over abundant, over-described sex that REALLY was the point of most of the bashing.

I did the public school thing. There was only one school in the county that offered Latin.

My schools only offered french and spanish....

Oh, maybe that's why–I thought that was the name of the series. I don't even think we HAVE a local bookstore. I live on the tiniest, most insignificant little speck on the earth.

You have an internet connection, so that is doubtful

heh, sorry. Not my intention.