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Messages - Savage Beast

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Writing Group / Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« on: February 24, 2006, 01:40:23 PM »
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However, regarding the debate, I have to say that I don't really believe in using tricks and novelties to get attention for submissions. experimenting.  

Publishers tell authors what they want, so why shouldn't we believe them?



Couldn't agree with you more. Even with my sense of adventure, I don't believe in tricks and gimmicks. Sending a fake bloody axe for a horror novel, sending balloons, or using the name of the agent as your main character do not work.

But nothing I suggested was in my mind a trick. I hope that in my presentations I have never suggested that an editor will say, "Oh my, a picture! And look no SASE. This has really sparked my interest. I think I'll read on." Nothing could be further from the truth.

The main point of this presentation is that you have a limited amount of time and space to sell your story and yourself. Make the most of it.

As far as publishers, it is my firm conviction that no publisher really knows what they want. If they did, they could just hire writers hourly to create it.

And don't believe a thing Jules says about me supporting other writers. I do nothing of the kind. I spit upon them and tell them to take up seal training.

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Writing Group / Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« on: February 22, 2006, 03:29:01 PM »
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So, while I think Mr. Savage has some excellent points, and is good at making a discussion, I don't really agree with his two controversial items.  


Funny how the two least important items are the ones that get all the attention. I probably spent 5 minutes max on those items, and I prefaced the SASE with the warning that I didn't expect most people to take that advice.

I agree with you that the pic may not be applicable to the sf/f space. My focus has been primarily mainstream, although mainstream supernatural suspense. In fact in my next presentation, I'll probably change the pic alone to a pic with a short bio. At worst it gets thrown away, but at best you are showing that you understand the importance of getting out and marketing your book after the sale. I'd be surprised at any publisher who didn't think that was important.

As far as the SASE, I do not in any way suggest that not including a SASE will increase your chances of getting looked at. This advice is totally about my personal feelings. After receiving dozens of rejections, I came to hate seeing those stupid envelopes with my labels on them. So I dumped them. And when I got my agent it was the same way I sold my LDS books, by phone.

I stand by the statement that if your work is good enough you will be contacted by e-mail or phone. I don't believe for a minute that your work will be thrown away because there is no SASE. This is not about saving forty cents, it's about believing in your work. But again, let me restate that I don't have a probelm with anyone not taking that advice.

BTW, here's my pic. I think it goes great w/ the wolfman look.



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Writing Group / Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« on: February 19, 2006, 03:32:38 PM »
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Wait, we have to shower?  Well, there goes all my promotional plans....


So that's why my signings go so poorly! Do I have to use soap or can I kind of just jump in and out?

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Writing Group / Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« on: February 19, 2006, 12:08:45 AM »
I hadn't heard of it when I did it, or maybe I had and just didn't rember where. But since then, I've heard it from lots of agents and authors. I still think it's a big minority, but that makes it stand out a little. It is not the standard and no one will say, "Hey where's the picture in this query." But I also don't think anyone will laugh.

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Writing Group / Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« on: February 18, 2006, 11:17:33 PM »
Good to meet you all. Mirrorstone looks great. Very impressive web site. I know Wizards of the Coast but hadn't seen the YA imprint before. I also didn't know that WOC did horror. I'll have to see if I can get a copy of Dark Memories sent over after Sep. when you start taking submissions again.

By all means, if you are uncomfortable with some piece  of my advice, don't take it.

As far as marketing, it'll probably depend on the publisher, but my experience is that you have to do most of it yourself, and most of it is in person. I don't have anything like movie star looks, but I have to give presenatations, do signings, drive from store to store for  meet-and-greets, do school presentations, etc.

And most booksignings are not like I picured them. If you don't get up from behind the desk and sell your books (and yourself,) you end up pretty lonely.

Also, every time you send out press, they want an author photo along with the cover of the book. In the hard copy of this Des News article,

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635159507,00.html

my author photo was about about 4x8. The book cover was only about 2x3 1/2.

The only thing relating to my books I get to do in private is write them.

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Writing Group / Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« on: February 18, 2006, 05:07:21 PM »
Stacer, great to meet you. I read all your comments and agree completely with everything you said. Who do you edit for?

I agree that you are potentially losing out on some comments if you don't include a SASE. Although it's funny, I actually had people contact me recently and one recived her first e-mail reponse and it was a rejection. Then another actually had an agent send a letter on the company dime and it was another rejection. Go figure! My experience has generally been that meaningful feedback usually comes only after sending 3 chaps or fifty pages, or the whole ms., but I have no problem either way.

You and I are in complete agreement on the true decider being the quality of the writing. The best wrapping paper can't disguise a lousy gift.

But I still say that a lot of quality writing never makes it in front of the agent/editor because the query stinks. If you give a quality single page excerpt, a blurb that really sells itself, and a short professional query letter, along with a 5x7 or 8x10 that looks professional, you will have more info requested.

Just as an FYI, I'm still learning alot. So I by no means consider myself the final word. I have published three LDS novels. I have a national supernatural thriller with Jacky Sach at Bookends, LLC right now. We came really close to getting picked up by Bantam, and got some great feedback from Berkley and TOR.

I think  my problem with that particular novel was that I was too much between genres. It was 50/50 horror/procedural thriller. The comments I received were like, "Loved the story. The characters were great. Very creepy ending. But we really don't have a slot for it." Bantam asked for some changes but had just published something very similar.

Right now, I'm finishing the second book in my LDS mystery series and then will be sendy Jacky a new national that is straight horror. So we'll see. Hey Jules!

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Writing Group / Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« on: February 16, 2006, 06:10:40 PM »
Hey, all. Okay, I went and googled House of Secrets (I know, I know, total ego thing) and your great conversation hooked me. BTW, guitarbabe, your notes were great. Wish my own had been that organized when I spoke. And thanks for not mentioning that I was ten minutes late.

Just a couple of comments.

First and foremost it's all about the writing. Tough to sell a bad product. But many good writers never get looked at because they think a query equates to a business letter. You are trying to sell your work. Be professional and include things that help showcase your complete offering.

On the SASE debate. Not including a SASE with a query for a novel isn't going to affect your chances of getting published. My feeling is, why pay $0.40 to have someone tell you they don't like your writing? I've talked to dozens of published novelists, both national and LDS and not one has recived an acceptance via SASE. And I've yet to talk to an agent or national publisher who will reject good writing because there's no SASE. If you want to keep track of the rejections (in in a perverse way it's actually kind of fun at first) feel free.

If you are going for a national agent though, DO include a photograph. Again, if your writings not great it won't make a difference. But you are selling a complete package and the big five publishers--along with many regionals--are very focused on how well you can market your book after it comes out. The fact that you know how to look presentable is a definite plus.

This particular presentation was focused on novel submissions to agents and publishers.

On the mulltple submission question, again the focus was queries. I would never recommend that you query only one agent or publisher at a time. That will take you forever, and has no appreciable benefit. A good friend of mine just sent out 5 queries for a national YA fantasy using the four page query. So far he has received two e-mail requests for the first 50 pages. At that stage, the agent may or may not request exclusivity for a limited period of time. Or they may wait until they request the full ms. Either way, I would never recommend ignoring that request. You want a professional agent, so acting professional w/ them only makes sense.

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