Timewaster's Guide Archive

Even the Forsaken (excepting Ishamael) are in it for the immortality and power.  Their background information and POV scenes make it quite clear that they expect the DO to drastically change the world and make them the top rulers of the new world.  They do not expect him to literally destroy the world, them included.  There are also a number of Black Ajah POV scenes that clearly reveal the motives of one or more BA members to be a desire for personal power and advantage.  Again, they expect to be rewarded for their service.  I do not recall any evidence anywhere in the entire series of a servant of the Dark One other than Ishamael believing that the DO will kill that person as collateral damage in the event of his victory, that the DO won't care about this and will not resurrect that person, that this might happen within that person's lifetime, and that this is ok.

Just for one example off the top of my head, read what Moghedian thinks when she's brought out of the vacuole.  She's panicked that the DO might have already won and she'd be forced to work up from the bottom in a world where the other Forsaken already rule everything.  If she thought the DO's victory would mean the actual end of the world, as excessive balefire might cause, such a worry would never have arisen.

I won't argue the spelling errors, there are certainly a number of those, but the only continuity error I recall (which group Sulin is with) has been explicitly stated as not an error.  I'm guessing she will be shown taking an Asha'man-aided trip from Perrin to Rand in ToM, and we already know that Rand's timeline has advanced a lot more than Perrin's in TGS.

So, could you list the continuity errors you're complaining about?

O.K., been busy, but finished Lois McMaster Bujold's first two novels, conveniently packaged in one book called Cordelia's Honor and I give it a big neh.

Those are a pair of prequels that serve mainly as extra backstory and are far from her best work.  Try Warrior's Apprentice or the omnibus edition Young Miles before you give up on her.  If you get through that and still don't like it I'll be surprised but satisfied that your opinion is based on a truly representative sample, which Cordelia's Honor is not.

As for other stuff, I'll repeat my recommendation of Elizabeth Moon's The Deed of Paksenarrion trilogy.  Partly because I want to see your opinion of that non-gratuitous torture scene (it's late in the third book), but mainly because I've read it and I consider it a fair bit better than both Cordelia's Honor (though about on par with the rest of the Miles series, with a very different style) and Assassin's Quest, which I have also read.

And Verin wasn't a double agent from the beginning.  She states that the hard-core oaths were a bit much, and it made her reconsider her previous alignment.

Yes, she was a double agent from the beginning.  She states explicitly that she found herself in the position of choosing between joining them or revealing that she had never wanted to join them.  Her warder was a darkfriend who changed his mind, but Verin was an investigator who got too deep to back out.

I'll find the exact quote for you when I get home if you want.

Personally, I think the four bits of info I listed in my last post, particularly the 70 year plan, were enough foreshadowing of her reveal.  It was obvious to me that she'd been planning something extremely major that the Black Ajah would not approve of for a long time.  She had also shown evidence of not being bound by the First Oath but still had the Ageless face caused by the Oath Rod, and she knew about a highly secret Black Ajah activity 20 years past.  That strongly hinted that she was black, but her secret plan, the fact that she described said activity internally to herself as "vile", and the degree and nature of her cooperation with Rand all hinted at her opposing the Dark One.

No, I remember it being explicitly stated somewhere that Mordeth tried to take over Fain but ended up merging due to what the Dark One did to him, and all of Fain's POV scenes back that up.  I think Moiraine says something about it after interrogating him in EotW or TGH.

My opinions:
Egwene was a crowning masterpiece of awesome.  Her composure and tactics while captive were excellent, and her actions during the Seanchan attack were an all too rare example of someone actually being competent and intelligent for once.  The way she got around the forkroot was great, and I was very happy to see someone actually put that giant stockpile of *greal in the Tower to use.  Seriously, the White Tower has a very bad habit of acquiring objects of the power and letting them collect dust.  The acquiring part is fine, but they really need to stop the dust collecting part soon.  I particularly liked the scene where one of the Aes Sedai hears about a hard point of resistance forming in the novices' quarters, of all places, and the dawning realization that follows.  The discussion among the Ajah heads where one of them mentions, without even bothering to present evidence, that Egwene will not be anyone's puppet and will be a strong Amyrlin was also very nice.

Verin's reveal was very well done, and the way she circumvented her Oath was a perfect example of Aes Sedai word manipulation, taking wording apparently meant for emphasis and following it literally to find a loophole.  It's unfortunate that the Black Ajah Hunters got so thoroughly upstaged by Verin, but oh well.  Maybe they'll turn up later with something to make that arc worthwhile.  I'd been hoping for someone to find, break, and interrogate Alviarin, with that being the big breakthrough leading to the purge, but Verin's research works quite well too and clears up a lot of mystery and speculation about her.

Most of Rand's arc was a bit depressing to read, but it had a great payoff at the end.  I think he's finally achieved the reintegration that Semirhage mentioned when she was captured, and it will be interesting to see exactly what that means.  Does he have full access to Lews Therin's knowledge now?  Regardless, I think he's going to be a much better person from now on, and he'll probably have a lot easier time getting along with everyone else.  I'm expecting a lot fewer ultimatums and unexplained "just do it" orders from him in the remaining two books.

Rand's plan for taking out Graendal was a huge surprise and a big shock, but perfectly logical.  I was impressed.

I'm really looking forward to Seanchan arrogance getting punctured in ToM.  Somewhere along the line Rand is going to "bind the Nine Moons to serve him", and I imagine it will be great fun reading Tuon's reaction to that happening instead of the corrupted Seanchan prophecy of Rand kneeling to the Crystal Throne.  I expect Seanchan society will be quite shaken up by the event.  It's probably too much to hope for that their stance on damane might change, but I'll keep hoping for it anyway.  With a ta'veren as strong as Rand around, you never know.

She should have then negotiated w/ the Red from that position.

That would imply that the Reds were separate from the rest of the Tower and had their own authority.  Not at all an idea Egwene would want to suggest.

Egwene instead without negotiations grabbed a political prisoner,

Specifically a prisoner of Elaida, imprisoned for standing up to her.

one many in the Red will view as a traitor,

Traitor?  Why?  The Red Ajah is in disgrace, so much so that the other Ajah heads did not include them in their plans and no Red Sitters were present for Egwene's raising.  They are in disgrace specifically because of Elaida and what she did as Amyrlin.  Silviana is a Red who stood up to Elaida and spoke out against her.  Considering how thoroughly Elaida messed up as Amyrlin, that is exactly the kind of person the Reds would want representing them in the public eye - someone they can point to and say "see, we rejected Elaida too!"

and raised her to a high position.  I think many in the Red will see this as weakness on Egwenes part.

Weakness?  In her?  Every Aes Sedai in both the Tower and Rebel camps has had abundant evidence that Egwene is anything but weak.  Her raising of Silviana to Keeper was explicitly stated as a gesture of reconciliation and unity, implying that she would not view the Reds as a separate and disgraced entity from the rest of the Tower despite their recent history.  Egwene could have disbanded the Red Ajah entirely, just like Elaida did the Blue, and she probably would have gotten away with it.  All the Reds know this.  Relief and gratitude that she didn't and that they're not in disgrace any more is likely to overwhelm all other reactions.

The Blue Ajah would just have to be so....upset. They had to apologize because they were unlawfully kicked out.

I saw that as more of a formal gesture to say "we're not the victorious conquering side, we're part of the united White Tower."  It was not an apology for opposing Elaida or for getting kicked out, it was an apology for breaking the Tower.  Regardless of what Elaida did, there were ways to react to it that would not have publicly split the Tower, and Egwene is just driving home that the split is over and she will not favor either side over the other.

I'm really hoping that there is more fracture and disunity in the next book.

I can suspend disbelief for many things, but I can't suspend disbelief when it comes to people. People don't change.

People and their behavior don't change, no, but they are also very complicated, and I think you're missing some important factors that would affect them this time.

Something along the lines of "And the one who was blinded shall see again, standing on his grave.""

Looks like we may not have to expect to see Rand lose his eyes ... it sure sounds like that might be metaphorical, and just came to pass. Other thoughts?

I don't remember the exact wording, but I do remember specifically noting that it was phrased as if Rand were already blind and regained his sight right after standing on his grave.  The only way this makes any sense is if the blindness is metaphorical, referring to him not understanding the true nature of strength and what kind of character he really needs to be.  This makes even more sense when you consider that it is, just like all the Prophecies of the Dragon, a translation from the Old Tongue, which is well known for being complex and having multiple meanings for words.