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Messages - RavenstarRHJF

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Reading Excuses / Re: 3-30-09 Watashi no Aijin Part One
« on: March 31, 2009, 10:54:53 PM »
Thanks for sending me your submission!

Overall- I'm not getting a very clear idea of the setting.  The closest I can come is Shangri-La, maybe?  That would explain the presence of large amounts of snow, sharp rocks, and narrow passes on the outside, but apparent warmth inside. 

The MC is a vague character.  You don't tell us anything about him at all, which is confusing.  The other characters introduced are clearly animalistic in form and perhaps, nature, but- just because you don't say anything about him/her- I'm picturing the MC as a human child, and thinking that maybe he doesn't fit in where-ever-it-is because of that difference.

There are several spelling and grammar errors that made me do a double take to figure out what you were trying to say.  Not too much- the story was definitely readable- but it broke the flow of the narrative.  Maybe have someone proof read before submitting... ;)

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... I could even see my dark tongue dart out of my mouth to lick my lips eagerly.
Given the previous sentences, I don't think this is the word you want.  Eagerly implies happy anticipation, and I think you were trying for dread here instead.

I'm increasingly puzzled as to why they didn't equip the travelers better- at least the guide, since it is meant to return.  No shoes?  No proper garments against the cold?  It doesn't seem like they meant for him to get very far... which would make banishment more a death sentence than an exile.   :'(
Also, I think a small cart- small enough to be pulled by a child and an it- would be consumed long before the MC woke up if he really was out for two weeks.

Ok, all those criticisms out of the way, I'm free to tell you how much I enjoyed reading it!  You pulled us in right from the beginning, and I especially enjoyed the way you portrayed waking up in a snowdrift and all that entails.  I haven't read many stories where characters got caught in landslides (or were otherwise buried in snow), so this was new for me.  (I can't help but wonder, though... If he knew about being buried in snow, and air pockets, and all that, how is it he didn't know to provide himself with better clothing and some shoes?!... ok, sorry, rant over)

Looking forward to the next installment!

317
Writing Group / Re: Exposition: What is the best way to handle it?
« on: March 31, 2009, 02:58:29 AM »
Quote from: Reaves on March 30, 2009, 11:53:22 PM
BTW, info dumping was mentioned in this weeks podcast.  http://www.writingexcuses.com/

So it was!  I just listened to it... to me, being an amateur writer just starting out and having just joined her first writing group, it was... depressing.

Quote from: ryos on March 30, 2009, 02:17:53 AM
Track down a copy of How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy by Orson Scott Card. You should be able to get it from your local library. I read it nearly ten years ago, but I still remember that it has an excellent section on handling exposition. Using Amazon's "Look Inside" feature, it looks like the section you want is Chapter 4.
I will pick up a copy of that in the near future, thanks!  I like that it's just over $10...

Quote from: Reaves on March 30, 2009, 01:38:30 AM
Never. Its more fun to keep the readers guessing as long as possible   ;D
I'm actually not a fan of this.  It's pretty much a major turn-off for me in a book.  Do you have to explain everything right away?  No, of course not, BUT, especially in SF and Fantasy, there are certain things about worlds that are crucial to the plot which need explanation.  You do too much of the above, and to me it feels like the author needed something to happen in a certain way and *poof!* there it is, with no foreshadowing and no "method behind the madness" if you will.  Now, in first drafts it probably doesn't matter so much, because you can fix it in revision, but still.

318
Reading Excuses / Re: Email List + Submission Dates
« on: March 30, 2009, 10:09:29 PM »
Yeah, I didn't get maxonenis's submission either.  Could just be because we're fairly new here, and he didn't add our emails to his current mailing list...

319
Reading Excuses / Re: 3-23-09 The Junction, Ch. 1-a by Ravenstar
« on: March 30, 2009, 01:26:19 AM »
Ah.  Ok!

320
Writing Group / Exposition: What is the best way to handle it?
« on: March 30, 2009, 01:08:11 AM »
So we all know the standby of "show, don't tell," and most authors try to convey as much as possible through characterization and dialogue.  But sometimes, especially in SF and Fantasy, there's just too much information critical to the reader's understanding of the world to go those routes.  Maybe it would just take too long to have the characters talk about it, or maybe it would be out of character for them to talk about things in their world that they would have grown up knowing.

So my question is: At what point does an info dump become acceptable, and what is the best way to insert it in the main narrative?

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Reading Excuses / Re: 3-23-09 The Junction, Ch. 1-a by Ravenstar
« on: March 30, 2009, 12:55:55 AM »
Thanks, Reaves, I'm glad you like it so far!

Yes, there is a bunch of exposition in the first chapter, which I'm revising as we speak. ;)  That's a great suggestion about the secondary "worldbuilding" document you've got there! 

Quote from: Reaves on March 30, 2009, 12:30:09 AM
It seems a bit like you started writing and then realized you needed to give this guy some background and just started putting it in. I'm not sure if that's what you did, but that was my first impression.
As a matter of fact, that's just about EXACTLY what I did.  Y'all are getting the very first draft of this story- although in subsequent chapters, it'll probably be the second or third revisions based on what you guys say to me in the mean time!

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What is the lifespan of this lizard society like? I get that these three are analogous to human teenagers, but how many actual years have they lived?
You shall find out.  Probably in my next submission. :)

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But today he found himself daydreaming about a new and improved Meles.  One who was only too willing to be led by his much more experienced master. 
GREAT characterization! and kinda funny too...
Thank you!

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About halfway through, you really grabbed my interest. This chapter felt waay too short for my tastes, LOL!

I will say this. I liked reading about Taq more than your other three characters. I just really loved his internal thoughts and emotions. He seemed like a fully fledged character. Who knows, I haven't had much time with your other three, so maybe they will grow on me.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, I've been saying "your other three" a lot. That's because I don't know their lizard names :(  I know, it would seem like Meles and Kreel and that other one would be easy enough to remember, but I can't :(  They are lizards, and so their names should sound like something a lizard would have, but remember, you are writing for a HUMAN audience. Sometimes it can get pretty ridiculous with names and titles and whatnot. It hasn't gotten anywhere near that point in your manuscript yet, but I just thought I would say something now.
I think my current revision will help with that, since I'm taking more time to actually introduce them to the reader, instead of just throwing you guys into the action right off the bat.

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Anyway, I really liked what you have here and I think it has a lot of potential. It feels like you are writing for a younger (read middle school or lower) audience, but I am still enjoying it. I'm looking forward to seeing some great stuff from you!
Could you elaborate on that?  My story is not "epic" by any means, and is not intended to be- but is rather supposed to be an enjoyable read for someone who just wants to relax for a bit.  Is that what you mean?  Or is it something else about my style that makes it feel "young?"

322
Reading Excuses / Re: Email List + Submission Dates
« on: March 27, 2009, 07:44:16 PM »
I'd say "me, too," but honestly I'm just going to be too busy this weekend to finish chapter 2.  So I'm gonna wait another week if that's ok. :)

323
Books / Re: Best book you've ever read...
« on: March 25, 2009, 01:51:16 PM »
I like L'Engle because she combines a spiritual outlook with science in so many of her books.  It's not quite New Age, but it's also not run of the mill "Christian" and that's something I really like about her work.  I do remember trying to read "The Young Unicorns" and not even finishing it for lack of interest, though.  To each his own, I guess!

324
Reading Excuses / Re: 2 - 9 - 09 - jwdenzel - The Gates of Heaven: Ch. 2 - Ch. 3
« on: March 25, 2009, 04:38:34 AM »
Wow.  Lots happens in these two chapters!

You know, I can't help thinking that maybe (just maybe) Aric was chosen BECAUSE of his unquestioning nature... I know you've said he's a great warrior, but at the moment his personality feels more like that of a follower than a leader, whereas the admiral is more one who's risen to leadership positions because of his ability to think and plan for himself.  Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out.

I think that Laudney picked a strange time to broach his suspicions about their real purpose on this journey.  After all, Aric's in a very strong position right now- they've just sighted land, and the mood is one of celebration and victory instead of disillusionment.  It would make more sense to try to convert Aric to his point of view gradually, starting about halfway through the journey, when all the excitement of starting out has worn off.  Could probably add some depth to Aric's character too, what with soul-searching and all...

I really liked your description of their passing through the invisible boundary surrounding the islands.  But it does suggest that whateveritis is set to examine travelers, which makes it weird that the island folk you introduce in chapters 4 and 5 don't go to sea... but maybe the the floating islanders do?

You were right in that a reader jumping in at chapter 4 wouldn't be completely lost, but having what came before does give it a clearer sense of purpose.

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Reading Excuses / Re: 1 - 19 - 09 - jwdenzel - The Gates of Heaven: Prologue - Ch. 1
« on: March 25, 2009, 04:11:58 AM »
Better late than never, right?  ;)  Here goes...

I assume you sent me the unrevised version of the prologue and Ch. 1, and everyone else has pretty much already covered the issue with holding the reader's interest... but have you thought about holding the interest of the reader by simply addressing us more?  For example, your narrator is an Archmage.  Perhaps he's training us, the audience, using the dream as a catalyst.  That way, there's some purpose behind mentioning all those features of the land around him, and the journey into space.  Show us the comet with more emphasis (I remember reading that part and not really taking much note of it, but if it's important we shouldn't be allowed to simply skip over it), and use IT to begin your story.  Anyway, just a thought, and if you've already got a revision you're happy with, feel free to ignore!

On another note, you describe things very well.  I could clearly picture the scenes in my mind as I read, and not every author can do that for me.

A minor point of consistency... When Aric is meditating in the cabin, we're given the impression that it's dark: there's only one lamp lit, and when he opens his eyes, you say they're already adjusted to the dark.  But on the next page, when he's dressing for the "audience", he mentions light coming in through the large windows.  Were they covered with curtains before?  And if so, when were they pulled back?  Or was it night while he was meditating and the sun is just now rising (seems unlikely, considering the amount of coordination involved to get everyone of importance to the flag ship at the same time)?

Also it strikes me as odd that Aric, being the so very important Ambassador, and speaker for the God-King, would stoop to putting on his own armor.  If there is some warrior rhetoric or ideal behind that, or he simply has too much reverence for a gift from his king to let inferior persons touch it, you should let us know.

Overall, good read!  Especially when we get to Aric's POV.

326
Reading Excuses / Re: 3-23-09 The Junction, Ch. 1-a by Ravenstar
« on: March 25, 2009, 03:01:39 AM »
Thank you jwdenzel! Can I call you J? ;D

I'm going to toss that introductory section at the beginning.  I put it in originally because I was starting the story in a different place, and some explanation was required.  Since I'm not doing that anymore, away it goes.

I'm in the process of revising all of my expository sections.  I'm going to try and combine setting/character descriptions with the exposition so that it both flows better and is more interesting than a plain info dump.  We'll see how successful I am next time I submit! ;)

About Taq- I was trying to go for frazzled, yet proud (of Meles), but apparently I was too vague.  I'll work on that.

327
Reading Excuses / Re: 3-23-09 Aspirations Miranda 5-6
« on: March 24, 2009, 04:44:27 AM »
Quote from: Necroben on March 24, 2009, 04:11:11 AM
I try to make every chapter into a mini story of its own...
Well that answers one of my questions!

I think one of the most effective ways of showing continuing action (day to day activities as opposed to plot-relevant action) is to focus more on how the characters interact with each other than on what they are actually doing.  An argument with Miranda's mother about the renovation of her bedroom:
(a) shows that the room is being renovated,
(b) tells us that Miranda has a negative attitude about this,
(c) tells us that she feels like a stranger in her own home now,
(d) allows Miranda to storm off to change for her "date", grumbling all the while, and
(e) gives her an excuse to stay in the guest bedroom until he arrives to pick her up.

And yes, I know I need to work on this myself :-\ :P

I, too, was kinda surprised that she let herself be drugged so easily.  I mean, I know she's a vampire and all, but she's had hints all night that he's a control freak who sees people as objects instead of fellow human beings.  Considering she's there to protect him, albeit reluctantly, I'd think she'd be more on her guard- at the very least initially refusing the drink because she's "afraid it will soften her reflexes."

Also, it's not precisely clear in chapter six if he's also undressed her in addition to tying her up.
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...his hand trailing along my bare shoulders...
  You said her dress was sleeveless before, but covered her neck and bosom, so is the dress a mock-turtleneck haltar style, or... I'm just saying that Desmond seems the type of man who would undress a beautiful, unconscious girl if he was reasonably certain of his power over her, so if he didn't we need to know that, because it's out of character for him and could nicely play up that little bit about him wanting her to turn him into a vampire.  :P

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Reading Excuses / Re: 3-23-09 Reaves Crystalheart Chapter 13
« on: March 24, 2009, 04:15:35 AM »
I guess it's a good thing I came in on this chapter instead of a different one, since you partially describe what a Crystalheart IS and how they become that way. :)

First thing I noticed when I started reading:  Aermyst, Aermyst, Aermyst.  You kept repeating his name when there was really no reason to, since he's the only one in the scene.  I mean, really.  Three times in seven sentences?

Second thing: He seems to value the loss of his crystalheart more than the loss of his soul.  Is that because the one seems to have more immediate affect than the other?  We see him wondering about what would happen if he died, but then he goes on to (briefly) contemplate suicide a few minutes later.  Why?

Third: This entire first section seems more disjointed than it has to be.  When you said
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Aermyst's chest began paining him more often
and again with
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Aermyst spent the days poring over rotting texts...
I wasn't sure at first if he was still reminiscing on the bridge, or if we had jumped scenes.

Fourth: I think you captured the relationship between the three roommates perfectly: kidding around, but basically tolerating each other, and willing to take in a new member.  This tells me that they haven't seen a lot of betrayal in their lives, which makes their reaction to Trelawney's inexplicable unhelpfulness just right.  Great job!

Now you've got me wondering if she really wants to screw him over, or if she knows that these are the classes he'll need to help Aermyst find his crystalheart...

Don't hesitate to send me the first 12 chapters if you feel like it, though I can't promise to read them all at once!

329
Reading Excuses / Re: 3-23-09 The Junction, Ch. 1-a by Ravenstar
« on: March 24, 2009, 03:45:29 AM »
Thank you for reading!

Quote from: Necroben on March 24, 2009, 12:26:29 AM
…He said now.
Who said?  I figured it out after re-reading it, but it might help to go ahead and identify who’s saying what when you have more than two people.
Fixed.  ;)



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Each T’Awn had…
Alright, so now I know what they are, a little.  Why are the wearing clothes?  Are they lizards or reptilian or something totally different?
Reptilian, yes.  Scaly, bipedal, with tails, and more talons than fingernails, though they try to keep them trimmed down.  As for the clothing, same reason we do: warmth and status.  They're not completely cold blooded, but they do get cold very, very quickly.

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… he looked more than usually distracted this morning…
This phrasing doesn’t really work for me.
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A couple of years ago that would have been an unthinkable arrangement, but then, a couple years ago…
Here you kinda say the same thing twice and it might not be necessary.  You may want to thing about breaking up this sentence as well; it just seems too long.
Let the rephrasing begin!

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… and yet they were deafened.
You might want to be careful of passive sentences.
Sigh. I hear that all the time, but it still creeps in every now and then. :P

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Over all I liked it, but it did have a rather slow pace.  It felt like there was a little too much separation between the reader and conflict.  Things were happening but I wasn’t invested enough to care just yet.  It seems you’ve put a lot of effort into your world building, and as a reader I’m interested, but it is starting to get confusing.  Levels and the machinations in school and the purpose of the school, it’s just a little too much this early I think.  But, you have a great start here and I’m really interested in seeing were it goes.  Good job!

And you can send me the other half if you want. ;)
Maybe the second half will help some of what you're talking about.  Let me know!


Quote from: ryos on March 24, 2009, 02:51:55 AM
... none of the characters are human...
How do you know? ;)

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I like Meles as a character. We haven't seen much of him, but I feel like a know him. The twins are somewhat more forgettable, despite the fact that one of them has a viewpoint in this chapter.
Yeah the twins are more foils for Meles than anything else.  They keep him real and relatable, instead of just the brainiac with all the answers.  I wanted to tell the beginning of this from their viewpoint, because they don't treat him as if he's special, and they don't think he will succeed.

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The italicized intro didn't work for me... The thing is, I don't think you need it; the rest of the chapter works better without it. It could conceivably be cleaned up, expanded, and placed in its own prologue, but if it were me I'd just cut it (sprinkling a bit more inline exposition on the rest, of course).
I hadn't really thought about that.  This started out as a submission for a writing contest on another forum, but there I didn't start with Meles' story, so some explanation of what had happened was required to make that work.  I think you're probably right about this, and I'll end up tossing it.

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The paragraph starting:
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Each T’Awn had a particular and unique way of accessing what they called ‘the hidden power,’ ...

Practically jumped up and down, waving its arms and shouting, "Hey, look at me, I'm exposition!" I'm exaggerating, of course, but I think it could use a good smoothing.
Arg!  I thought I hid it better than that!

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The ending to the first section felt rushed to me. Once Meles calls on his power, I wanted to see what was going on, but it was over practically before it started. I felt you could have slowed down a bit - just a bit - and injected more detail about what each character was doing and what happened when they were "lost".

You pointed out that the twins didn't really know what was going on. How did they know what their part was in the working? How did their not knowing what to do contribute to their demise?
I see your points.

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I personally am not a fan of giving unusual names to ordinary things.
But that's part of the fun! :D ;) Yeah, I see what you mean.  You don't seem to have a problem with Lik and Qwerlik in place of teacher and Headmaster, though.  Or do you?

Thanks for all the great feedback!

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Reading Excuses / Re: 3 - 23 - 09 - jwdenzel - The Gates of Heaven: Ch. 4 - Ch. 5
« on: March 23, 2009, 07:06:39 PM »
Ok, overall impressions first.  From the synopsis you provided in the email, I couldn't help but think this story was influenced by another work of epic fantasy I've read recently.  But that's not necessarily a bad thing; it depends on where you take it from there. (Also, I haven't been privileged to read the previous chapters, so I don't really know for certain.  If you'd like to send them to me, I'd love to read them.  :) )

I actually like the "Storyteller" style at the beginning, but I think Max is right in that it's too... drawn out.  If you could condense it a bit; still provide all the information, but take out some of the unnecessary phrases that are simply repeating what you've already said.  Like here:

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But in the end, all we can do is pray their
souls to the Garden so that we will one day meet them again.
Praise them for their contribution to this story and then move
on. To dwell longer upon it would discredit them. Acknowledge.
Pray. Move forward. Always forward; always upward.

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Not everyone from the King's fleet was lost that night,
however. No, indeed not. For that would make for quite a brief
tale, and I'm certain neither you nor I would be witnessing this
chronicle if that had come to pass.
This and following seems like an awkward shift in the narrative.  Previously, the reader was there with the narrator, seeing everything that happened.  Why, then, would the narrator stop asking him to "look at what happened" and shift to "let me tell you what happened?"  Either find a way to say the same thing in the same style as before, or let us know that we're now moving away from the scene we just saw and back to our respective hearths.

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...benevolent goddess moons.
Wouldn't it be better to say "benevelont moon goddesses?" Or are they not actually goddesses, just viewed as such?

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... the tide brought carried the sword...
Just thought I'd bring this to your attention.  ;)

Since we move to a different POV in chapter 5, I wouldn't start out with the omniscient there.  I'd find some way to transition at the end of 4 so you can start out fresh with Nola.  I disagree, btw, with Maxonennis about the "weather report" styling there.  I thought the wind made for a good transition, sort of like in a movie when the camera zooms in from a wide shot to focus on a particular character.

 There's no real feel for how much time has actually passed between the storm, the shipwrecks, and when the sword actually made it to the beach.  Even though I read the part where it described the sword waiting at the bottom of the ocean and then floating on the tide, I was still inclined to automatically assume Nola was on the beach the day after the storm hit.  Perhaps you could include some info on what he was doing during the intervening time?  And some description on what he looks like?

I'd also think that there would have been other scavengers among the wreckage considering the amount of time that has passed.  It would be unlikely that Nola was the only one to notice what was going on and be curious, and if so, it's highly unlikely he would have been the first to find either the cup or the sword.

Pretty good concept (as far as I know what it is) you've got going on here!  I look forward to more!

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