Author Topic: The Sarah Palin VP announcement  (Read 22755 times)

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #75 on: September 13, 2008, 02:47:06 AM »
I agree. (Just watched the clip.) She didn't sound like any kind of zealot. The desire to grant citizens of every country the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is a God-given desire? Even if I did not agree with that, I don't imagine it would scare me.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 02:49:54 AM by Ookla The Mok »
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CthulhuKefka

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #76 on: September 13, 2008, 03:13:16 AM »

EDIT

Found another part of that interview, and this one REALLY scares me. Like I've said before, I have NOTHING against religion, but zealots like this terrify me.

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5782873
what exactly scared you? She believes there is a God who has a plan for this world. That's about what I got from the interview...nothing frightening.


She thinks that our people are fighting in Iraq on a mission from God. That's a pretty good definition of a holy war. THAT is what scares me. So basically, according to her, we're fighting against the Jihadist Holy War with our own Holy War. Good lord, it's like the battle of the "My God is the right God, yours is the heathen God" all over again.

And she scares me because religion should be separate from politics. If she thinks the Iraq War is a mission from God, what happens if McCain kicks it, she becomes president, then looks at another country to invade because she thinks it is a mission from God.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 03:32:28 AM by CthulhuKefka »

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #77 on: September 13, 2008, 03:30:47 AM »
Did you listen to what she actually said in the interview?
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CthulhuKefka

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2008, 03:36:19 AM »
I did listen to what she said, the part where Gibson asked her about a speech she gave at her church. She tried to weasel out and say she didn't say what she said, but anyone who watches the church video sees that she says exactly that. Bottom line, she thinks the Iraq war is some divine mandate, a mission from God.

All that stuff about granting all countries "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," I can see how in an idealistic world that could be a nice thing, but essentially it's saying "we're coming into your country to do things our way." I do not agree with that. The United States has no right to tell another country how to run, or invade it to dictate how it should run.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2008, 04:25:50 AM »
So you didn't link to the video that scared you, but to something else?

Okay. I watched her church speech. I think you've got it wrong. She says (while talking about her son in the army):

"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right also for this country—that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan. So, um, bless them with your prayers, your prayers of protection over our soldiers."

Charles Gibson took a dependent clause and turned it into a main clause! That's dishonest journalism. If she had said, "Pray that everyone in Iraq loves their neighbor and shuns war"—a perfectly reasonable statement—and he said, "You said 'Everyone in Iraq loves their neighbor and shuns war'; how could you be so blind?" that wouldn't be good journalism either.

She didn't say "this task is from God." She said to pray that our national leaders knew what they were doing, that they were wise enough to follow a plan that lined up with what God's will was. There's a biiiig difference there, and she explained the difference quite well in the interview. When I saw the interview the first time I thought it might be weasely, but now that I've seen the original speech I can see that it totally isn't.

But anyway, what do you think the United States should do about countries that are mass-killing their citizens and the United States believes they are helping out people who are mass-killing the United States' citizens?

On the face of it, the statement "The United States has no right to tell another country how to run, or invade it to dictate how it should run." sounds very reasonable, however I am not sure there are never exceptions. I think a lot of things were done poorly in the Iraq invasion, but I personally don't have better plans that should have been used, and I also think getting rid of Saddam was a good idea. The decision to do it was made using bad data; very few people would deny that now.

If you believe it's God's will for the people on the earth to make good decisions that will help other people, it's perfectly reasonable to pray that you make decisions in line with his will, and to pray that people responsible for your loved ones are making decisions in line with his will. She's not saying, "We're doing God's will, aren't we great?" She's saying she hopes they're doing God's will. That is not a scary thing to hope for.
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CthulhuKefka

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2008, 04:56:15 AM »
Ok, I re watched the church video and the Gibson interview and admit that I misinterpreted her statement. Then again, when I watched them the first time I was quite tired, so I attribute my mistake to that.  ;D


But anyway, what do you think the United States should do about countries that are mass-killing their citizens and the United States believes they are helping out people who are mass-killing the United States' citizens?

Don't get me wrong, Saddam was a murderous sociopath. I've been against the Iraq war from the beginning because Iraq had no connection with 9/11 or al-Qaeda.

 Ok, so we invaded Iraq to dispose of Saddam. We did that. We're still there. Now we're there to stabilize the region. If we can stabilize the Middle East, then...just wow. Yes, Saddam's regime was horrible and did really bad things. But there are a lot of even worse regimes out there. Why haven't we invaded Darfur to help them out? Or tried to help out Tibet?
And why are we still allies with places like Pakistan? Hell, the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia...oh wait, they're our allies too.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 04:58:25 AM by CthulhuKefka »

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2008, 05:05:51 AM »
Darfur—at the moment, I think the U.S. wants to get out of the mess it's in and try to learn from its mistakes. There are a lot of similarities, though, with the ethnic thing. If the U.S. had done a good job in Iraq and turned it around already, maybe they should go intervene in Darfur. I don't think the U.S. is going to do much invading in the next decade, but if they do feel the situation somewhere warrants, I really hope they have a better plan from the start.

Tibet is not quite the same. There it's mostly cultural suppression rather than killing, though there is some of that. There are a lot worse places in the world right now to be a native of than Tibet. (And of course there's the whole China thing. Wanting to spread the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is one thing; outright stupidity is another.)

Pakistan just got a new president installed, the widower of a very respected democratic activist. If Musharraf hadn't had to do so much to stay in the U.S.'s good graces, I don't know if that would have been possible.

Saudi Arabia is a rich country and Osama Bin Ladin was a lazy rich guy with too much time on his hands. There are plenty of countries that can produce people like that. The mainstream Saudis are pretty worldly. (It's a bad place for women though. I'm not going to deny that.)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 05:10:32 AM by Ookla The Mok »
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CthulhuKefka

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2008, 05:22:01 AM »
Very well put Ookla. While I may come off as a little harsh in my posts, it's not because of any hate towards anyone here.  :)

It's true that WE may not invade another country in the next decade, but Israel has lately been doing a lot of saber-rattling and such towards Iran, and if they attack Iran, there will be a lot of calls for us to assist them. I don't want our soldier's dying for other peoples wars.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #83 on: September 13, 2008, 05:37:47 AM »
I admit I haven't been paying all that much attention to Israel's foreign policy. They have problems at home they should be taking care of. You know, making peace, not separating Palestinians who were there before they were into ghettos, that sort of thing. Before WWII, Jewish people and Islamic people got along just fine. There was a huge Jewish population in Baghdad, for instance. The animosity that developed between them is one of the great tragedies of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Is Israel afraid Iran will nuke them? I think if the U.S. had credible intelligence that any country was about to nuke any other, the U.S. should take action. But helping Israel invade some other country just because they've got swelled heads would be a very bad idea.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 05:43:17 AM by Ookla The Mok »
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CthulhuKefka

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #84 on: September 13, 2008, 05:58:18 AM »
I agree. The whole US/Israel thing could be seen as an outcome of when George Washington warned against "entangling alliances."

But I've kind of thread jacked this thread, so I'll try to reign it back towards Palin.

Um.....

 ;D

I dunno, like I've said before, one of my gripes is over the whole "book banning" thing.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #85 on: September 13, 2008, 06:28:08 AM »
It would be easier to make a judgment on that if she had ever actually gotten around to banning any books. :)
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CthulhuKefka

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #86 on: September 13, 2008, 06:33:00 AM »
True, but just the fact that she tried is a black mark against her in my book.  ;)

The way I understand the whole situation is that she called the librarian to ask if she was alright with censoring/banning book. The librarian said absolutely not (bless her), and a few months later she received a letter from Palin saying that she was going to be fired. However, there was no mention of the "censorship incident" being the reason for her firing.

Well this didn't sit well with everyone else, since the librarian was pretty much well liked and respected, and after a lot of pressure, Palin relented and didn't go through with the firing.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #87 on: September 13, 2008, 08:31:49 AM »
She seemed to be firing a lot of people for unclear reasons like loyalty tests and whatnot. I don't get it.
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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #88 on: September 15, 2008, 03:56:52 PM »
Kefka, you are really stretching to find reasons not to like this candidate.  First you "misunderstand" her in her interview, then you convict her of attempting to ban books where there is little evidence to suggest that was her goal.  If there was a real issue there, the Dems would be screaming it from the rooftops, and you know it.  Like I said in an earlier post, for all we know Palin could have received word that this librarian wanted to ban a book, and was trying to find out if it was true or not.  This is just as likely as the alternative, so it shouldn't sway you.  Whether you realize it or not, you are looking for ways to dislike her because she is a Republican.  The fact is, if you don't agree with her issues, you don't have to go any further in looking for ways to discredit her.   
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Miyabi

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Re: The Sarah Palin VP announcement
« Reply #89 on: September 15, 2008, 06:19:07 PM »
Woo!

This makes me laugh.  Tina Fey looks EXACTLY like Palin!
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