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Messages - Andrew the Great

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901
Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 17, 2008, 05:41:41 AM »
Vintage, you are officially my hero. I added my email to my profile, so if you want to email it to me I would love it! That's a great reference for all sorts of subjects, and so I would like to speak for everyone and say thank you for saving me a whole lot of time!

902
So it turns out the full file on my desktop is corrupted, so i have to go back to MB1 Chapter 3 (I was in chapter 15 before). I may have missed some in the annotations, so if you come across anything, please point it out to me. I'm particularly worried about MB2, as there's only one.... Anyway, I was wondering, would you guys prefer if I post updates as soon as I find them or should I do like six at a time?  I'll go with whatever you want. Also, if anyone currently has notes, please post them, if not, start taking them. The more information we have, the more accurate we can be in our speculating. As vintage said, with the right info, we can come up with a collective theory much better than our individual ones.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 16, 2008, 10:52:13 PM »
Would you think that Alendi's blood power, if it happened that way, could have been used as sacrifice for Rashek's hemalurgical powers ? I'll bring some quotes once I am home with my notes...

That makes a lot of sense to me. It solves the problem of who is blood sacrifice is (assuming he had to have one...). Also, you have the full logbook compiled? Want to post that somewhere? That would be amazing. I was actually going to do that, but if you already have it, it saves me a lot of work.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 16, 2008, 01:55:47 PM »
Possibly it could be something Alendi never wrote, or something he wrote somewhere else. Or Vin was tired and reading fast and didn't really notice it. I'm not really sure how it works, but I'm inclined to believe it is part of the logbook.

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Brandon Sanderson / The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Reference Thread
« on: May 16, 2008, 03:57:34 AM »
Yes, I know, this should be in the Comprehensive Hemalurgy thread, but I decided that it would be easier to find if it was at the beginning of a thread than twelve pages in. I've only gone through annotations and part of MB1 so far, so feel free to tell me anything and I'll add it.

If you haven't yet, read the comprehensive hemalurgy thread (link provided). It's all speculative, but hey, it may get us somewhere. Plus there are like 4 individual full-bodied theories on how and why hemalurgy works. Each has problems, but its a start.

The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread

The general format I am taking for this is giving an exact reference, then explaining why I think it is significant. I am including anything that may have any possible relation to hemalurgy. If it directly mentions hemalurgy, I don't explain it. Also, this is the early version of my notes as I'm on my laptop and can't get on my desktop to get the full version (my little sister has homework) so it only goes up to MB1 Ch 3. Here we go.

From MB1 and MB2 Annotations:

1.   MB1 Annotations: Chapter 9:

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The mists and Allomancy feeling right to Vin have something to do with the ending, where she draws upon the mists for an extra burst of power. I'm afraid I can't say more until we get to future books.

Possibly hemalurgy related. I don't really know how, I just felt it should be included.

2.   MB1 Annotations, Chapter Twenty-Two part One:

Quote
Feruchemy. Some like the word, others aren't as happy with it. It used to be called Hemalurgy, but I decided that would be a better word for the third magic system in the series. (You'll see it eventually.)

3.   MB1 Annotations, Chapter Thirty-One:

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Finally, we discuss Vin's ability to pierce copperclouds. There's actually something very strange going on here, but I can't tell you what it is until book three. Suffice it to say that there is an in-world, magic-related explanation for why Vin can do this while Kelsier cannot.

Included because Vin's ability to pierce copperclouds may be hemalurgy related.

4.   MB1 Annotations, Chapter Thirty-Eight Part Two

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You were probably expecting Marsh's return--at least, you probably were when you read the chapter where he 'died.' Making Inquisitors via Hemalurgy requires killing other people (see book three for an explanation of the process) so there's a lot of mess involved.

5.   MB1 Annotations, Chapter Thirty-Eight Part Two:

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He never understood how far his infiltration would take him, or what it would end up costing him. The payoff is that he figured out how to kill Inquisitors--they were all built to have a weakness, so that the Lord Ruler would have power over them if he needed it. Pull out the right spike, and they come tumbling down.

Included because the Inquisitors' weakness may be hemalurgy related, and inquisitors certainly are.

6.   MB1 Annotations, Chapter Thirty-Eight Part Two:

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Marsh's plan to kill the Lord Ruler is a good one too. Unfortunately, the Lord Ruler's power doesn't come only from Hemalurgy, but from other things as well. If he'd pulled off the bracelets instead. . . .

By the way, the mists getting pushed away from Vin and Kar here is a clue of some sorts. Inquisitors push away the mists, rather than attracting them, when they use their powers. I'll explain this in book three too.

7.   MB1 Annotations, Chapter Thirty-Eight Part Three

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My one disappointment with this chapter is that I had to end up making it look like I was breaking my own rules. The Allomancy-Feruchemy-Hemalurgy triad is one of the most complex magic systems I've ever devised. The interplay between the three systems, mixed into the mythology of the setting (which involves the mists at a foundational level) makes for some very complicated rules. I try to explain them as simply as possible--simple, basic rules are necessary for most sequences to work.

Yet, the depth of complexity leads to some things that are confusing at first glance. I wasn't planning on having Vin draw upon the mists in this book--I was going to save it for later--but the initial version of this chapter (which had Vin simply grabbing the bracelets off the Lord Ruler's arms with her hands) lacked the proper drama or impact. So, I moved up my timetable, and gave her access to some abilities she wasn't going to get until the next book.

8.   MB1 Annotations, Chapter Thirty-Eight Part Three

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It is a matter of degree of power. Vin, for reasons I'll explain eventually, has access to far more Allomantic power than regular people. The Lord Ruler is the same way, though for different reasons. And so, he can affect metals that are blocked by blood. Vin has to draw upon another, external source of power in order to produce the same effect, but it is possible for her.

Included due to the fact that Vin's extra power may be due to hemalurgy in some way or another.

9.   MB2 Annotations Chapter Twenty-Seven:

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However, there's more behind this, and the cutting worked very well into the interaction of the different magic systems in the book. Particularly Hemalurgy. The pain makes the voice in Zane's head weaker. There will be more on this later.

From the books:

MB1: (Includes ALL references, even ones that are simply possibilities.

1.   (Possible) MB1 Prologue Epigraph

Quote
Sometimes I worry that I’m not the hero everyone thinks I am.
The philosophers assure me that this is the time, that the signs have been met. But I still wonder if they have the wrong man. So many people depend on me. They say I will hold the future of the entire world on my arms.
What would they think if they knew their champion – their Hero of Ages, their savior – doubted himself? Perhaps they wouldn’t be shocked at all. In a way, this is what worries me most. Maybe, in their hearts, they wonder – just as I do.
When they see me, do they see a liar?

Included due to the possibility of the bolded line referring to hemalurgy in some form or another. There has been some discussion about this, but I figured I might as well include it. 

2.   MB1 Chapter 2:

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Kelsier closed his eyes, exhaling softly. It seemed that the Steel Ministry caught up with everyone eventually. Sometimes, Kelsier felt that a skaa Misting’s life wasn’t so much about surviving as it was about picking the right time to die.

Included due to the line about the Steel ministry catching up with everyone eventually. This may be the result of hemalurgical powers. Once again, not sure, but we may as well include it for speculative purposes.

3.   MB 1 Chapter 2:

Quote
The second man was tall with a strong build. As he turned, Kelsier was able to see that a thick metal spike had been pounded tip-first through each of the man’s eyes. With shafts as wide as an eye socket, the nail-like spikes were long enough that their sharp points jutted out about an inch from the back of the man’s clean-shaven skull. The flat spike ends shone like two silvery disks, sticking out of the sockets in front, where the eyes should have been.
A Steel Inquisitor.

Included due to the fact that we are almost certain Inquisitors are hemalurgists, as well as the fact that we see here the spikes in the eyes, which, along with the other nine, are most likely the reason Inquisitors can use hemalurgy.

4.   MB1 Chapter 3:

Quote
"Pray the creature never catches your trail again, lass," Dockson said quietly, sipping his wine.
   Vin paled. "You mean you didn’t kill the Inquisitor?"
   Kelsier shook his head. "I just distracted him for a bit – which was quite dangerous enough, I might add. Don’t worry, many of the rumors about them aren’t true. Now that he’s lost your trail, he won’t be able to find you again."
   "Most likely," Dockson said.
   Vin glanced at the shorter man apprehensively.
   "Most likely," Kelsier agreed. "There are a lot of things we don’t know about the Inquisitors – they don’t seem to follow the normal rules. Those spikes through their eyes, for instance, should kill them. Nothing I’ve learned about Allomancy has ever provided an explanation for how the creatures keep living. If it were only a regular Misting Seeker on your trail, we wouldn’t need to worry. An Inquisitor…well, you’ll want to keep your eyes open. Of course, you already seem pretty good at that."

Included due to the mention of Inquisitors and their spikes. Kelsier mentioned that the spikes should kill them, and as far as he knows, alomancy shouldn’t allow them to survive. Now Kelsier could be wrong, but we have seen no evidence to the contrary. If the ability to survive doesn’t come from Allomancy, it almost certainly comes from Feruchemy or Hemalurgy.  Since Feruchemy seems to be an all-or-nothing power, and we have not seen the Inquisitors do anything with Feruchemy yet, it follows that they are not Feruchemists. Therefore, they must use hemalurgy to survive, though we aren’t sure exactly how.

I'll add the rest of my notes when I get the chance, and will gladly add anything you guys give me. All I ask is that you include exactly where you got the quote from and why you think it is important. It makes my life easier. I now need to do my chemistry. I really ought to learn to not procrastinate...

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: May 16, 2008, 03:41:41 AM »
I'm about halfway through MB1 and already have 4 pages of notes. That's actually the reason I've been frequenting less here.

The iron eyes may or may not have anything to do with inquisitors seeing the lines, I lean toward not. Mainly because of the quote from Brandon''s annotations where he says that any allomancer with access to steel or iron could learn to do this. I think I posted it in the "do Steel inquisitors need to burn metals" thread. I'll look for it.

Here it is. Brandon's MB2 annotations, chapter twelve:

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By the way, you probably remember form book one the way that Inquisitors see. They have such a subtle touch with Steel and Iron, and their lines, that they can see via the trace metals in everyone's bodies and in the objects around them.

The thing is, any Allomancer with access to iron or steel could learn to do this. Some have figured it out, in the past, but in current times, nobody--at least, nobody the heroes know--is aware of this. Except, of course, for Marsh.

And he chose not to share it.

I seem to remember hearing it was a steel-coated bronze earring, or a bronze coated steel one, or something like that.

907
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ashfalls
« on: May 13, 2008, 11:41:35 PM »
What else happens when you've got a lot of ash in the air?

The sun's heat gets blocked, causing the temperature to cool.

Then

Quote
Does anyone in the story ever complain about the heat?  I can't remember.    I only remember them complaining about the cold.

I agree. I only remember hearing about the cold, which would be largely due to the ashmounts. But assuming this is the Lord Ruler's purpose....what good would it do him for it to be cold? I think it's got to be some other affect. Just out of curiosity, can anyone remember it ever raining in the books?

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: May 13, 2008, 03:47:01 AM »
WOT KOD Spoilers, so if you haven't read it and don't want it ruined, skip this one.





Rand gets his hand burnt off. He has no emotional reaction whatsoever. We also see that the Asha'man are all trained to not let their emotions affect them at any time. These men are basically required to be heartless killing machines. And soothing them wouldn't work. Based on rand, though there are likely other methods, men have virtually no emotion while channeling. When they do feel emotion, they promptly rid themselves of it via the flame and the void. Women need to ignore their emotions to channel, not get rid of it. So if the channeler is competent at ignoring emotions, the rioting wouldn't really work. The mistborn would have more of a chance against an Aes Sedai than an Asha'man, but honestly I see them charging and getting ripped to shreds.

The other thing we have not specified, in said fight, do the Mistborn/Channelers understand opposing magic systems? That would make a big difference in how well they fight. For instance, if a mistborn has no idea how channeling works, the whole electrum to see where your head gets chopped off thing doesn't work. If the channeler doesn't know how allomancy works, they are likely dead from metal on their bodies in seconds. It makes a difference. If they both know, however, they can prevent attacks much better.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 11, 2008, 10:13:56 PM »
I seem to recall Brandon saying in his annotations that most of the epigraphs were in order, but not all. This could be one of the exceptions.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: May 10, 2008, 07:00:48 PM »
The oaths haven't changed, but male channelers aren't bound by the oaths, and not all female channelers are Aes Sedai. We just use the term as a generalization. I agree if a mistborn could get an attack off without the channeler knowing, they would win, but I don't see any way they could win in an open battle.

Ookla, that's a good thought, but I don't go for it until I know exactly how electrum works (which may be never, depending on MB3). AvalonDreamer pretty much said it all.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: May 10, 2008, 01:15:56 AM »
How about a knife made of air? How do you avoid something you don't see?

912
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Creator...?
« on: May 09, 2008, 12:15:03 AM »
Ishmael also stated that in ages past the Dragon has fought on the side of the dark lord.
 

That one never seems to go away....it keeps popping up on Dragonmount too. RJ said in response to a question about this, "And you believed Ishamael?" If the Dragon had ever fought on the side of the DO, the DO would have won. He then would have destroyed the wheel, causing a cease to the cycle that has occurred up to this point.

As for why would the Creator force the battle to continue, he wouldn't. We are looking at Deism in its fullest here, the Creator makes the earth and then lets it run itself. In the words of Lews Therin, "The gardener doesn't weep for one blossom." Or something like that. I'm too lazy to look the exact quote up.  Anyway, the creator built the Dragon into his system to save the world so that he (the Creator) wouldn't have to do anything.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 09, 2008, 12:00:37 AM »
By no means did I mean to imply that your points did not have relevance, nor that you couldn't make them. I simply was asking that you include your thoughts on the epigraph as well when we do run off after that shiny new train. Please do discuss the LR's background, I just also want to hear if you think there is something else that could be the clue Brandon was talking about, or if you think my idea is correct/incorrect and why, etc, etc, etc.

Please discuss the Lord Ruler's background to your heart's content. But include the thread topic as well.

I think the journal's location in the altar room has some significance, considering that it is the only religious location we see in MB1. It was found in a religious area, so I think it's probably not a think back on the good times thing. The Hero of Ages reference thing makes more sense to me.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Wheel v. Mist
« on: May 08, 2008, 11:50:09 PM »
With the Atium-Balefire Situation, I believe that the Mistborn would see it coming and where it would strike, but they would not die from being hit by the atium shadow. As for would they be able to see balefire, the answer is a resounding yes. The mistake you made, Comfortable Madness, was to say that balefire could erase any person's effect throughout their life. Actually, it usually only erases a few seconds previous to their death. The exception is when really powerful channelers go for hours (rand could probably get a couple of days). Incidentally, when the balefire is more powerful, it is also bigger around. There is no set size for balefire, it's just that most Aes Sedai are too weak to do more than about arm size.

As for Rhavin and Rand avoiding each other in FoH, darx, that doesn't really count here, as they can feel each other's weaves. They know when and where an attack will happen. Mistborn don't really know what is going to happen until they see the atium shadow, a few seconds after when Rand and Rhavin would feel it.

And besides, as stated before, it doesn't really matter whether mistborn can avoid balefire, all the Aes Sedai/ Asha'man has to do is wrap him/her self in air and the mistborn can't do anything to him/her. Then he/she would start chucking big walls of fire around, and the mistborn would be gone. No chance. If we're talking about stealth, the mistborn has a very good chance, but open battle? No way.

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Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ruin and Preservation
« on: May 08, 2008, 11:34:09 PM »
I also remember there being thousands, but here's another possibility - What if they come in groups of 11? So it's not one huge hemalurgical amplifier, it's tons of smaller ones? I still don't really see the need, or feel that there is sufficient evidence given, but it's a possibility.

Also, darx, I seem to recall that you're referring to Chaos' post, not Coma's.

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