Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Reading Excuses => Topic started by: swaindaddy on August 10, 2009, 02:47:26 PM
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thsi is the final chapter of Part I of the book. Let me know what you think.
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I checked my inbox again and I didn't see the email. I could've missed it though, but if not, send again :)
(I swear I'm going to critique this stuff soon. I have all of it, don't worry, and I will get to it soon!)
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I didn't receive it either so I think maybe the email didn't go through?
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Nothing here either.
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Ok, it's there now. Thank you!"
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Wow.
A very good chapter with potential to be even more awesome.
This chapter is my favourite since the one in the beginning with the secret organization, the _____ Hand,( can't quite remember, it's on the tip of my tongue though). It had some very welcome action and a good foreshadowed twist. Although I never expected it to go as far as it did, and I definitely didn't expect Karrys to die, kudos to you for killing off a main character this early on, and giving meaning to her death that defines Garrik's character. Well done.
Okay, now I'm just gonna list off random things that went through my head while reading:
The dialogue was mostly good, but I felt it jarred a bit during Garrik's conversation with Vardis, it had good foreshadowing, but just didn't fit right.
There needed to be more building tension and more anxiety from Garrik during the questioning, because as the whole riot and such seemed too sudden. The tone went from a calm with-butterflies-in-your-stomach feeling, to the adrenaline of a pyromaniac with a flamethrower in a forest. In my humble opinion there should have been more rising action.
Where was Dren? He had a little cameo at the beginning then was gone. I like him and I think he needs more screentime(not just this chapter either, but throughout the book).
The use of the Will was cool. I'm always a sucker for uncontrolled burst of angry power that burns everything and everyone, it was uber neato. Right amount of chaos felt and described, but I could still follow everything.
Would it take half a day to dig a grave?
When he had finished he swore he would never shed another tear
, sorry, but it sounds really cliche. But I can forgive it, cause it's his character swearing it, not you, but still...
He left it buried there in the dirt with his past, his youth. As far as he was concerned he had died too. Garrik was gone.
. This was too telly, in my opinion. Rather than saying all this, maybe just say the first sentence, the rest I want to see in his character and interactions later on. You don't need to tell us, it sounds too cliche and overly dramatic without evidence.
nice ending.
That's about it...Great chapter, but I think it has potential to be more mind shattering and such, I can't wait to see a 3rd or 4th draft version of this chapter(I probably never will, but whatevs) because it will be epic. I really like the direction this is going in, and I like the characters a lot, can't wait to see what happens with Garrik and the Drakkin
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I agree wholeheartedly with all of your points. As a first draft I really put a bit into it but as you pointed out havent got it right totally yet. Your input will be helpful. I agree with each of the cliche elements as well. Tends to happen when first drafting - I will address.
As for Dren - don't worry he will get more time in draft to, perhaps enough that he has almost equal time with Garrik - almost.
I will say this - With Garrik missing Vardis will use an old law to raise Dren to the throne in the mean time. Crazy stuff.
Thanks for the input.
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Ok, so... funny story. I was in the middle of reading your submission when I was rudely interrupted. I didn't get to come back to it for a while, and somewhere along the line I convinced myself that I had actually finished reading it. I was halfway through a critique lambasting you for stopping in the middle of the ceremony when I went back to the submission for a detail... and then erased everything I'd written and felt sheepish. :-[ ::) :P
Heh. So, anyway... Great job with this one! This is the first chapter after their encounter with the Gloaming Hand that actually left my heart pumping after reading it!
Very good job with Laecin. He plays Garrik like a fiddle. But I can't help wondering how he knew that Garrik had overheard... I thought the only people who knew were Karrys and Vardis.
It would be nice to know what the Talonguard is doing during the riot. Surely they would try to contain the mob?
I can't help thinking that Garrik has lost any chance of becoming King peacefully now. I mean, he swore that he would never put himself before the people of the King's Rule, and then he goes and burns them up in a fit of rage. Not that I don't understand it or sympathize, but it's too obvious to be overlooked.
I am looking forward to learning about the Empire! ;D
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Basicallly Laecin knew Garrik was outside his room listening because he used the will to do so. He didn't mind it because it helped plant the doubt in Garriks mind as well as locked him into that bad place with the Judgment. I'll be adding that somehow when Garrik talks to Vardis in the garden prior to the events.
As far as the putting himself before the people - we will find that he really didn't intend to blow up into a fiery ball but simply did not know how to control his anger and the Will. So he had no intention of killing anyone but his rage directed at Laecin resulted in the explosion. Also, he blames the people now for killing Karrys. That will be a driving factor in his character moving forward: Disdain for the King's Rule and it's politics and Karrys' death.
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"he thought the king's eyes shined with anger" is overwritten. Just say he thought the king looked angry, or he thought he saw anger in the man's eyes, or something to that effect.
Page five, "...first bearing his soul" should be "baring". I know you're not too worried about grammar etc right now, but the spellcheck won't catch that one.
I'm not clear on how much impact the Judgement really has on Garrick's future. Do the people actually Judge Garrick, and does it actually have any bearing on whether or not he takes the throne? Or is it just ceremony, just formality? It's not something that you have to reveal right this second (I made this comment right after reading Laecin's speech, ending with "you are here to help judge whether or not this man, selected by the Rite of Eyes..."). In fact, it could be an interesting point of tension throughout the ceremony. But I would like to know one way or the other, probably not too long after the ceremony is finished.
Page seven, "Garrick almost sighed allowed" should be "aloud", another the spellcheck won't catch.
"Garrik may choose to have a royal stand by him in the judgment. The rules allow for a sitting High Duke or Duchess to vouch for the heir in the case of questionable candidates." I'm not too sure what I think of this failsafe, but I don't really know if it makes sense.
Hmmm. So it feels like the story has taken a major turn here. That's fine, good even. But with all the focus on castle life and so forth up until now, it probably wouldn't hurt to add a little bit of foreshadowing.
Also, I hope that it's not TOO major a turn. By which I mean, I hope that this isn't the main storyline's inciting incident--I want to see all those other chapters we've read be relevent and pay off in a way that's more than just getting us to the Judgement so that the real story can start.
Of course, I don't have the rest of the story in my hands, so I don't know what focus you put on events outside of the castle versus events in the castle, and I don't know how much of the story is left at this point. It could be that if I were holding a finished novel in my hands and knew there were only X many pages to go, I wouldn't be worried. As is I wouldn't call this a dealbreaker by any means; it just seems like the focus of the book could be shifting a little too much (or that there was too much focus on some of the earlier stuff).
Anyway, hope that all made sense. Worries about pacing/focus aside, I really appreciated this development.
Hamster made a good point about Dren vanishing. Kudos, Ham, I didn't even catch that one at the time. Hamster also asked if it would take half a day to dig a grave. Well, I've never tried to dig a grave, but one man with a shovel... I'd imagine it'd take a long time.
Ravenstar commented, "But I can't help wondering how he knew that Garrik had overheard... " I assume that Laecin MEANT Garrick to overhear. Some confirmation of that would be nice, though.
And that's all from me for now.
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Hey Chris,
Just letting you know that I finally started plowing through your stuff. I am just writing down my general impressions of the individual chapters since you said in your emails that you don't want the nit picky stuff. I plan on submitting them all together in one post so I don't want to clutter up the forum, but I am at chp 9 right now, and will probably be caught up to give it all to you tomorrow or Thursday. So, yeah they are coming and they are going to be amazing so watch out.
:P
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amazing - that's a strong word there...
Look forward to it
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"Amazing", she says. Watch out!
Chris, you might want to bring an umbrella. :P
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It shall be 'amazing' simply because everything I do is amazing. It is quite distressing how much I have to remind people of that fact. :P
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Hah - umbrella in hand.
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Great chapter.
IMO, this is what could make it better:
The people seemed to go from cheering him on to wanting to kill him pretty quickly. Even killing a noblewoman. I'd suggest just slowing things down just a bit. there is tension in spades here, you won't lose any it by slowing the action down.
Rather then having the crowd cheering him in one paragraph and rioting the next, I'd like to see a more gradual change in the crowd.
I'd also like to have Garrick see the actual blow that kills Karrys. Her death did seem pretty quick and deliberate. Broken necks don't just happen. I'm thinking it was really a hit and the King planned on taking her out in the confusion. If so, I don't think theres any problem with giving us a hint of that now.
Great stuff!
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Prologue: Long paragraphs and lots of details that don't get us any closer to knowing why our MC, Vardis, would throw the book on the ground. To be honest, I found all the telling details boring and started skimming, but I do have a very short attention span. You did get me interested by the end though and I liked the general idea.
Chp 1: Your style at the beginning is rather telling and passive. It's good information and it is fun, but it doesn't feel fun if you know what I mean. I think you may be describing things a bit too much and in the wrong places where it distracts from the action. It might even be effective to let the audience think Garrik is a lord and let us find out that something fishy is going on as we go. You know, less telling, more showing. But the scene has a lot of potential, and even if I don't like the wordiness, eventually you did hook me.
Chp 2: I was with you until they started talking. Lots of new words and events that I am unfamiliar with so I was quickly confused and annoyed. It isn't all that bad of tactic every once in awhile, but I felt you were over doing it. It just felt like a long info dump and honestly I wasn't very interested. I want to know what this has to do with my MCs right now, in this moment. Not a lot of history, geography or vague plans. Another problem with lots of description, is that your action gets buried. Took me a bit by surprise when the guy got stabbed because it just looked like another long description. The ending makes the whole scene seem kind of random. None of the action or conversation seemed to have anything to do with our MCs so I am probably not going to remember it. And then they leave (far too easily) without any indication of what the group planned to do with them in the first place other than ignore them while they were having an important meeting. It started out alright, but I am afraid this wasn't a good chapter for me at all. We will see about the next one.
Chp 3: I am afraid that this chapter is even worse in the beginning. You info dump about all your characters before I even have a reason to care about them. And again, you have some good stuff at the end, but there is so much build up and you seem to cut it off right when I think it is going to get good. I find that tactic very frustrating and annoying.
Chp 4: I'd watch the descriptions you use of the 'tall' 'nimble' or whatever else boy because as you seem to be in both of their heads, it gets confusing rather quickly. The line "It seems appropriate.” seems out of place, but I like that we are finally getting some real character from them. The scene with the girl and priest was good, but again it seemed far too random and out of place. When they were caught, I was wondering how they managed to find the same guards from so long ago and I wouldn't expect so much internal thought from both boys and a lot more screaming and kicking. They both seem far too eloquent and somber for street urchins, in speech and action, and it bothers me. Did you tell us about the rite of eyes before? That one concept seems more important to foreshadow than anything else so far. And I wonder why you used Dren's POV since your focus still seems to be on Garrik.
Chp 5: Lots of telliness in the beginning again. I know you want more content than style, but when you write in passive voice, tell more than you show and hit us over the head with detail it is harder to pick out character and content things because it all seems 'belch' even if I am seeing potential here and there. I don't think much of Karrys' character. She was the one that barged in so I don't see why she should have been offended by anything he said. If she really was such a delicate lady, I'd guess she'd just leave after she realized he was busy without all the fuss. And then Dren's dialogue is fairly bad as well. Since when do street urchins say 'please?' And why did they give him a mule, then try to dress him up? Those two actions seem to contradict one another. Do they want Dren there or not? Maybe you could show us more of the conflict when Garrik first tries to bring him along. I don't think this is really a good place for a flashback story of how they meet either. I liked the scene of the ball okay but I still don't care much for Karrys. I guess that she just seems too perfect and screams "I'm here to be the Love interest!" I'm also getting a huge 'Rand' and 'Matt' vibe from Garrik and Dren. Not a terrible thing, but I would work on making them more three dimensional rather than sticking so close to the troops.
Chp 7: Not much to say on this chapter. It went rather quickly and the action seemed a bit abrupt, but it was fine.
Chp 8: I liked Joeg and Jora okay, but for some reason I wasn't completely buying his whole 'freedom' speech. It was interesting, but it didn't seem to flow for whatever reason.
Chp 9: Okay, fighting time. I am terrible with these type of scenes, but I nothing stood out as 'bad.' Just moving on through.
Chp 10: Dialogue is often awkward. Try saying it out loud in your 'character voice.' Seriously, I do it all the time. And I am not buying that the Drakkin did nothing to stop their prisoners from conversing. The magic was cool.
Chp 11: You have Garrik read a sign. Can most thief/orphans read? (Interesting side note, did you know that most inns/taverns were named in the middle ages by a picture icon because most people couldn't read? Hence, the names like 'White horse' or whatever.) Not a bad chapter though.
Chp. 12 Vardis seems to be the classic 'old man' character. I didn't find the scene where he explained the magic particularly engaging, but I think your magic system has potential. I liked the scene with the puppy, maybe you could work around that some more to bring out your magic more rather than straight student/teacher format.
Chp. 13 You tell us a lot of information. I think I would be interested in seeing a lot of this play out, but I hate the history lesson. Why does he have a stallion? Rather high maintenance for a newer rider. Good break for this chapter.
Chp. 14 I would cut down some of the details on the dinner, but I liked the interactions at the beginning and end of this chapter. And yeah, for learning Garrik's age. I am finally seeing more to Dren than the Matt stand in, but Garrik is still Rand. :P
Chp. 15 I liked this chapter. Better character interaction, good magical object. Still needs some dialogue help and clear up some details, but good. I like the puppy. ;)
Chp. 16 Yea, you told me how they learned to read. Just move it up to the sign. You do emphasis the note enough that I expect something sinister to come of it. I didn't love the scene with Karrys. I really don't see why there should be such a bond between them already. Or why Garrikk likes her so much. Need more character from her. Maybe you could try to weed/combine more of the minor characters so you can do more with your MCs to make them stand out.
Chp. 17 During the Vardis discussion, I thought they would have planned something or at least discussed the possibility of 'the question.' Seems that we all knew it was going to be a train wreck so it seems strange that the characters would have done nothing to prevent it. I need more detail and emotion put into Karrys' death. And where did Dren go? Good place to end the first section though.
Okay, here we go. Overall, you're story is fine. I didn't run into any major problems or deal breakers beyond the minor annoyances I told you. But at the same time, I am finding very little to get excited about. Your writing seems rather detached and drawn out. I don't feel any great urgency with the plot or characters even with the climax at the end. I need more character, I need more tension, and I need you to root out the important details and show rather then tell so can avoid all the info dumps. So basically what I am telling you is that I like your story as an example of epic fantasy, but if you want to make it stand out from the crowd you are going to have to take a few more risks. Let your world fall a bit more to the background and let your characters shine as they shape the plot. I hope you don't see this all as major criticism, and more a challenge to take it to the next level, because I really do see some good potential.
Good job, just keep going! :)
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Great insight. I don't take it "hard" when I get it because I am asking for it and I want it to be honest or it is worthless.
I will be spending the next month (hopefully not 2) cracking this section into shape for a second draft then begin posting the next section.
Due to the many, many changes (some of which will address your citicisms) I just can't keep chugging along without making the changes as they are too many.
Thanks.
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One last thing that I forgot to mention before, and in which I agree with Frog completely: Garrik is too Rand-like. And with the whole "never cry again, I'm alone in the world with my rage" vibe from the last chapter gives him the potential(in a bad way) to become another Rand.
Can't wait to see it all in second draft though, good luck with the changes.
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I finally managed to put a finger on the thing that's been bugging me with many of your submissions, namely that the tone of your writing oftentimes doesn't exactly fit your viewpoint character. One wouldn't expect Garrik to go spouting phrases like "youthful infatuation" and the like, and those always somewhat distract from the story.
One question this chapter raised for me was why Vardis didn't simply lie to Garrik. No, you don't have Drakkin blood, the king is a liar. Problem solved, amirite? ;)
That said, this one is the best chapter by far. You made us expect a smoochy soppy love story, and then you go and kill off half of the cast. Excellent twist.
You should definitely take things slower, though. And I don't mean only the crowd's changing reactions. You should also spend some more time describing how the mob begins pushing against the guards, how they begin to cut them down, how the guards are overwhelmed, and especially how Garrik, helplessly looking on from afar, finally loses sight of Karrys.
Then he can go push his way towards her, find her dead (the absence of silly last words was quite satisfying, by the way), and then kill and maim his way out of the city (i.e. even if he only knows how to push people, have him crush a few chests or something).
Main character embracing the dark side? Love it.
Oh, on the topic of digging graves... I did dig a fairly shallow trench once, for a power cord, and that took bloody ages. So half a day is quite accurate, I'd think.
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One question this chapter raised for me was why Vardis didn't simply lie to Garrik. No, you don't have Drakkin blood, the king is a liar. Problem solved, amirite? ;)
Flo makes a good point. I'd actually wondered that as well. I forget if I brought it up.
Hmm. You might want to think a bit about how slow you want to take things. I agree that your scene as it's written could certainly stand some more description, but at the same time I think part of what makes it effect is that things like this really do happen fast. And perhaps more to the point, for the people involved, they often seem like they happen fast.
~Because writing groups just wouldn't be fun if we didn't contradict each other outright sometimes.
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One way I plan on addressing that (the lie) is to go ahead and have Vardis tell him the lie then have the King mess with that knowledge at the jusdgment making Vardis very uncomfortable in such a way that Garrik sees through the lie realizing the truth then and there.
Thanks for the input!