Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: ErikHolmes on September 29, 2010, 06:34:52 AM
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So, in the book The Thrill is mentioned several times. When asked about, it seems like it a topic few want to discuss.
If you really look at the Thrill is like superhuman bloodlust, destruction, even hatred. Its like a killing rage.
Now look at this quote from on of the radiants:
“All who can fight are needed,” the woman said. “And all who have a desire to fight should be compelled to come to Alethela. Fighting, even this fighting against the Ten Deaths, changes a person. We can teach you so that it will not destroy you. Come to us
Could she be talking about teaching a person not to be overcome by the Thrill?
My thought is that The Thrill is the power of Odium.
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Don't you think that the enjoyment of killing could have been seen as corrupting even without there being something supernatural involved?
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Hang on.
What are the Ten Deaths?
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Even if it's not Odium's touch directly, bloodlust is probably a small part of Odium no matter where it happens in the cosmere. I feel that somehow the powers of the shards are indirectly manifest everywhere, even if their consciousness and powers are not directly applied to it.
So maybe in Brandon's mythology, you guys are saying the same thing!
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Could also explain why other cultures (Shin, Horneaters) do not value warriors as much as other, less-tainted Callings.
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Hang on.
What are the Ten Deaths?
I assumed, when I first read the quote, that they were just a type of Voidbringer... or weren't there 10 Desolations? Maybe its just another name for those. I'm not sure, especially now that I've finished the book and I'm looking back at the quote.
On topic, I agree that the Thrill seems like an almost inhumane bloodlust. Its quite plausible that Odium influences it in someway, although I don't think Brandon uses a direct connection like the one that Ruin has with Hermalurgic spikes. I toyed with the idea that shardplate gave a person a more powerful version of the Thrill, but I discarded the idea. The more I think about it though, Kaladin is an amazing fighter, perhaps parallel in abilities to Dalinar, but he does not experience the Thrill in the same way that Dalinar does. The Thrill almost controls Dalinar in a battle, while Kaladin is more in control of himself, relying on the Stormlight to guide him through the battle. The Thrill COULD be an influence from Odium, while Stormlight is perhaps the leftovers of the Almighty (or another Shardholder's) influence on Roshar. We already know that, even after a shardholder has "died", or whatever happens to them, they can still influence the world (see Mistborn). In Mistborn, Leras' connection is Allomancy, and it still works even when he is gone.
As I typed that paragraph, I changed my views a lot, and made a lot more connections than I originally was thinking. Anyone have any other ideas about the Thrill?
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I wasn't thinking that the Thrill was supernatural at all, honestly. I had assumed it was just a cultural way of thinking about the . . . well, the thrill . . . of the fight. Of being in mortal danger but fighting anyway, against those trying to kill you, trying to kill them first. The ultimate contest.
Considering how Dalinor starts being sickened after experiencing the Thrill, it does seem like it's possible that it's supernatural. I still don't know if I'd considering it the most probable explanation, but yeah, possible.
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Its most likely a cultural thing, competition is highly honored in Alethi society it is everywhere in their culture, so I doubt it is all that big a deal
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There is almost certainly something to it. Dalinar even thinks about how the culture doesn't like to talk about it. Law of conservation of detail wins here again i think
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It could be the reason the Radiants left, because people were starting to love warfare, that would explain the importance placed upon it, without repeating a Ruin like influence over people
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Taking a step back a bit, I think we need to ask the question "Where's Odium's influence?"
He would be almost certainly playing a "long game" as it were. We should be looking at aspects of society that are getting "worse", particularly over long periods of time. While some might be natural cycles he could also be pushing them in particular directions that are suitable for his plans.
I think "The Thrill" could be a natural cultural thing... but to me, it feels just a bit off. If it was ingrained culturally, then you would expect it to be fairly consistent. But if it was unnatural you would expect it to be more changeable. So while I think "The Thrill" could be "natural" or have natural origins, it could have been made worse / more pervasive with Odium's influence.
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Taking a step back a bit, I think we need to ask the question "Where's Odium's influence?"
He would be almost certainly playing a "long game" as it were. We should be looking at aspects of society that are getting "worse", particularly over long periods of time. While some might be natural cycles he could also be pushing them in particular directions that are suitable for his plans.
I think "The Thrill" could be a natural cultural thing... but to me, it feels just a bit off. If it was ingrained culturally, then you would expect it to be fairly consistent. But if it was unnatural you would expect it to be more changeable. So while I think "The Thrill" could be "natural" or have natural origins, it could have been made worse / more pervasive with Odium's influence.
This is what I was thinking. While the thrill of battle itself its a natural emotion (people in the real world experience this and have for centuries), it seems like something outside of Dalinar himself is pushing the Thrill. I think it is Odium specifically because Dalinar is a righteous, good person. Everything he does, at least so far, has been to better his people as a whole. If the Thrill is influenced by Odium, then it makes sense that, although Dalinar experiences it often, his mind/body reject it a lot more now (presumably because of reading the Way of Kings, and from the visions).
Its almost like the Thrill is tugging at him from one side, but his normal instinct is to do the opposite of what the Thrill wants him to. Hes always had this issue, but its being brought to light now that he is being influenced by the Almighty through Way of Kings/the visions.
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The Thrill is definitely supernatural in my opinion. Just look at how its used in the story. It isn't just something he feels, when the thrill takes him he seems to fight better, faster, there are times when Dalinar lets the Thrill take him and a little while later he looks back in shock at the hundreds of people he's killed.
Just look at these quotes:
He was losing his thirst for battle. That worried him, as the Thrill—the enjoyment and longing for war—was part of what drove the Alethi as a people
The Thrill excited him, strengthened him
He felt a spike of regret along with displeasure at the Thrill. Surely these Parshendi—these soldiers—deserved respect, not glee, as they were slaughtered
He remembered the times when the Thrill had been the strongest. Subduing the highprinces with Gavilar during their youths, forcing back the Vedens, fighting the Herdazians and destroying the Akak Reshi. Once, the thirst for battle had nearly led him to attack Gavilar himself. Dalinar could remember the jealousy on that day some ten years ago, when the itch to attack Gavilar—the only worthy opponent he could see, the man who had won Navani’s hand—had nearly consumed him.
His army surged forward behind him, and the Thrill bubbled within. It was power. Strength greater than Shardplate. Vitality greater than youth. Skill greater than a lifetime of practice. A fever of power. Parshendi after Parshendi fell before his Blade. He couldn’t cut their flesh, yet he sheared through their ranks. The momentum of their attacks often carried their corpses stumbling past him even as their eyes burned. The Parshendi started to break, running away or falling back. He grinned behind his near-translucent visor
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The Thrill is definitely supernatural in my opinion. Just look at how its used in the story. It isn't just something he feels, when the thrill takes him he seems to fight better, faster, there are times when Dalinar lets the Thrill take him and a little while later he looks back in shock at the hundreds of people he's killed.
Just look at these quotes:
He was losing his thirst for battle. That worried him, as the Thrill—the enjoyment and longing for war—was part of what drove the Alethi as a people
The Thrill excited him, strengthened him
He felt a spike of regret along with displeasure at the Thrill. Surely these Parshendi—these soldiers—deserved respect, not glee, as they were slaughtered
He remembered the times when the Thrill had been the strongest. Subduing the highprinces with Gavilar during their youths, forcing back the Vedens, fighting the Herdazians and destroying the Akak Reshi. Once, the thirst for battle had nearly led him to attack Gavilar himself. Dalinar could remember the jealousy on that day some ten years ago, when the itch to attack Gavilar—the only worthy opponent he could see, the man who had won Navani’s hand—had nearly consumed him.
His army surged forward behind him, and the Thrill bubbled within. It was power. Strength greater than Shardplate. Vitality greater than youth. Skill greater than a lifetime of practice. A fever of power. Parshendi after Parshendi fell before his Blade. He couldn’t cut their flesh, yet he sheared through their ranks. The momentum of their attacks often carried their corpses stumbling past him even as their eyes burned. The Parshendi started to break, running away or falling back. He grinned behind his near-translucent visor
I say it is natural, it is simply adrenaline. But I agree with the theory that while it is natural Odium has been influencing it and making it stronger.
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I just assumed its natural, and definitely there is a natural thing to it, think of berserkers in Celtic society.
However its possible that Odium or another liked shardholder like Bavadin. Maybe the reason that Dalinar becomes so disgusted by the thrill is because his connection with the Almighty allows him to feel Odium's taint on the thrill and he is unconsciously rejecting it.
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IMHO, it's the other way round.
Supernatural influence is suppressing his natural reaction to battle.
The visions are changing him to think outside the eternal rat-race thinking of his culture.
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Possible. But he can still fight to protect himself and others. It's just that he no longer feels a thrill at slaughtering multitudes. To me his becoming more human, less animal.
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I figured the "Ten Deaths" were the Vorin version of the Seven Deadly Sins. Kabsal mentions some other "Ten" things on page 634 withing going into detail, so it sounds like the religion has a lot of them:
"An unpopular part. People prefer to hear about the Ten Divine Attributes or the Ten Human Failings. We accommodate them because we, also, prefer that to the deep past."
Even on this interpretation, the Trill could be one of their sins, but I rather expected the Thrill is part of Vorinism, and a masculine ideal. The religion considers being a solider to be the highest Calling.
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Cultural is possible, but it could also be genealogical or even trained (possibly due to your Calling?). I always took it as being similar to Shallan's Memory where it is an actual ability. Dalinar's comes out when he is fighting and gives him extra strength/speed/clarity though he doesn't have conscious control of it, while for Shallan it is something she has to consciously use.
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Something blew against him. “Wait!” Kaladin said. “Why is there so much war? Must we always fight?” He wasn’t sure why he asked. The questions simply came out.
The storm rumbled, like a thoughtful aged father. The face vanished, shattering into droplets of water.
More softly, the voice answered, ODIUM REIGNS.
And how does Odium Reign? He reigns Because:
the Thrill—the enjoyment and longing for war—was part of what drove the Alethi as a people
Rayse is a drug dealer. The Alethi are his addicts and The Thrill is the drug.
I think the Radiants knew this, which is why the one tells Dalinar that if he has a desire to fight he needs to come to them and get training, so that the thrill doesn't consume him.