Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Reading Excuses => Topic started by: spejoku on December 15, 2008, 10:58:58 PM
-
Put your questions here and I'll try to explain as best I can. I still need to find where I put my character descriptions, so those are on their way, but everything else put it here.
A brief summary of the story before this chapter:
Jared (POV character) lives in new york. he has 4 older brothers. His family is also enchanted. Jared had his birthday about three or four days before this chapter, where his dad explained the "Family Heritage." Then this chapter starts.
...I need to flesh that out a bit...
-
I didn't receive this chapter.
-
Me neither...:(
-
Neither did I.
-
stupid gmail. let me re-send it.
edit: re sent! I sent the first volley off at school, so that's probably why no one got it. sorry for being so late!
Oh, and the thing is 17 pages long. Don't feel pressured to read it all! only read what you like.
-
I received it :P I'll get it critiqued... soon!
-
Haven't gotten to read yet, but I noticed it was chapter 3. Does it have a synopsis with it?
-
I liked the chapter and I think I'm going to like where you are going with this, but the problem is that I wasn't into it until Trohls? showed up. (And in the subway Caleb said Trohl was "a werewolf, instead of us shapeshifters.")
The whole warring mythological factions in the modern city theme can potentially be a very interesting read (the only other one I remember having read is "The Green and the Gray" by Timothy Zahn and I loved the book).
Not having read the first two chapters, though, isn't going to help our critiques very much. If we don't know what has already been explained, we won't be able to tell you some of the problems.
-
Yay! I got it!
“Hey Jared,” Caleb whispered through the door, “I want to show you something, meet me on the fire escape in five, okay? And bring some shorts or something.”
I know this is how people talk, but it doesn't read all that well. Take out the second "something" at least.
When they both fly off the roof and started changing into dogs/wolves, I was like WTH??!! I guess you'll explain that in chapters 1 and 2?
However, I don't quite understand why Jared was afraid of dying if he knew the changing would make him survive.
That line about "the average Joe's ability to ignore the obvious" is a good line. But unless you have some serious magical explanation for why people ignore talking dogs, take it out.
When you put in lots of modern slang and song references, it is good and everybody understands. But in a year, two years, five? no one will know what you are talking about and it really dates the book. Every read the Pendragon cycle? (not arthur. I think it started out as a teen-level series.) the author put in a ton of common slang and words but when I read it ten years later I was laughing at the archaic phrases. Something to think about.
alright now I am about halfway through but I am afraid I have to go pick up my bro and sis from school...I'll try to finish this post later. Sorry.
EDIT: alright, heres the rest.
I started walking off into the tree(s) all sneaky-like. That smell had something that made it, and unless it was all wolfy too, I didn’t want it seeing me.
I don't understand why he would assume that an "oily" smell is bad or dangerous. Its a city. He's been smelling things all day.
Trohs laughed, a silver sound
what is a silver sound?
Trohs is pretty cool, but if you want him to sound intimidating don't let him say things like "anyhoo" and "Hold still now."
Like a classic villain, Trohs was still gloating when I struck.
yes. that is very true. Hes been holding Caleb for long enough to say "Snip snip, mutt", “Thinking of escaping on the train? Too bad pets aren’t allowed”, and “Better hurry or you’ll miss it!”
Plus any number of evil, sociopathic grins, chuckles, and razor-sharp smiles.
Overall it looks pretty good. Good characterization and setting, pretty good for details and descriptions. It feels like you are giving away waaaay too much in this first chapter though. Make us keep on reading to find out what this is about. Don't give away so much about their abilities.
-
The only thing that I can really add is about the wolf/dog/mutant thing. Which is it? I could see Caleb and Jared as wolves and Trohs as a werewolf but that added mutant thing kept throwing me out of the story. I would suggest pick one are run with it.
I was disappointed when I got to the end and there was no more to read.
-
When you put in lots of modern slang and song references, it is good and everybody understands. But in a year, two years, five? no one will know what you are talking about and it really dates the book. Every read the Pendragon cycle? (not arthur. I think it started out as a teen-level series.) the author put in a ton of common slang and words but when I read it ten years later I was laughing at the archaic phrases. Something to think about.
Trohs is pretty cool, but if you want him to sound intimidating don't let him say things like "anyhoo" and "Hold still now."
Thanks a lot for all your help. You're right about the slang and Troh's dialogue; I need to change those up. I have a weakness for plot dumps that I need to get over too. I should maybe split some of the reveals into earlier chapters.
when I wrote this, I wanted to cram as much as I could, so the people who read it (you guys aren't the first ones, sorry) would have a better idea of what he could do for the fighting scene.
What happened before all this is that 1, Jared had his birthday and his dad revealed what the family could do. 2, Jared freaks out and tries to forget all about it. for the most part his family lets him be. 3. Caleb comes in and this chapter happens.
However, I don't quite understand why Jared was afraid of dying if he knew the changing would make him survive.
Jared, besides knowing the whole shapeshifting thing, has no clue what abilities come with it. He doesn't know what he can live through, and Caleb intends to show it to him. in this chapter the point was to show what he can start to do, and to introduce his fear-smelling ability. Each shapeshifter character will have a different specific ability; Caleb's is near precognative reflexes.
The only thing that I can really add is about the wolf/dog/mutant thing. Which is it? I could see Caleb and Jared as wolves and Trohs as a werewolf but that added mutant thing kept throwing me out of the story. I would suggest pick one are run with it.
Trohs is a werewolf, rather than a shifter. The thing is that werewolves here get their power from the new moon, rather than the full one, because of plot. Werewolves are infectuous; they can make people one against their will. Shapeshifters, along without having the bipedal ape form, is stuck within a family. The only way to make someone who is not a shapeshifter into one is for the family to adopt them and for them to get some blood from a shapeshifting person. It's complicated.
Most shapeshifters, along with the other family based magical creatures (there's more, trust me) regard Werewolves as freaks, mainly because they aren't bound to bloodlines. It sort of became instinctual for the "regular" magic beings to dislike Werecreatures, which is part of why Jared thinks Trohs is freaky. the other part is that Trohs really is freaky.
Jared sees Trohs as a mutant, that's the only reason he's described that way. I'll take it out.
I don't understand why he would assume that an "oily" smell is bad or dangerous. Its a city. He's been smelling things all day.
the fear scent gives Jared bad vibes. I need to make that more clear.
That line about "the average Joe's ability to ignore the obvious" is a good line. But unless you have some serious magical explanation for why people ignore talking dogs, take it out.
I'll add a sort of natural "shroud" ability to all the magic characters in a later draft. If the presence of magic makes regular people hallucinate normality, then it makes everything much easier. I'll keep the joe line until I really have to explain the shroud. Caleb would lie to Jared just for a cool line.
...I have a problem with lame non-fight scenes. I need to add some family tension or something to make things more interesting in the non-combat parts.
I was disappointed when I got to the end and there was no more to read.
Thanks! ;D That helps a lot.
-
Other than what's already been said, the main thing I saw was too many vague descriptors. Like "kind of," "sort of," "somewhat," that kind of stuff. If it was in dialogue, it wouldn't be so bad (I would still say take most of it out though, because even though people talk like that, like Reeves said, it doesn't read very well).
I agree with the giving too much away too early. It almost feels like there should more build-up to it. More mystery. I don't know what's in the first 2 chapters, though, so maybe there is enough build-up, I don't know.
It's a compelling story. I'm looking forward to reading more of it. Good job.
-
Here we go with the dreaded frog critique:
I really liked your first person narration, but by the end it was a bit...overwhelming? If that makes since. I just wanted a few more concrete details rather then all judgments just so I can make a few judgments of my own and really trust the narrator to tell the whole story. No one wants to be that far in someone else's head. And some of the judgments, we simply don't need. Like if your going to say in the dialog that Jared thinks they are going party crashing, we don't need it in the narration before hand. And please try to avoid directly addressing the reader, especially twice in a row with the same phrase ("don't ask"... Of course I won't ask. He really isn't there to ask!). So I would tone that down a bit.
I understand that Jared is young, but how old is Trohs? All that 'pleasant' dialog before he decides to kill him (Jared obviously isn't so imitated by him that he can't have an Q&A session with him), and then his tantrum at the end...He just seemed a bit too immature to be the real threat. Maybe a flunky that loves to play the bully. But if that is what your looking for, good.
In the same token, I'm a sucker for good dialog and yours was good (just watch the slang like someone else already said).
Another thing that confused me a bit: It seemed like there was a clear transition between his new hearing and his new smell, when I think they would all be coming at once. I mean, it may be a bit harder to write about that way, but you can't exactly say, 'hey nose, turn off a sec while I play with my new ears...okay got that. New nose, go!' This was especially hard because it seemed like not only did my narrator do it, but so did his brother in his explanations, like he already knew the hearing would be the first thing to be explored...weird.
So that's it from me. I liked it. I want more and a little annoyed that I had to start in the middle...grr...
-
Hearing and smell would both come at the same time, but as both are really important (smell moreso) right now I don't think I'd be able to have them both hit at the same time and make things clear of what he can do. Most likely I could have him simply ignore one of them... but I don't really know how that would work effectively.
Caleb just was observant of what Jared was doing. he didn't know what order they'd pop up. I really wanted to put in the gameshow bit though. too bad I'll probably have to take it out.
-
You're right. That is a good line. Let me think about it again...
It was the line right before it I had the real issue with.
"Well, now that you’re done with the hearing overload, I think it’s high time for the scent experience."
It kinda makes me feel like he's in Jared's head. But if you just used different transition, I could easily see Caleb pointing out the garbage on his own; setting himself up for that line and giving Jared a hard time just for kicks.
And for the rest of the senses, I'd be satisfied with just one line or two that told me they hit him all at once, and then you can go ahead and separate them.
I think making a few simple adjustments like that would probably fix most the issues, so please don't take anything I said too hard.
-
It's okay. I never take anyone's word on the internet completely seriously (unless the topic lends itself to it). Thanks for pointing it out though, that's the main reason for having non-authors read stuff :)
-
To respond to the discussion first: The mutant thing I didn’t really have a problem. I just assumed it was Caleb & family’s way of referring to themselves. And I can see how changing into a wolf might make people think you are kind of, well, mutant. I can also see why Jared might think of Trohs as a mutant. That whole gorilla/wolf/shark tooth thing seemed pretty mutant to me.
I didn’t really think you were revealing too much about their abilities. I had the sense that the information you would be stringing us along for would be more setting based: the council you mentioned, the different clans (or whatever), the different kinds of shifters, etcetera.
I seem to be the voice of dissent on that point, though, so here’s a thought: As has been mentioned, it seems like these things could hit him all at once. That can be overwhelming and even frightening and aside from being a good conflict, might help you slow down those reveals some. Of course you have to give us a fairly good idea of what Jared can do, but you don’t need to do it all at once. So, he gets sudden sensory overload, doesn’t know what to make of it, everything’s all a jumble for awhile. Then, you pick out one sense at a time for him to notice. Since you said smell is most important, go for that one. It’d be a great one to pick anyway, since smell tends to be so overlooked both in writing and in real life. Well, unless someone’s forgotten to shower recently.
Yeah, just ignore my attempts at humour. I know they’re sad.
My comments:
Caleb tells Jared not to call attention to himself – which makes sense, except Caleb says this right after saying “hi” to some random on the street, presumably while still in wolf form. Doesn’t that count as calling attention to yourself? The amazing flying jumping dog also seems like it might be a little bit obvious – and again, he says this right after telling Jared not to blow their cover.
Is this the first time Jared’s shifted shape? Because at first, I had the impression that while this wasn’t everyday for him, it also wasn’t brand new, but there are a couple of things that seem to point pretty strongly to this being his first time. (His heightened senses seem to bewilder him, for one, and he also asks Caleb why Caleb is so much bigger than he is.)
I’m a bit unclear on what the characters actually look like in wolf form. At first I thought they were completely canine, but as I continue I’m starting to think I was wrong. I think part of it’s the talking – I can’t imagine talking would be easy with a canine mouth.
Okay. Later you distinguish between werewolves (Trohs) and shifters (Caleb and Jared), which again makes me think that Caleb and Jared have fully fledged wolf forms, but the way you’re describing the action – a kick here, a breakdance move – still seems very human, and more than a little implausible if they’re actual wolves.
Trohs being actually afraid of them getting away (at least in the same way as being afraid for your life, say, and therefore the same smell) seems a bit strange. Actually, I can buy the narrator thinking that, but it does cue the reader to think that Trohs either afraid of something else, or that Caleb and Jared getting away means a lot more than some territorial dispute, which is what this appears to be.
I think that’s about it. I’m really interested in the setting and can already take a few stabs at what the conflict will be in the future. Good work so far.
-
Hmm. Well, Caleb's character would have him say something and contradict it in the next moment. He does most of this stuff to have fun. You shouldn't really believe everything Caleb says, he jokes around a little too much. The official explanation for why Caleb doesn't blow their cover is that the only way to notice them (via the magical creature shroud) shifted is to force them to notice you, either by attacking them or shifting in front of them. As Caleb says, the longer you spend in wolf form, the bigger you get. Also, he neglected to mention there is also a whole aging slowdown. Jared's dad has years of wolf form under his belt. If it weren't for his Talent (like Jared's fear smelling, Caleb's reflexes) He most likely would be about the size of a semi truck. (and no I won't tell you what the talent is. you'll just have to read.) Although, I probably need to put a size limit or something. Maybe I'll just say that after a while, all of jared's family moves out to some rural town of their choice.
aaand yeah most of the reveals are setting based. That's why I have to rework my next few chapters to get rid of the (hmmm, around five) FIVE info dumps about the setting.
This is Jared's second time shifting ever. the first was on the night of his birthday, when he is forced into shifting (there's a forced shifting ritual that they perform on every birthday. It kinda became a tradition, like blowing out the candles. only with magic rituals) Jared shifts long enough to panic and for his dad to talk to him about why they can shift (suffice to say, it's cause they were born with it). Jared's blind panic blocked him from going through hearing and smell then.
Also, they do look canine, but their bone structure is... weird. I describe what they look like when Jared first shifts (it'd just be awkward here) but the way I think about it is that they have a weird meld of human and wolf bones. or they constantly (and subconciously) shift their bones back and forth. They have five toes to their paws, which they can move a little, but not enough to grab things. Their torso and spine is kinda more squat, closer to human porportions. that way, Caleb can do his freaky twisty moves.
As for how they can talk, I'm going to leave that to the "it's magic" explanation. (if you really want something, then what happens is that somehow their thoughts get turned into words in the air and they don't even need to move their mouths to talk. but whatever.)
As for Trohs' fear of them getting away, yes it's more than just a territorial dispute, but I'm gonna call a RAFO on that.
speaking of twistyness, I got some (if not most) of my ideas for how Caleb moves from nofna.com (it's a webcomic, but your guess is as good as mine what some of those attacks mean. oh, and there's some language).
-
Ok, usually I read all the other critiques before I post my own, but I don't have time for that right now so I apologize if some of this is a repeat. Also, sorry it has taken me so long to get to your submission. I hope you can still use this.
Ok, let me get the nit-picky things out first.
When he was halfway across, Caleb twisted in the air to face me and smile
Maybe say, "...to face me and smiled."
He moved from still so suddenly that I wondered if he had ever stopped.
This sentence was confusing to me.
...adrenaline giving us wings
I thought this was a bit cheesy.
It’s hard being needed, even harder when the person who needs you would get killed by a sociopath mutant otherwise.
I think you could do without this sentence.
Like a classic villain, Trohs was still gloating
Sorry, rolled my eyes on this one...a little over the top for me.
Ok, enough of that. Now for what I liked.
Caleb was actually laughing, the idiot.
I was laughing out loud on this one. Reminded me of one of my friends. Great job.
I mentally resolved to stuff potpourri into his face the next chance I got
Another great line, keep this. Although you tend to say, "mentally resolved" a lot. How about, "I vowed to stuff..."
Ok, now for my critique.
The story is great, and I understand this is not chapter one, but the story seems a little jumbled to me. I like the first person narrative, but sooooo much happened in this submission that I got tired of reading, "then I did this, then I did that." It's hard for me to pin point exactly what I'm trying to explain, I'm sorry.
Another thing I didn't like was that your MC has just discovered he has these "powers" or "abilities" and yet it takes his older brother to get him off his butt to go out and experiment and learn about them.
I also thought the "smells and scent" portions were good, but a little long. I liked how he found out that the oily smell was fear, that was cool. But preceding that, the whole garbage and other smells eventually started to drag.
I think the story is great and has potential. I would steer a little away from the slang and make it more descirptive and less, "now we did this and now we are doing that." Hope this helps. Good luck!
-
Hehe! I loved it!!!!!!!!!
Lots of !'s for you.
I liked the way you brought it into New York. So it's sort of a fantasy character (or species of character) in a setting we're all vaguely familiar with even if it's only in films etc. And also, putting in Katy Perry's song shows you're dealing with a modern audience.
Enjoyed the somewhat chatty feel to the language used.
Must admit, as has been said before, a lot did happen. You could almost have that one chapter as a whole short story, but not overly sure how you would seperate it....
Anyhow, that's me :)
-
Although it took me a while to get into, once they were running around like wolves it started to grow on me.
The kicking wolf didn't work for me, in the whole chapter you give the impression of them being wolves (big dogs, shapeshifters) although falling a hundred feet and leaping across streets is stretching it somewhat. (Willing to go along with the street thing, not the 100 feet drop)
Also I didn't feel as though I was missing essential information so this could probably be adapted into chap 1 as well.
-
Thanks a lot. I do need to figure out better moves for them to have, as kicks are kind of jarring. but biting seems kind of plain... Anyway, I'll probably do it that Caleb pushes Jared off the escape, shifts, then runs down the fire escape and catches him before he hits the ground. that'd probably be better. If I want to make it sort of timeless, though, I'll have to take out the song. oh well.
-
If it helps, wolves often use their fangs to slice with. So anything a dagger could do their fangs can as well. They often disembowel their prey on the run. With their short teeth though they often have to suffocate their prey to finish them, if they even bother.
-
That's good to know. thanks!