Author Topic: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq  (Read 6047 times)

Fellfrosch

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Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« on: February 03, 2006, 12:37:05 PM »
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060202/SCANNERS/60202001

A Turkish movie about evil American soldiers, which begins with a real incident and escalates into paranoid fantasy (American soldiers murdering children and harvesting organs, for example).

The article is very balanced and interesting, I thought, sidestepping the question of the movie's "rightness" and talking instead about its roots in, and possible effect on, international tension. The most intriguing line is when he hypothesizes that America is set to become the world's next media villain, the way the Soviet Union was generically evil in decades of movies.
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2006, 12:50:20 PM »
I think that observation is a bit late. US is quickly becoming the primary media villain in outlets other than American sources. Good or bad, that's been my observation. There's a lot of international disgruntlement with the US.

Entsuropi

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 05:50:32 PM »
I think a lot of the disgruntlement was likely to happen anyway. Europe is anti-american in part because it is viewed as a haven of mass-produced tat. McDonalds being the ultimate example - we hate it, but it still does well.

Tangent time! During the cold war everyone kept close to America - outside aggressors prompting unity and solidarity. But now there is no outside threat (other than terrorism, which doesn't really cut the mustard for this purpose, since it's so hard to solve). So countries are losing reason to stay close to America, don't feel the need to maintain good relations because there is no Soviet Russia looming on the horizon.

Britain was widely despised in Europe for the longest time. We were the outsiders (still are), the distant northerners who kept pushing people over and throwing our weight around. Contemplate the following quote:
Quote
That ambitious and greedy nation [Britain] has once more proclaimed to the world that she recognizes no law but that of aggrandizement of her own trade, achieved by her global despotism on the high seas; our patience is spent, our forbearance is exhausted; we must now turn our gaze to the dignity of our throne ... we must declare war on the King of England and on the English Nation.

That's taken straight from my copy of 'The Trafalgar Companion'. It's the Spanish declaration of war on the UK, from the Napoleonic wars, and one of my favourite, though hugely lengthy, quotes of all time. It's just so grandious and, for a Brit, amusing. Admittedly we British had a habit of attacking and capturing every spanish merchant ship we saw on the off chance it was a treasure galleon*, but still. However, when the German Republic started arming up, and the Central Powers formed their alliance, Britain and France started working together like old pals. They are showing an exhibition of the dresses worn by the then-Queen when she went with the Royal Family to Paris to help concrete the alliance.

I'm sure that if aliens from Zog were to invade and take over Africa, America's foreign relations would improve overnight... but for the moment nobody sees a 'need' for an American superpower, and thus isn't much interested in keeping good relations. I guess. :P

* Royal Navy officers were a greedy lot.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2006, 06:07:20 PM by Charlie82 »
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2006, 05:59:25 PM »
That is a very insightful point, and I think it's dead on. Sure, America's dones some very stupid stuff, but that's not new--people hate us now because there's no other bad guy.

It reminds me of a quote in Volume 1 of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: "They called me an enemy of the state, but they failed to realize that sometimes it's very good for the state to  have an enemy."
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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2006, 11:20:45 AM »
thank you for you exceptionally biased drive-by review contribution... please do us all a favor and read the FAQ http://www.timewastersguide.com/boards/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1080380396

a few facts wouldnt hurt either.

as for your number 3

No, he shouldnt. Billy Zane owes no one an apology or an explanation. He is an actor, not a member of the military or government and free to make the choices he wants. You seem to want to compell him to an apology, which is patently ridiculous. Im disgusted with forced apologies, the lack of sincerity is more damaging than the actual incident in the first place. If you want to vilify him and start a boycott go right ahead, but if you accomplish your goal, your just going to get an insincere statement approved by his publicist thats read to the world in a pointless monotone. You know what would just be better, excercising your judgement and just not seeing his movies. That would be better than some sort of "how dare he" crusade. Im tired of people telling other people how to act or what choices to make in the name of America. I may disagree with his choices, but he has every right to make them. Just because he made them doesnt make him a bad human being.  Due to the way films are made, its quite possible that much of the anti american sentiment was added by omission after the film was made. If the events of this week are any evidence they people over there dont really need any reason to hate us. They just do.

Im curious though where you saw the film?


« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 11:38:16 AM by ElJeffe »
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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2006, 12:09:16 PM »
-Caveat: Skar will probably disagree with me on a few things in this, but hey, he's had more than 1 post, plus he's been deployed to the middle east and east asia.
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Skar

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2006, 12:15:16 PM »
I feel liberated all of a sudden.

Number one reason I feel liberated:  I don't disagree with anything Jeff said in that post.

Number two reason:  Were just about anyone I know from here to have made the points LCD ranted about, they would have been well reasoned and I would have felt compelled to respond.  But LCD's list was so knee-jerk, so dogmatic, and so totally unsupportedwith anything LIKE reason, logic, or evidence that I feel absolutely no need to dignify it with a response.  

I would, in fact have moved on to other threads had not Jeffe reminded me that I normally pipe up on such topics.

Sigh. :D
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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2006, 12:16:59 PM »
/me holds his finger over the "lock" button, thanks to our flamer troll.

Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2006, 12:18:25 PM »
blink
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Spriggan

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2006, 12:19:31 PM »
*Spriggan drops his drawers to taunt SE into locking the thread
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2006, 12:20:51 PM »
You keep wanting to take your clothes off these days sprig,... just what is in that pipe of yours?
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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2006, 12:25:22 PM »
it's just so sexy!

Spriggan

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2006, 12:27:14 PM »
Yet another successful Sexy Party here at TWG!!
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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2006, 12:27:25 PM »
ick
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Re: Valley of the Wolves: Iraq
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2006, 12:30:06 PM »
We're too sexy for jeffe, too sexy for jeffe, so sexy he's passé!