Timewaster's Guide Archive

General => Everything Else => Topic started by: Legion on July 19, 2005, 03:13:25 PM

Title: Riddles
Post by: Legion on July 19, 2005, 03:13:25 PM
Ok how this works is someone posts a riddle...then the first person to answer it correctly gets to post the next riddle......any one interested in this?

If so here is the first riddle....start it off easy...
You have to move a cow, a wolf and a bundle of hay from one side of the river to the other.....the problem is you can only take one of the three items over at once.  Now you can not leave the cow and the hay together because the cow will  eat it, and you can not leave the cow and the wolf together because the wolf will it the cow....so how do you do it?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock on July 19, 2005, 05:07:04 PM
Take the hay, then the wolf, then the cow? Afterwards you wonder why you're bringing a wolf in the first place.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: House of Mustard on July 19, 2005, 05:13:55 PM
Take the cow across and leave it at point B.
Take the wolf across and leave it at point B, and take the cow back to point A.
Leave the cow at A, and take the hay across to point B.
Then go back and get the cow and take it across.

I win.

Now, my riddle:  What do I have in my pocket?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Fellfrosch on July 19, 2005, 05:19:55 PM
Handses!
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on July 19, 2005, 05:43:35 PM
Quote
Take the cow across and leave it at point B.
Take the wolf across and leave it at point B, and take the cow back to point A.
Leave the cow at A, and take the hay across to point B.
Then go back and get the cow and take it across.

I win.

Now, my riddle:  What do I have in my pocket?



you got it now your turn to post one....lint?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: House of Mustard on July 19, 2005, 06:06:28 PM
I'll let someone else post, because I'm not a big riddle fan.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 19, 2005, 06:14:12 PM
If you like the raft kind of riddle, then you might like this.

http://freeweb.siol.net/danej/riverIQGame.swf    

The instructions are in Japanese, but below are the rules.

1. Only 2 persons on the raft at a time

2. The father can not stay with any of the daughters without their mother's presence

3. The mother can not stay with any of the sons without their father's presence

4. The thief (striped shirt) can not stay with any family member if the Policeman is not there

5. Only the Father, the Mother and the Policeman know how to operate the raft

6. To move the people click on them.

7. To move the raft click on the pole on the opposite side of the river.

To start, click on blue circle.

It's kind of fun, but not too difficult.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 19, 2005, 06:19:31 PM
Can I take your turn HOM?  I've always liked the following puzzle, not just because it's hard, but the answer is a bit surprising.

On Halloween, four kids, Allen, Brad, Charlie, and Diane, were dividing up the treats they had collected that night.  There were 100 candy bars, and they decided that they would use the following method to divide up the spoils.

In alphabetical order, each would propose some division of the candy. If a majority of the group agrees, the candy will be divided up that way. If the majority doesn't agree, then the one who made the proposal loses his or her vote and doesn't get anything.  They are out for the rest of the rounds.

So, assuming (and this is an important assumption) if all of the kids are selfish, but adept in logic, what division Allen propose?

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 19, 2005, 07:47:31 PM
If all of the kids are adept in Logic and Selfish, Allen should propose to give Charlie 2 candybars, Brad 0, Diane 1, and himself 97.

Reasoning:

If Allen's proposal is rejected by 2 of the others, he will be voted out.  In this case, you have a group of 3 children where any 2 form a majority.  So, the most logical thing to do would be for Brad to give himself 99 and Charlie 1, and Diane 0, seeing as if Charlie rejects the proposal, the group becomes 2 children, and a majority is impossible unless both people agree.  Seeing as how Diane, by disagreeing with Charlie, makes herself the majority (enabling herself to get 100 candybars), she will in no way agree with Charlie unless he gives her all 100.  Knowing this, Charlie understand that he has no option but to accept Anything Brad would give him (ie, 1 candybar), and if Allen were to offer him 2, this would be better yet.  Diane, knowing that if Charlie were to vote in a logical fashion betwixt him and Brad, she would get no candybars from them, and thus has an incentive to accept Allen's offer of 1.


And for the record, the other puzzle is in Chinese, not Japanese.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Entsuropi on July 19, 2005, 08:11:59 PM
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/cgi-bin/go_daily_game.pl?game_id=Cryptoquote&id=0

Game where you have to unscramble sentences. New one every day.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 19, 2005, 08:59:45 PM
Thats what I get, Jade.  Nicely done.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 20, 2005, 01:52:21 PM
It breathes, but has no life.
Consumes, but cannot taste.
Man would count it both foe and friend.


And that's my original riddle.  Actually the first I've ever come up with.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 20, 2005, 02:11:16 PM
fire! can you see the fire!

and for my next trick i'm going to steal one off the break room wall
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 20, 2005, 02:22:32 PM
I was going to guess Congress, but fire works better...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on July 22, 2005, 04:59:59 PM
Jade are you going to post if he is correct or not....if not then we should move on and someone post a new one.....
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 22, 2005, 06:36:20 PM
Oh, sorry.  I thought it was obvious.  Yes, fire is the answer.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Chimera on July 22, 2005, 11:52:05 PM
Quote
If you like the raft kind of riddle, then you might like this.

http://freeweb.siol.net/danej/riverIQGame.swf    

It's kind of fun, but not too difficult.

This is why I hate riddles/puzzles. I can never do them! As soon as you said "It's kind of fun, but not too difficult," I knew I was doomed. I never can figure puzzles out. And I can't figure out this one, either! I'm sure it is super easy, and right in front of my face, and once someone points it out I'm going to feel stupid, and these facts are totally frustrating me.

Will someone just freaking tell me how to get all the people over?!   >:( ???
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 23, 2005, 09:50:58 AM
A moth ate words, a marvelous event
I thought it when I heard about that wonder
A worm had swallowed some man's lay, a thief
In darkness had consumed the mighty saying
with its foundation firm. The thief was not
One white the wiser when it ate those words.


(it's an old Anglo-Saxon poem)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 23, 2005, 11:57:09 AM
I say move on...  :)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 23, 2005, 03:00:25 PM
you have to answer my riddle poem first!
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 23, 2005, 03:46:28 PM
Sorry!  I read the last message on the first page, and didn't reaize we had already gone onto page two.

My deepest and most humble apologies...  :)

Chimera, this is how I did it.  There are several ways, the trick is to begin and end with the cop and robber move...

SPOILER

Ok, spoilers ahead...

The arrows mean send somebody across the river, or bring them back.

 cop, robber >
< cop
 cop, boy >
< cop robber
 dad, boy >
< dad
 mom dad >
< mom
 police, robber >
< dad
 dad, mom >
< mom
 mom, girl >
< cop, robber
 cop, girl
< cop
 cop, robber>
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Chimera on July 23, 2005, 06:00:34 PM
Yup. Just as I thought. Not that hard at all, and yet it still mystified me.

I got so far as the cop and robber going over, and understanding that they were the key. But the robber couldn't be left alone with anyone, and that kept stumping me. Thanks for revealing the answer so I can feel dumb, let it pass, and move on.  :)

I think it is interesting that there are different types of cleverness (or intelligence, or whatever you want to call it). I consider myself intelligent, but there are some areas where my comprehension isn't what it could be. I'm good with words--if I read something, it is much more likely that I will understand it and recall it later. Sometimes I have an almost photographic memory. Then there are numbers. I always did well at math in school, always being put in the highest math classes, but I have a hard time visualizing large sums of money in my head--when people start talking in the thousands and millions and hundreds (like 15 hundred, which is actually one thousand five hundred), I get lost. And I have a very difficult time with foreign languages--my mind just does not seem to want to work around it. Like most people, I can read and comprehend more than I can speak. When I was younger, I had a hard time telling my right from my left. I am sure that there are other people who are weak in areas that I am strong and strong in areas that I am weak. The different areas of intelligence are interesting--there are a variety of ways to be "smart."

These types of riddles/puzzle are not my thing. But I admire those of you on the board who are problem-solvers and can figure them out.

Okay, that's enough philosophical philosophizing from me for the day.  :P
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 23, 2005, 09:08:23 PM
Saint E, what exactly are we solving for with your riddle?  The thief?  It seems like it could be a moth, but seeing as that's in the riddle, that's not likely to be the answer...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 23, 2005, 09:13:59 PM
it also says a "worm"
What creature is he talking about.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 23, 2005, 09:20:42 PM
Part of it may be that the parsing is strange in modern English, but I'm having difficulty understanding it if this creature is something other than a moth or bookworm... but considering the fact that the riddle itself includes the words "moth" and "worm", I'm disinclined to think that those are the answer.

Is "swallowed some man's lay" metaphorical?  I guess, considering Anglo-Saxon society, it probably ought to be...

This will take some thought.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 24, 2005, 02:09:56 AM
I would guess it's a play on words.  So I would guess bookworm, or something.

Chimera,  there is a puzzle that often gets sent around and usually the claim goes something like, "this puzzle stumps adults, but ask any kid and they will tell you the answer."  The puzzle is then posed:  What is greater than God, worse than the devil, rich men need it, poor men have it, if you eat it you will die.

The tendency is for adults to look at the whole picture and try to come up with some object that fits all the criteria.  But when you ask a child (sometimes), they get hung up on the first question.  They don't even think about the other questions.  What is greater than God?  Nothing.  And then you realize that 'nothing' fits in the rest of the puzzle.  

You are right, intelligence is an interesting thing.  We often allow our schemata to get in the way of things.  

*Steps off philosophy box*
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 24, 2005, 08:53:41 AM
yeah, the poem is metaphorical when it refers to moths and thieves. the answer is bookworm. It's not the best riddle, imo, but it's a poetic one. Your go Firemeboy.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 24, 2005, 04:50:09 PM
I said bookworm first, but I figured that would be too obvious.

Oh well.  Go ahead, Firemeboy.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 24, 2005, 05:33:24 PM
This is likey a 'chestnut', but a good one if you haven't heard it before.

You are in the basement of an old home.  There are three switches on the wall, and one of them turns on a lightbulb up in the attic.  How many trips would you need to take before you can state for sure which switch turns on the light (assuming that at least one of them will).

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 24, 2005, 06:24:15 PM
If you liked/hated the river one, you'll like/hate this one too...

http://www.foon.co.uk/farcade/hapland/
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 24, 2005, 10:56:06 PM
I went with firemeboy because he stated it as an actual answer, while you seemed to be holding back on proposing that one.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 25, 2005, 03:01:25 AM
True.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on July 25, 2005, 11:59:10 AM
Quote
This is likey a 'chestnut', but a good one if you haven't heard it before.

You are in the basement of an old home.  There are three switches on the wall, and one of them turns on a lightbulb up in the attic.  How many trips would you need to take before you can state for sure which switch turns on the light (assuming that at least one of them will).




1
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 25, 2005, 02:02:44 PM
yep
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Chimera on July 25, 2005, 02:05:19 PM
What?  ??? Why is it only one if there are three switches? Is that because you can have one person in the attic on a cell phone with the person in the basement, and they tell which switch it is? But maybe that would be no trips, I don't know...

I need to stop reading this thread. It just frustrates me.  :P
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 25, 2005, 02:10:02 PM
HOw does that work? What if you flip one of the two that doesn't turn it on?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on July 25, 2005, 02:16:42 PM
The reason I guessed one, and it was a guess, is assuming that there are 3 floors (basement ground floor, and attic) I person can flip 2 of the three switchs.  If the basement light comes on you now know what one that is.  If not then you know that the two switches are for the ground floor and the attic, so you switch one of the two (that is not the basement switch) to the opposite of the other and then walk up.

this should be easy....
a group of strangers were in a room with 6 chairs, a table, and 53 bicycles  why did one guy shoot the other, and why did everyone else let him?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 25, 2005, 02:19:48 PM
I'm not satisfied with that, there's nothing in the riddle that says each switch controls a different floor's lights. ie, why would one turn on the ground floor and the other the basement? That material you have to bring to the riddle, and may or may not be true.

the bicycles are Bicycle playing cards, and the dead guy was cheating by bringing an extra card.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on July 25, 2005, 03:42:00 PM
Like I said I guessed the answer and I just wrote why I guessed what I did, also you are right you're up.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 25, 2005, 03:57:05 PM
That is NOT the correct answer...  But a good guess.  :)  There is only one light up in the atic.

Do you want me to answer my own?  Or do people want a second shot at it?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 25, 2005, 05:08:05 PM
ah, see, he thought your "yep" meant yes, 1 was right.

if not, then I guess 2, max. turn one switch, run up. if it's not on, then it's one of the other two, so flip another switch, run up, if it's on, than it's the one you just switched. If it's not on, then it's the one you didn't switch.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 25, 2005, 06:01:08 PM
Sorry, I'm still not being clear.  1 is correct, but the reasoning behind how it was proposed was incorrect.

So, you know that one is the answer, but how would you do it?

You know, the fact that it is an attic might be throwing some people off because it can take a while to get from one to the other.  This is a well laid out home where you can get from the basement to the attic in roughly 5 seconds.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 25, 2005, 06:10:37 PM
I can see how it could be "minimum =  1", but not "maximum = 1"

Unless the switches are labeled, or you can see the attic light from the basement, in which cases you wouldn't need any trips to determine.

Ah!  I think I've got it.

1 of the switches is the basement light switch.  So you really just have to find out which out of 2 it is (thus requiring 1 trip).

Or, alternatively, 1 of the 3 switches is a general "power" (circuit breaker) sort of switch for the whole house.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 25, 2005, 06:20:10 PM
Nope, two of the switches do absolutely nothing.  The third one turns on the light but you cannot see it from where you are.  You must go up to the attic to veryify that it is on.

However, there is a method to use that ensures you get it right every time in only one trip.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 25, 2005, 09:32:25 PM
I don't see how it's possible to isolate the switch which turns on the attic light by yourself with only one trip.

You're going to have to spill the beans, eh?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 25, 2005, 09:36:43 PM
I can't spill the beans right out!  ;)  How about a hint.  

Aloe Vera may be needed in figuring out which switch is which...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2005, 10:10:24 AM
What you can do its take your 1st trip p to the attic with a saw and cut a whole in the floor then on your way down from the attic cut another whole on the second floor under the first one, then when you get back the the switchs you can flip them all till you see the light go on..... ;D


Or if its an old house, the attic entrance is right near the staires to the basement, which means that from the basement you can see up to the attic, the only trip you have to make it to open the door to the attic.  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 26, 2005, 11:23:30 AM
The answer is ZERO. You stay in the basement while your buddy goes up to the attic. You switch the switches one at a time and he calls down saying "it's still off" or "it's on now."
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 26, 2005, 11:51:51 AM
Another clue...

If there were only two bulbs, the soulution would be easy; you turn one switch on then go upstairs.  If the bulb is on, you know that is the switch, if it is not, you know it's the other one.  So really you can figure out two of them, you only need a way to figure out the third.  

There are other ways to verify if a light works than just by looking at it.  If you can figure out that method, and use that method in the same trip as when you are using the other method, then you can take care of the one, and the two.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on July 26, 2005, 12:48:30 PM
Flip two of the switches at the same time, if the light doesn't come on, then you know that it is the other switch. If the light does come on, then touch the wire that one switch is connected to. If you get shocked, it is that switch, if not, it is the other switch.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 26, 2005, 12:50:20 PM
Then it's zero
just flip them one at a time and touch the wires.
It's not exactly a safe way to do it, is it?

of course, you could always use a tester to check for resistance. That'd be safer and still do it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 26, 2005, 01:06:30 PM
No need to touch wires, but 'touching' is a step in the right direction.

Let me know if you're all bored, and I will just give you the solution.  :)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on July 26, 2005, 01:19:07 PM
Flip two of the light switches on, and leave them that way for a little way. Then turn one of the switches off. Go up and touch the light bulb. If it is on, then the switch still on is the right one. If it is off, but hot, then the switch you turned off is the right one. If it is cold, then it is the one you never touched.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 26, 2005, 01:27:51 PM
Bingo.

And you can actually do this by just flipping one of the switches.  

You turn one switch on and leave it for a good minute or so.  Then you flip it off, and turn on the second switch, then go upstairs.  If the bulb is on, you know it's the second switch.  If the bulb is hot, but off, then you know it's the first switch.  If the bulb is off and cool, you know it's the third switch.

Nicely done.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on July 26, 2005, 04:22:28 PM
That's assuming that you can reach the bulbs, and that this uses traditional bulbs, neither of which were stated as part of the riddle.  =þ

I was assuming that this building has ceilings high enough to make the bulbs out of reach.  And if it only takes 5 seconds to get from the basement to the attic, it would be quicker to make 2 trips than to have to get a ladder into the attic.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 26, 2005, 04:46:07 PM
:)

So, I'm not sure who is up next.  Archon solved it, but e also solved the poker one.

We could get two riddles going, just to cut down on waiting time...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on July 26, 2005, 05:09:05 PM
well I will say that my second one did not count since I did not have the reasoning right (and we spent a lot of time trying to get the reasoning) So that should make mine not count....sorry e
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 09:04:34 AM
oh, then I have to think of one.

darn.

I think this one has problems with it, but:

There's a naked woman lying recently dead, face-down in the middle of a muddy field, no tracks lead to or away from her, or anywhere near her. Her dead hand clasps a broken stick.

What is the story of her death? (you are permitted to ask questions to get more details).
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: JP Dogberry on July 27, 2005, 09:48:52 AM
The broken stick was a walking stick. It broke as she fell into the mud when she died. She died from a huge frozen spear of, err, toilet liquid expelled from an overhead plane.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 10:08:00 AM
no, on pretty much all counts. There are no tracks, so she obviously wasn't walking somewhere.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: JP Dogberry on July 27, 2005, 11:03:14 AM
She walked without leaving tracks. Duh.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 27, 2005, 12:00:58 PM
Firemeboy, I gave a correct (and much simpler and more likely to be used in real life) answer for your riddle. Just because an answer someone gives isn't the one you had in mind doesn't mean their answer was wrong.

Anyway, what is the difference between a riddle and a logic problem? A lot of the things in this thread I would classify as logic problems, not riddles.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 12:25:46 PM
most of them are logic problems, actually.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 12:29:10 PM
e

Did the woman fall out of the sky?
Was the woman recently swimming?
Is the woman a human? or just a 'female'?
Is the stick used for walking?
Is the stick made out of wood?
Did the stick cause her death?
Did she die from drowning?
Did she die from the results of a fall?
Was she murdered?
Is this too many questions?
How about now?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 12:48:34 PM
Quote
e

Did the woman fall out of the sky?
Was the woman recently swimming?
Is the woman a human? or just a 'female'?
Is the stick used for walking?
Is the stick made out of wood?
Did the stick cause her death?
Did she die from drowning?
Did she die from the results of a fall?
Was she murdered?
Is this too many questions?
How about now?


in order:
yes
no
human
no
yes
not directly
no
yes
no
yes
still yes.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 12:56:39 PM
Was the woman sky diving?
Is the stick part of a rip cord? (maybe a wooden knob on the end, I don't know...  I've never been sky diving)
Did the woman jump out of a plane or some other flying object?
Did she fall from a higher object attached to the ground? (i.e. building, cliff, bridge).
Is the fact that she is naked important, or does that just spice up the puzzle?
Was she hanging on the stick for dear life, and when it broke she fell?
Was she paragliding?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 01:09:21 PM
Quote
Was the woman sky diving?
Is the stick part of a rip cord? (maybe a wooden knob on the end, I don't know...  I've never been sky diving)
Did the woman jump out of a plane or some other flying object?
Did she fall from a higher object attached to the ground? (i.e. building, cliff, bridge).
Is the fact that she is naked important, or does that just spice up the puzzle?
Was she hanging on the stick for dear life, and when it broke she fell?
Was she paragliding?

no
no
yes
no
the former
no
no
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 01:17:58 PM
Was it in fact a plane?
Did she jump out of the plane of her own free will?
Was she pushed or forced out of the plane?
Was the stick part of something that would help keep her from dying?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 01:20:58 PM
Was she naked when she left the plane?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on July 27, 2005, 01:35:49 PM
Was the stick broken?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 01:53:36 PM
Quote
... Her dead hand clasps a broken stick...

yes
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 01:54:37 PM
Quote
Was it in fact a plane?
Did she jump out of the plane of her own free will?
Was she pushed or forced out of the plane?
Was the stick part of something that would help keep her from dying?
Was she naked when she left the plane?

no
it wasn't a plane, but yes
no
no
yes
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 02:39:47 PM
Was the flying object gas powered (i.e. helicopter, etc)?
Was the flying object a hot air balloon?
Was the flying object a glider?
Is the broken stick longer than a yard?
Was there anybody else up in the flying object with her?
Did the flying object crash before or after the woman fell?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 03:06:44 PM
Quote
Was the flying object gas powered (i.e. helicopter, etc)?
Was the flying object a hot air balloon?
Was the flying object a glider?
Is the broken stick longer than a yard?
Was there anybody else up in the flying object with her?
Did the flying object crash before or after the woman fell?

no
yes
no
no
yes
no
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 03:13:41 PM
Was there only one other person in the balloon?
Was this person male or female?
Was the other person trying to harm the woman?
Did she jump from a very high altitude? (say over 50 feet)
Did the woman jump to escape the other person in the balloon?

So, to recap.  A woman is up in a balloon, naked, with another person.  The woman chooses to jump, and then dies as a result of the fall.  She is clutching a broken stick in her hand that is pretty small.

Is any of that incorrect?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 03:22:11 PM
Quote
Was there only one other person in the balloon?
Was this person male or female?
Was the other person trying to harm the woman?
Did she jump from a very high altitude? (say over 50 feet)
Did the woman jump to escape the other person in the balloon?

So, to recap.  A woman is up in a balloon, naked, with another person.  The woman chooses to jump, and then dies as a result of the fall.  She is clutching a broken stick in her hand that is pretty small.

Is any of that incorrect?

yes
male
no
yes
no
no
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 03:29:26 PM
Was the male naked?
Is this riddle moving into PG-13 territory?
Did the woman plan on jumping when she first got into the balloon?
Did the man jump?
Is the wooden stick just a wooden stick, or does it serve some other purpose.
Are there markings on the stick?
Is it man made (or carved or altered by man)?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 04:00:28 PM
Quote
Was the male naked?
Is this riddle moving into PG-13 territory?
Did the woman plan on jumping when she first got into the balloon?
Did the man jump?
Is the wooden stick just a wooden stick, or does it serve some other purpose.
Are there markings on the stick?
Is it man made (or carved or altered by man)?

no
I'm not sure I understand the question
no
no
the latter
sorta
the stick you mean? yes.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 04:03:19 PM
Did the stick used to be attached to the ballon (or balloon carriage)?  
Or something in the balloon?
Did she bring the stick with her on the way to the balloon ride?
Did she enter the balloon naked?

I have to admit, I'm getting nothing.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 04:07:59 PM
Was the stick a match?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 04:22:38 PM
Quote
Did the stick used to be attached to the ballon (or balloon carriage)?  
Or something in the balloon?
Did she bring the stick with her on the way to the balloon ride?
Did she enter the balloon naked?
Was the stick a match?

no
no
yes
no
yes
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 04:30:03 PM
So, we have a fully clothed female, who enters a hot air baloon with a male.  The next thing we know she is naked and jumps from the balloon on her own free will.  The balloon does not crash.

Was the woman in danger before she jumped out of the balloon?
I'm assuming that since the woman is naked, she does not have a parachute on?
Is the match unused?
Was she trying to light the burner on the hot air balloon?
Did she take off her clothes to lighten the load of the balloon?
Did the woman think they were still on the ground when she jumped?
Did the woman know she would die when she jumped?

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 04:32:31 PM
Quote
Was the woman in danger before she jumped out of the balloon?
I'm assuming that since the woman is naked, she does not have a parachute on?
Is the match unused?
Was she trying to light the burner on the hot air balloon?
Did she take off her clothes to lighten the load of the balloon?
Did the woman think they were still on the ground when she jumped?
Did the woman know she would die when she jumped?

yes
no, she does not
yes
no
yes
no
yes
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 04:39:12 PM
Ok, I'm guessing the balloon was going down.  She tries to light the burner, but the match is 'broken' (possibly wet?)and won't light.  She took off her clothes to help lighten the load.  She loves the male in the balloon, so to save him she sacrifices herself by jumping.

If that is not the whole story...

Is it raining?

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 04:55:42 PM
it's not. You've got the information about the match wrong. note the answer to the question about whether she was trying to light the burner.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 05:17:05 PM
Is the matchstick broken in half?
Would the match light if somebody else struck it?
Is it important that the field in which she lies is 'muddy'?
Are the fields around her also muddy?
Did she break the match?
Did the man break the match?

You mentioned that the woman was in danger before she jumped.  Did that danger stemp from the balloon crashing?
Is the male in the balloon related to her?  Does she love him?  
Was she trying to light something on fire before she jumped?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 27, 2005, 05:26:33 PM
Quote
Is the matchstick broken in half?
Would the match light if somebody else struck it?
Is it important that the field in which she lies is 'muddy'?
Are the fields around her also muddy?
Did she break the match?
Did the man break the match?
You mentioned that the woman was in danger before she jumped.  Did that danger stemp from the balloon crashing?
Is the male in the balloon related to her?  Does she love him?  
Was she trying to light something on fire before she jumped?

yes
yes, if they had the right end, obviously.
not as to why she died.
yes
no
yes
yes
yes yes
no
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 05:36:00 PM
Is the man still alive?
Was the man trying to light something?  
Was he trying to light the burner?
Was there a second match?  
And she drew the 'short straw' (or match as the case may be)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 27, 2005, 05:36:58 PM
Ok, the balloon is going down.  Somebody has to jump.  The man takes two matches, breaks one, and then the woman chooses the short match.  She is the one who has to jump.

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 28, 2005, 09:23:31 AM
there, you've got it
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: JP Dogberry on July 28, 2005, 09:30:30 AM
I still say it was the urine spear.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 28, 2005, 09:51:24 AM
and I still say you're retarded.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on July 28, 2005, 12:03:31 PM
I still don't get why she's naked.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 28, 2005, 12:17:12 PM
they both removed their clothes in an attempt to lighten the load.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 28, 2005, 01:07:48 PM
I asked if the man was naked, and you said no.  :)

Ok, I love those kind of 'lateral' puzzles.  This one is a 'chestnut', but still fun if you haven't heard it.

A man walked into a bar and asked for a drink.  The bartender stared at him for a moment, pulled out a gun, and pointed it at the man.  The man looked at the bartender for a moment, said thank you, and walked out.

What just happened?

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 28, 2005, 01:24:40 PM
uh... that was a typo...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on July 28, 2005, 03:25:08 PM
The man was an alcoholic and knew that he could not resist the addiction, so he asked the bartender to force him away from the only place he could get alcohol.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on July 28, 2005, 05:04:48 PM
Why couldn't he go to another bar?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 28, 2005, 05:08:12 PM
Quote
The man was an alcoholic and knew that he could not resist the addiction, so he asked the bartender to force him away from the only place he could get alcohol.
  Nope.

e, is that a question for me?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on July 28, 2005, 05:12:28 PM
It was a small town, SE.

Firemeboy, are we allowed to ask questions on this one?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 28, 2005, 05:49:02 PM
Yes, sorry.  That is what I mean by 'latteral puzzle'.  Ask away...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on July 28, 2005, 06:00:32 PM
Did the gun shoot bullets?
Did the bartender and the man know each other previously?
Was the bar a speakeasy?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 28, 2005, 06:05:18 PM
Quote
Did the gun shoot bullets?
 Yes, it was a real gun, but the bartender didn't actually shoot the man.
Quote
Did the bartender and the man know each other previously?
 No
Quote
Was the bar a speakeasy?
no
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on July 28, 2005, 11:14:29 PM
The man who walked into the bar had the hiccups and he wasn't expecting the gun, so it scared his hiccups away, thus he left because he now didn't need a drink.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 29, 2005, 02:10:22 AM
Yep.

The man walked into the bar and asked for a glass of water.  The bartender noticed the man had hiccups, and decided to help him by scaring him with the gun.  The man was indeed frightened, and then realized that his hiccups were gone.  He thanked the bartender and left.

I take it you've heard that one before?  :)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on July 29, 2005, 02:20:33 AM
I have. But I didn't see anything about not answering if you've heard it before, so let me know if you want to make that a rule.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 29, 2005, 03:51:09 AM
No, I don't care...  It usually just takes a few questions before...

You're up with the next puzzle.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 29, 2005, 03:55:05 AM
No, I don't care...  It usually just takes a few questions before somebody solves it.  But it is a chestnut, after all...

You're up with the next puzzle.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on July 29, 2005, 10:39:00 AM
A murderer is condemned to death. He has to choose between three rooms. The first is full of raging fires, the second is full of assassins with loaded guns, and the third is full of lions that haven't eaten in 3 years. Which room is safest for him?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: 42 on July 29, 2005, 10:44:01 AM
Quote
A murderer is condemned to death. He has to choose between three rooms. The first is full of raging fires, the second is full of assassins with loaded guns, and the third is full of lions that haven't eaten in 3 years. Which room is safest for him?


Um...the room with the lions cause they all died of starvation years ago.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 29, 2005, 06:28:34 PM
What were the people in the balloon doing? Escaping from East Germany? I saw a cool movie where this family escapes from East Germany in a balloon...

The whole "jump so the balloon doesn't crash" thing is about the stupidest thing I've heard all week... If a balloon is going down, so what? Land it and walk!

...

What's a "chestnut" anyway?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on July 29, 2005, 07:43:02 PM
I saw that movie too.  Disney put it out.  A heart warming show about illegal immigrants.  :)

A chestnut is a riddle that everybody has heard of before.  It's a 'classic'...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on July 29, 2005, 09:52:31 PM
Quote


Um...the room with the lions cause they all died of starvation years ago.


Correct, obviously.  ;D
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 02, 2005, 11:38:59 AM
42 your up........

Should we make a rule on how long to give people to respond?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 02, 2005, 11:47:14 AM
Let's pick something really arbitrary, like 19.38 minutes.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 02, 2005, 12:39:55 PM
how about they have 2.5 days to post?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: 42 on August 02, 2005, 12:49:12 PM
Sorry, it took me so long to respond...I guess.

Here on earth it is true, yesterday is always before today; but there is a place where yesterday always follows today. Where?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 02, 2005, 12:54:26 PM
The dictionary.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 02, 2005, 01:57:48 PM
The encyclopedia...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: 42 on August 02, 2005, 02:04:51 PM
Quote
The dictionary.


Yes, it was that easy.

The encyclopedia? That would be an interesting encyclopedia. Just what would an entry for "tomorrow" look like.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 02, 2005, 02:20:48 PM
What have I got in my pockets?

no, really, I'm thinking, I'll get ya one later today
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 02, 2005, 02:26:21 PM
HOw about this one:

Five hundred begins it, five hundred ends it,
Five in the middle is seen;
First of all figures, the first of all letters,
Take up their stations between.
Join all together, and then you will bring
Before you the name of an eminent king.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 02, 2005, 02:35:33 PM
King David?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 02, 2005, 02:37:11 PM
yeah, but how about you explain it for our listening audience today :D
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 02, 2005, 02:43:24 PM
Quote
HOw about this one:

Five hundred begins it, five hundred ends it,
Five in the middle is seen;
First of all figures, the first of all letters,
Take up their stations between.
Join all together, and then you will bring
Before you the name of an eminent king.


Explanation:
D is the Roman numeral for 500
V is the Roman numeral for 5
I stands for the first, like in John Paul the 1st would be  
         John Paul I
A is the first letter in the alphabet
Their for A and I go between the two d and the v
And in the Catholic Religion David was a great and high  
           king.

Thank you Catholic schooling

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 02, 2005, 03:38:35 PM
Now my riddle....

There are 366 identical coins.
Each of them has the same weight except one is slightly heavier.
Using only a balance scale, how could you get out the different one using a scale 6 times only?
Balance scale weights two objects against each other and lets you know which is heavier.


Now my riddle....

There are 366 identical coins.
Each of them has the same weight except one is slightly heavier.
Using only a balance scale, how could you get out the different one using a scale 6 times only?
Balance scale weights two objects against each other and lets you know which is heavier.

I want a full answer, show all possibilities
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 02, 2005, 04:12:57 PM
Make three piles of 122 coins. Weigh two against each other (use #1). if one is heavier, it's the pile you want. If not, it's the third pile. you've narrowed it down by a third
cut into two piles of 41 and one pile of 40. Weight the piles of 41 against each other (#2). The heavier pile has the coin. If they balance, it's the pile of 40.
make two piles of 20 (if you have one left over, that's fine). Weigh them against each other (#3). The heavier pile has it. If they balance, then you had a coin left over and you're done. Other wise you're down to 20 coins.
Split into two piles of 7 and one pile of 6. Weigh the piles of 7 against each other (#4). The heavier pile has it. If they balance, the pile of 6 has it.
split it into two piles of 3 and a pile of 1. Weigh the piles of three against each other (#5). The heavier pile has the coin in it. If they balance, the coin left out is it and you're done.
At this poing you're either done or have 3 coins left. Weigh two of the coins against each other (#6). the heavier coin is it. If they balance, the odd coin out is it. Either way you're done in 6 weighs.


But it only takes one more weigh to split it in half. each time, sometimes with an odd one out.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 02, 2005, 05:55:22 PM
Quote
The encyclopedia? That would be an interesting encyclopedia. Just what would an entry for "tomorrow" look like.


Something like this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow

:)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 02, 2005, 06:17:14 PM
wow that was faster then I thought....your right
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 04, 2005, 09:49:57 AM
E you are right so its your turn to post
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 04, 2005, 11:40:19 AM
yeah yeah yeah. Give me a minit, will ya?

anyway:

Because cigars cannot be entirely smoked, a hobo who collects cigar butts can make a cigar to smoke out of every 5 butts that he finds. Today, he has collected 25 cigar butts. How many cigars will he be able to smoke?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 04, 2005, 12:39:10 PM
He can make 5 whether or not he will smoke them is a different story.....
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 04, 2005, 01:12:06 PM
that is not correct.

I mean, come on. You actually thought I was going to give you a simple division problem?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 04, 2005, 02:26:32 PM
I figured it was worth a try......meh

Question about the riddle, is he using any butts that were found on different days?
and
do you want to know how many he smoke on that day he found 25 butts?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 04, 2005, 02:35:42 PM
6
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 04, 2005, 02:36:33 PM
He has 25 cigar butts, so he makes 5 cigars.  Then he smokes them, hacks up a lung, and is left with 5 cigar butts.

Using these, he makes one more cigar.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 04, 2005, 03:14:33 PM
firemeboy is correct. I wanted to know just what it says. How many CAN he smoke that day, tops.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 04, 2005, 03:29:24 PM
Ok, this is a fun little word game.  I'm going to give you a series of words, in no particular order.  Three of those words are related by a word you have to come up with.  For example.

foot
room
fire

Those three words can all be tied together with the word ball.

football
ballroom
fire ball.

The word that ties them together can be placed in front of, or behind to make sense.

I'm going to give you 27 words.  when you find the right words for all of them, you will be left with 9 words.  Those 9 words can be cut down to three, and then finally you will have one word.

Make sense?

I'll post the words in the next post.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 04, 2005, 03:32:50 PM
Level 1:

victory
school
game
bike
man
home
park
bus
view
tour
line
solid
snow
trail
special

Used:
cold
point
radio
flower
stare
entry
atlas
work
life
train
age
hog
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on August 04, 2005, 11:04:18 PM
Is that list of words already seperated into groups of three, e.g. the frist three then the next three, etc., or do we have to match them as well?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 05, 2005, 12:29:16 AM
You have to match them as well...  :)

And I should mention, I'm not looking for one person to solve the whole thing.  You can just start guessing on the first sets.  I'll keep track of who solves the most, and that person can do the next riddle.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 05, 2005, 09:40:15 AM
In that case here are some sets that may or may not work....not to sure if I am doing this right but here it goes
School Day
Special Day
Work Day

Hard Point
Hard Game
Train Hard

Man Made
Home Made
Made Solid

Military Victory
Military Tour
Military life

Blank Entry
Blank Stare
Blank Atlas
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 11:10:41 AM
what about versions of word? are they all two word phrases? Or can "of" be inserted?"

also, will you tell us which ones are right?

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 11:38:12 AM
got a different list of 8
I have several that I"m not sure about, but if you tell me what's wrong, I'm sure I can get it pretty quick

National Park
National game
National Atlas

radio station
bus station
train station

point break
work break
line break

Solid Stone (ice works just as well for these three)
Stone Cold
stone age

hog wild
wildflower
wild man

rough view
rough entry
rough trail

school education
special education
home education


and legion's
Military victory,
military  tour
military life
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 12:08:21 PM
played with it, new set, using all words

Complete victory
complete view
complete work

stone cold
solid stone
stone age

National tour
national game
national atlas

radio station
train station
bus station

point break
break stare
line break

wildflower
wild life
hog wild

rough entry
rough man
rough trail

special education
home education
school eduatoin

snow path
park path
bike path
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 05, 2005, 01:06:38 PM
Pretty good.  You've found a few of them.  I'm going to say that if you get two out of three, I'm going to declare it right, and give you the third, rather than make you go back and try to figure out what the correct third is...  

Blank (point, stare, entry) - Legion
Station (radio, work, train) - e
Stone (atlas, cold, age) - e
Wild (life, flower, hog) - e

So, I'm going to go back and update the list of words, taking out the ones that are complete.  That should narrow the list down, and help out a bit.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 05, 2005, 01:11:31 PM
Oh, and there is no need to use 'of' in anything.  Just the two words.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 05, 2005, 01:16:13 PM
I want to say

Big with a lot of them works......I will say

Big Park
Big School
Big  victory
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 01:30:04 PM
Yeah, but that would be lame, imo.

Ball park
snow ball
ball game

school boy
bus boy
home boy? (j/k)


also, I've never heard of a stone atlas. What the heck is that?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 05, 2005, 01:32:31 PM
????......Firemeboy said you were the one who came up with stone atlas, shouldn't you know what it is?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 01:33:20 PM
tour guide
trail guide
guideline
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 01:47:17 PM
Mountain View
Mountain bike
Mountain man
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 05, 2005, 01:51:25 PM
Flameboy?  :)

http://www.bodyresults.com/S2stone.asp

e got two of the three right, but not atlas stone.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 01:52:45 PM
very strange.

ANy of my recent guesses correct?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 03:01:45 PM
ok, how's this for the remaining words.

Campaign victory
special campaign
campaign trail

mountain view
mountain bike
mountain man

home city
city school
city tour

solid-state
state park
state line

late snow
late game
late bus

(note that the state and city ones are largely interchangeable: home state, state school, solid-state and city park, city line, and city tour are possibilities, etc, etc)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 05, 2005, 03:25:22 PM
Yeah, they're interchangeable now, but you have to have the right one for it to make sense in round two.

You nailed State.

state (line, park, solid) - e
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 05, 2005, 03:27:41 PM
 Level 1:

victory  
school  
game  
bike  
man  
home
bus  
view  
tour  
snow  
trail  
special

Used:
cold  
point  
radio  
flower  
stare  
entry  
atlas
work  
life  
train  
age  
hog
park
line
solid

Blank (point, stare, entry) - Legion
Station (radio, work, train) - e
Stone (atlas, cold, age) - e  
Wild (life, flower, hog) - e
State (line, park, solid) - e
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 04:38:45 PM
ugh... tell me if any of these are right:

Lake home
lake view
lake trail

bus route
snow route
bike route

night man
night game
night school
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 05, 2005, 05:04:17 PM
winter home
winter snow
winter game
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 05, 2005, 05:42:01 PM
Nope...

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 08, 2005, 10:49:16 AM
Bloody victory
Bloody man
Bloody trail
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 12:27:09 PM
nope...

As a hint, if you want me to group them into the correct groups of three, let me know.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 12:54:56 PM
I'm psending a little too much time on it here at work, I'd appreciate the hints so we can get through it to the next level :)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 01:12:30 PM
What else is work for, if not to waste time on the Internet...

But ok, here you go.  I'll go even further by letting you know if the word goes before or after.

snow ___
school ___
___ game

home ____
special _____
____ man

bus ____
bike ____
victory ____

____ trail
____ tour
____ view
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 08, 2005, 02:30:24 PM
beautiful trail
beautiful view
beautiful tour
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 02:39:42 PM
So close...  What is another word for beautiful?  Especially when describing views...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 02:39:44 PM
I'm guessing

home made, made man, and special made
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 02:42:43 PM
that "victory" one has been a thorn in my side for quite a while. victory lap? Victory parade? victory ride? I'm totally lost here man.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 02:43:49 PM
oo! oo!
scenic view, scenic path, scenic trail.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 02:49:48 PM
school board
snow board
board game
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 08, 2005, 03:27:30 PM
darn you e....... I think you got those last 2......  >:(
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 04:22:44 PM
Indeed...  Senic and Board are correct.

Level 1 is complete.  See below for level two.

Blank (point, stare, entry) - Legion
Station (radio, work, train) - e
Stone (atlas, cold, age) - e  
Wild (life, flower, hog) - e
State (line, park, solid) - e
board - (snow, game, school) - e
scenic - (view, path, trail) - e
delivery - (man, home, special) -e
Mane - (bus, bike, victory) - Legion
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 04:39:44 PM
well, that "victory" set is still kicking me in the teeth, but I'm guessing workman, homework, and school work
I don't like that guess, since work is on the original list, but still.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 08, 2005, 04:45:11 PM
 home grown
special grown
grownman
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 04:45:14 PM
The victory may be throwing you...  And they probably only have the bus ____s and bike _____s in larger cities.

A clue on the other one.  Think Mr. Rogers (although it's technically not 'special', it's 'speedy')

Ok, that last one wasn't a hint, that was a dead give away.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 04:53:51 PM
special delivery!

(You're that landshark, aren't you?)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 05:08:55 PM
landshark?

Delivery is correct.  I'll update the above post.

Almost done.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 08, 2005, 05:13:17 PM
Bus Lane
Bike lane
Victory lane
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 05:19:54 PM
it's an SNL/John Candy reference. I deserve extra credit for it
victory lane is a phrase? I've not heard it. Victory Lap, but busses don't normally do that. Victory celebration, or party? what would a bus party be?

victory class? victory square? victory garden? I mean, I jsut don't even know.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 05:26:08 PM
Lane is correct.  

Victory lane is more of a racing term.

http://www.bodydynamicsracing.com/glossary.htm#V

Not too common, but you're done with round one.  Feel free to guess on round two.  Here they are in alphabetical order.

blank
board
delivery
lane
scenic
state
station
stone
wild
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 08, 2005, 05:31:42 PM
man, that one and Atlas ball. *grump*
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 08, 2005, 05:32:25 PM
Ok heres the first attemt at Level 2
Police Station
Police Lane
State Police
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 05:36:09 PM
Quote
man, that one and Atlas ball. *grump*
 :)  Hey, if you don't learn anything from a riddle, then it's a sucky riddle.

Think of the new information you now have to use around the water cooler.

e - "So, does anybody else here own an atlas ball?  If you need one, I know how to make them."

Quote
Police Station
Police Lane
State Police


Good guess, but no.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 08, 2005, 05:42:10 PM
Stone Prison
State Prison
Prison board
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 08, 2005, 05:46:41 PM
Nope.  Here is the grouping.

Wild
Station
Lane

Delivery
State
Scenic

Stone
Board
Blank
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 09, 2005, 10:58:18 AM
Delivery route
scenic route
state route (66, where you can get your kicks!)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 09, 2005, 11:07:37 AM
blank paper
paperboard
paper stone (a material used in counter tops)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 09, 2005, 11:14:57 AM
wild fire
fire station
fire lane
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 09, 2005, 12:12:17 PM
E if you just got all three I will be soooooooooo pissed...........but they sound like good guesses
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 09, 2005, 12:21:28 PM
No need to be pissed.  He only got two.  :)

fire (wild, station, lane)  - e
route (delivery, state, scenic) - e

Last one in this group.

stone, board, blank
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 09, 2005, 12:31:44 PM
cardboard
blank card
stone card
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 09, 2005, 12:49:58 PM
nope...

One of the words ends up dealing with technology, or music, depending on how you look at it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 09, 2005, 02:15:25 PM
message board
Stone message
blank message
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 09, 2005, 02:29:57 PM
Nope...

When you add the word to one of them, you will find out that you are using one right now.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 09, 2005, 03:02:37 PM
oh, duh....
keyboard
stone key
blank key
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 09, 2005, 03:51:06 PM
Well, keystone, but yes.  

key (stone, blank, board) - legion.

So, the last level.

Fire
Route
Key

Do you need me to group them?  *guffaw*
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 09, 2005, 03:52:12 PM
I reckon that's probably "Keystone" rather than stone key.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 09, 2005, 04:08:24 PM
*sigh*
this isn't it, but I thought I'd through it out there till I think of something better

keyhole
fire hole
route hole (part of window blinds)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 09, 2005, 04:26:18 PM
fire emergency
emergency key
emergency route.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 09, 2005, 04:29:44 PM
fire escape
escape key
escape route
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 09, 2005, 04:38:56 PM
Escape it is.

Congratulations e, you're up.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 09, 2005, 04:57:34 PM
wow three guess before I even found out what the third lvl was....either way nicely done e, and firemeboy that was cool, I enjoyed it
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 09, 2005, 05:19:56 PM
yeah, well, I was off doing real work while you were figuring out the last of level two. I obsessed a little too much over that puzzle.

I'll give you a riddle soon as I think of a good one.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 11, 2005, 04:05:43 PM
I've got a quickie if you need more time to ponder...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 11, 2005, 04:23:48 PM
its been 2 days I say go for it
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 11, 2005, 04:29:55 PM
oh, yeah, I was supposed to do this. Yeah, go ahead. I'm busy working on my server because it's finally working.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 11, 2005, 04:35:12 PM
I would say a new rule should be inplace, if a person takes more then 2 days to post a riddle when its there turn, it goes back to the person who had it last.....sound good?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 11, 2005, 04:43:40 PM
good enough for me.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 11, 2005, 04:45:41 PM
I'm thinking we could even be 'looser' than that.  I say people just post whenever, I think it would be fun to have 5-6 open puzzles at a time.  If you don't happen to log on at the right moment, you miss out, then it's mostly just waiting for new puzzles.

Anyway, on to my puzzle.

As you may have noticed, a digital clock displays the time through a series of 'bars'.  If all the bars are displayed, then you have an 8.  There are 7 bars that make up this 8.  A number 1 is made up of two bars, both vertical on the right hand side.  If you add one more bar across the top, you get a 7.  Does that make sense?

Ok, so...

What time is it when the clock is displaying the least amount of bars?  How many bars are there?

What time is it when the clock is displaying the most amount of bars?  How many bars are there?

Assume normal time, not military time.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 11, 2005, 04:48:52 PM
least: 1:11, 6 bars.
more: 10:08 for 20 bars.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 11, 2005, 04:54:32 PM
do zeros display in the hour side?

11:11 (8 bars)
1:11(6 bars)  if zeros do not display...

and most could be

If with zeros
08:08 (26 bars)

without zeros
10:08 (21 bars)


EDIT: darn a second to late
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 11, 2005, 05:16:55 PM
yeah, but I counted the bars for 10:08 wrong. I think I thought 1 had only 1 bar.

In a contest, four fruits (an apple, a banana, an orange, and a pear) have been placed in four closed boxes (one fruit per box). People may guess which fruit is in which box. 123 people participate in the contest. When the boxes are opened, it turns out that 43 people have guessed none of the fruits correctly, 39 people have guessed one fruit correctly, and 31 people have guessed two fruits correctly.

The Question: How many people have guessed three fruits correctly, and how many people have guessed four fruits correctly?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 11, 2005, 05:19:25 PM
Yep...  Most clocks don't have the 0 in front of the 8 in 8:00.  And most people don't think past 8:08, so I'm duely impressed you both got it.

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 11, 2005, 05:29:41 PM
Is there math involved with this puzzle?  Or is it a trick question?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 11, 2005, 05:56:22 PM
Duh.  :)

10 people got 4 right.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 11, 2005, 05:56:52 PM
0 people have guessed 3 correctly and 10 have guessed 4 correctly
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 11, 2005, 05:58:54 PM
How fast can you find out what is unusual about this paragraph? It looks so ordinary that you would think that nothing was wrong with it at all and, in fact, nothing is. But it is unusual. Why? If you study it and think about it you may find out, but I am not going to assist you in any way. You must do it without coaching. No doubt, if you work at it for long, it will dawn on you. Who knows? Go to work and try your skill. Par is about half an hour.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 11, 2005, 06:39:47 PM
There's no letter e. I got it by the middle of the second sentence.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 11, 2005, 06:54:02 PM
You're up.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 12, 2005, 10:17:01 AM
Quote
How fast can you find out what is unusual about this paragraph? It looks so ordinary that you would think that nothing was wrong with it at all and, in fact, nothing is. But it is unusual. Why? If you study it and think about it you may find out, but I am not going to assist you in any way. You must do it without coaching. No doubt, if you work at it for long, it will dawn on you. Who knows? Go to work and try your skill. Par is about half an hour.



Plus the paragraph is just awkward to say.  I am not that good with grammar, but is it grammatically correct?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 12, 2005, 02:45:38 PM
Uh... I don't really have one, but... What are the only two countries that have the letters "ate" in exact succession in their names?

That's an old one so it's probably outdated...and it's not exactly a riddle anyway, but there you go.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 12, 2005, 03:01:03 PM
Guatemala
United Arab Emirates
United States

the riddle is a little out dated there are new countries.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 12, 2005, 05:39:23 PM
Ah yes. Emirates. Yeah, that didn't exist back when Asimov used it (and he forgot about Guatemala). But it was the only thing that popped into my head. Man, I haven't read that book in over 10 years... Whichever book it was, anyway...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 12, 2005, 05:58:44 PM
My thunder comes before the lightning
My lightning comes before the clouds
My rain dries all the land it touches
What am I?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: 42 on August 12, 2005, 06:11:23 PM
Quote
My thunder comes before the lightning
My lightning comes before the clouds
My rain dries all the land it touches
What am I?


An exploding microwave.  ;D
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 15, 2005, 10:05:31 AM
Quote


An exploding microwave.  ;D



sorry for not posting all weekend, was busy.......no, but close
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on August 15, 2005, 06:51:52 PM
Quote
My thunder comes before the lightning
My lightning comes before the clouds
My rain dries all the land it touches
What am I?


A fried lightbulb.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 16, 2005, 11:13:42 AM
nope...did not thing this would be hard..meh
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on August 16, 2005, 01:35:08 PM
Heat
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 16, 2005, 01:36:58 PM
closer.....but not it
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 16, 2005, 02:10:46 PM
fire
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 16, 2005, 02:31:12 PM
no....think hotter, bigger and hawaii......dead give away here
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 16, 2005, 02:34:00 PM
A volcano!

I would have gotten this earlier had I been paying attention to the thread.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 16, 2005, 02:41:15 PM
sure you would........good guess your up
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 16, 2005, 02:51:19 PM
A candle bright in daylight
Never seen under the night
A chalice of life, where life will ne'er be
A Greek thought it Good to all who could see


Okay.

That's the 2nd riddle I've ever come up with.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 16, 2005, 03:10:32 PM
The Sun?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 16, 2005, 06:56:58 PM
Yup.

I guess I need to work on making my riddles more difficult?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 17, 2005, 09:51:47 AM
You just never know which riddles will be easy and which will be hard........

OK mine lets see............................oh ok

A female and male are found dead in a room, there is some glass and water on the ground near a table, and nothing else is out of the ordinary.  No one has entered or left the house for 1 day, how did they die?

You can ask yes or no questions only! (Ask multiple ones to speed up the process)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 17, 2005, 10:14:31 AM
was death by hanging? Was the water recently in a solid form? is there blood?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 17, 2005, 10:41:40 AM
No.No.No
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 17, 2005, 10:43:07 AM
they were fish.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 17, 2005, 11:56:57 AM
how do you go from a hanging straight to they were fish......you are correct
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 17, 2005, 12:53:37 PM
Whoa, I've missed everything!

There is not some way to have an e-mail sent to you everytime somebody posts to a thread, is there?  I've seen this done in other discussion boards.  I think it would be helpful in this thread.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 17, 2005, 01:35:26 PM
Quote
how do you go from a hanging straight to they were fish......you are correct

sudden realization over WHICH puzzle it was that I'd heard before.

Since I've already given it away, the one I was thinking of was how a guy hung himself 10 feet off the floor with no furniture around and a pool of water on the floor. He was standing on an ice block
now I have to think of another.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 17, 2005, 01:38:36 PM
lol....that would have been a good one
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: scAri on August 19, 2005, 05:38:35 PM
e, we need a new riddle...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 22, 2005, 10:41:58 PM
If nobody objects, I'll post an interim puzzle.  One meant only to entertain until e comes and give the 'official' puzzle.

A security guard is making his rounds at a hospital.  He is walking by a closed door when he hears the following.  "Frank!  Don't do it!"  Then there are three shots, a thud, and a clatter.

The guard bursts into the room and sees a dead body, a gun, lying on the floor, and three other people in the room, a minister, a doctor, and a plumber.  He walks directly to the minister and arrests him.

How did he know it was the minister?

You can ask yes/no questions if you need to.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: scAri on August 23, 2005, 08:29:49 AM
Is the minister's name Frank?  :P
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 23, 2005, 11:30:17 AM
I am guessing the killers name is Frank (AKA a man) the plumer and Doctor were my guess women and a minster(i think) has to be a man.  Therefore he is the most likely suspect.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 23, 2005, 12:53:44 PM
Legion got it.  Yes, the minister's name was Frank, but the cop didn't know that.  But he surmised that because the doctore and the plumber were women.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 23, 2005, 12:58:36 PM
sweet I will post one in a little bit, as long as E does not beat me to it....YOU HEAR THAT E....it is suppose to be your turn.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 23, 2005, 01:55:40 PM
Maybe that can be a side challenge.  See how many puzzles we get in while waiting for e.

:)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 23, 2005, 02:25:12 PM
Ok try this one
"If, having only one match, on a freezing winter  day, you entered a room which contained a lamp, a kerosene heater, and a wood burning stove, which should you light first."
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 23, 2005, 02:29:28 PM
The match.

:)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 23, 2005, 02:30:26 PM
lol, was hoping people would over look that, but your right of course
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 23, 2005, 02:33:23 PM
I'm going to assume I'm right and post a firemeboy original.  This actually happened to me.

A gardner went out into his garden on a cold November morning.  He needed to use his wheelbarrow but realized, much to his chagrin, that he had left water in it last night.  His wheelbarrow was now filled with a large block of ice.

It was a sunny morning, and the gardner really needed his wheelbarrow to be free of this ice.  But instead of putting the ice in the sun, he put the ice in the shade.  

Why?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 23, 2005, 03:14:54 PM
I am guessing that he flipped the wheelbarrow upside down.  Now the bottom of the wheelbarrow was in the sun and would warm up.  this would in turn destory the bond between the ice and the wheelbarrow freeing the wheelbarrow from the ice quicker then it would be to melt all of the ice
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 23, 2005, 04:14:41 PM
Exactly.  You're on a roll...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 23, 2005, 05:24:48 PM
wow were going to fast I can not think of another one right now.......must think harder...........POOP.  NOT AGAIN!!!! My brain is smoking again, will have to wait a little bit before I post another one.   ;D
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 10:36:55 AM
Ok how about this one........
"2 men we discovered dead in a room.  Room is completely enclosed, and has 4 beds, a table and some chairs.  On the table is deck of cards. How did they die?&#8221;

Only ask yes or no questions
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 24, 2005, 11:17:55 AM
no doors or windows? they died from lack of oxygen, although if that could still get in, dehydration and then subsequent starvation would do the same :D
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 11:55:13 AM
sorry ther is one entrance way, and 2 windows
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 01:27:50 PM
Did the men know each other?  
Were they related?
Were they playing cards?
Did they kill each other?
Were they killed by a person?
Were they killed by the same person?
Is the placement/order of the cards important?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 01:42:36 PM
Were the men shot?
Did the men stabbed.
Were the men drowned?
Were the men asphyxiated?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 02:13:56 PM
Quote
Did the men know each other?  
Were they related?
Were they playing cards?
Did they kill each other?
Were they killed by a person?
Were they killed by the same person?
Is the placement/order of the cards important?


Yes
No
Yes
No
Yes/No
No
Yes
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 02:15:43 PM
Quote
Were the men shot?
Did the men stabbed.
Were the men drowned?
Were the men asphyxiated?


No
Did the men stabbed...that just sounds funny Do you want to know were they stabbed or did they stabbed
No
No
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 02:55:19 PM
Whoops...  :)

Yes, were the men stabbed.
Were the men killed indirectly by the actions of another person? ('m trying to figure out the 'yes/no' answer.
Where they killed by a random act of nature?
Were they *ahem* playing with a full deck?
Is it important to discern the game they were playing?
Were they playing with regular playing cards?  Tarrot cards?  Uno cards?
Was anybody else playing with them?
Were they playing poker?
Did they die from loss of blood?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 02:56:34 PM
Is this room in a building?  On a ship?  In an airplane?  In a hotel?  On a train?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 03:26:00 PM
Quote
Whoops...  :)

Yes, were the men stabbed.
Were the men killed indirectly by the actions of another person? ('m trying to figure out the 'yes/no' answer.
Where they killed by a random act of nature?
Were they *ahem* playing with a full deck?
Is it important to discern the game they were playing?
Were they playing with regular playing cards?  Tarrot cards?  Uno cards?
Was anybody else playing with them?
Were they playing poker?
Did they die from loss of blood?


Yes/No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes/No/No
No
No
Yes/No
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 03:27:06 PM
Quote
Is this room in a building?  On a ship?  In an airplane?  In a hotel?  On a train?



No/No (Be more specific...hint hint)/No/No/No...you were close with one of these but I do not consider what they were in what you said.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:14:18 PM
Were they in a type of aircraft?
Were they in space?
Did the two men know that death was coming?

So the men were stabbed, but not by another person?  Is that correct?

Did the outcome of the game have to do with their death?
Were they playing poker?  21?  Solitaire?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:15:40 PM
Were the men in some kind of craft that floated on water?

Were they in a submarine?
Was this a kind of suicide pact?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 24, 2005, 04:17:14 PM
did both men die in the same manner?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 24, 2005, 04:31:45 PM
How many cards are on the table?  52?  53?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:31:52 PM
Quote
Were they in a type of aircraft?
Were they in space?
Did the two men know that death was coming?

So the men were stabbed, but not by another person?  Is that correct?

Did the outcome of the game have to do with their death?
Were they playing poker?  21?  Solitaire?


No
No
Yes
No
Yes/No/No (was yes, is suppose to be no.  I made a mistake sorry)/No
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:32:15 PM
Quote
Were the men in some kind of craft that floated on water?

Were they in a submarine?
Was this a kind of suicide pact?


No
Yes
No
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:32:27 PM
Quote
did both men die in the same manner?


No
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:32:53 PM
Quote
How many cards are on the table?  52?  53?


Has to be yes or no question/Yes (52)/No (53)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 24, 2005, 04:33:31 PM
Did one kill the other as an act of mercy, or in anger?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 24, 2005, 04:33:58 PM
52? (yes/no)
53? (yes/no)

Quote


Has to be yes or no question/Yes/No

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:34:24 PM
Quote
Did one kill the other as an act of mercy, or in anger?


Yes or no Questions please.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 24, 2005, 04:35:17 PM
That was 2 yes no questions.
Did one kill the other as an act of mercy (yes/no)
As an act of anger (yes/no)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:37:33 PM
Quote
That was 2 yes no questions.
Did one kill the other as an act of mercy (yes/no)
As an act of anger (yes/no)


Yes
No
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 24, 2005, 04:39:56 PM
Did the other man die from:
Drowning?
Suffocation?
Being blown up?
Thirst?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:40:35 PM
Quote
Did the other man die from:
Drowning?
Suffocation?
Being blown up?
Thirst?


No
Yes
No
No
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:41:03 PM
Did the winner of the 21 game stab the other person out of mercy?

Did the loser of the 21 game stab the other person out of mercy?

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 24, 2005, 04:41:56 PM
Okay, so they're in a broken Sub, they know they're going to die, and they know it wont be fun.  They play 21, and agree that the loser has to kill the winner and suffocate to death himself.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 24, 2005, 04:43:06 PM
my working theory is they played a game of 21 to see who would win and get to die a quick death. The loser stabbed the loser, and then died as the submarine, unable to rise for air, ran out of oxygen.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:43:10 PM
Wait, so it was Asphyxiation?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:43:12 PM
I am sorry If I said yes to 21 I ment to but no.....SO its a no to both and to they game being 21....sorry
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:43:54 PM
Or possibly they thought they might be rescued, but one person could last longer breathing air than if both of them did.  So they played to see who would try to hold out.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:45:18 PM
Did the men have hopes of being rescued?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:45:56 PM
But is the concept correct?  Were they playing a game to determine who would kill the other person?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 24, 2005, 04:46:29 PM
you need to re-answer this set of questions then, because if it's no, you left one out, I think (i've answered them the way I think the answer go):

Were they in a type of aircraft? (no)
Were they in space?  (no)
Did the two men know that death was coming? (yes, apparently)

So the men were stabbed, but not by another person?  (no, sorta) Is that correct? (no)

Did the outcome of the game have to do with their death? (yes)
Were they playing poker?  21?  Solitaire?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:46:51 PM
Sorry, my bad.  You did say yes, but to poker.  Is that correct?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:48:12 PM
Quote
Wait, so it was Asphyxiation?


Asphyxiation is smothing which I was under the impression of a person dening air to some one (putting a pillow over the head, and things of that nature) where as suffocation is not getting any air (type of drowning or being in an area without air.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:48:48 PM
Quote
Did the men have hopes of being rescued?


yes
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:50:19 PM
So, did one person kill the other person in the hopes that one person could last longer?

And the game determined who was to die?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:50:35 PM
Wow you guys are going to fast for my to keep up...here are the facts

One was stabbed
They were playing a card game
One died of suffocation
They are in a sub
There were hopes of resuce
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:50:53 PM
Quote
So, did one person kill the other person in the hopes that one person could last longer?

And the game determined who was to die?


Yes
Yes
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:51:39 PM
I think the words pretty much mean the same thing.  
Quote
Asphyxiation- a state of asphyxia or suffocation. Condition caused by insufficient intake of oxygen.
 But the long and short of it is that one of the men ran out of air, right?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 04:52:16 PM
So, do we need to find anything else out?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 24, 2005, 04:54:38 PM
So is my answer correct except for the 21 part?

Did someone cheat at the game?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 24, 2005, 04:55:38 PM
Quote
So, did one person kill the other person in the hopes that one person could last longer?

And the game determined who was to die?



That was the main drive behind the deaths.....wow sorry for the confusion but that started to pick up steam at the end and I had I hard time keeping up.....so Firemeboy is up now

EDIT: Jade and E where close but there was a hope of resuce so the winner killed the loser to conserve air.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 05:25:04 PM
One autumn afternoon you decide to stroll through the sprawling bushlands near your home. Puffing on your pipe, pondering some recent conundrum or riddle, you are oblivious to the outside world.

Your train of thought is momentarily broken by the oddly dark clouds appearing above you. Turning around, you see in the distance a rising wall of black smoke and wispy yellow tongues of flame creeping through the brush.

In a panic, you realize that a brush fire has cut you off from the road and safety!

A steady west wind is pushing the fire in your direction. You glance around for an escape route or shelter, but see only dried out grass, brush, and small shrubs for miles. The approaching blaze is no more than a few miles off, and will be upon your location within the hour. Everything around you will provide fast burning fuel for the fire. You are unlikely to survive in the fire long enough for the blaze to pass you by. You have no hope of outrunning the blaze.

What can you do?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 24, 2005, 05:40:25 PM
By the way, e, feel free to post your puzzle at any time.  We kind of jumped in without you.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 25, 2005, 06:31:45 AM
Destroy the grass around you.  If possible, do your own controlled burn.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 25, 2005, 09:37:26 AM
what about run the other direction......how fasst is the fire moving........do you have a phone on you.....
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 25, 2005, 11:13:40 AM
Correct Jade.  Remember, you are smoking a pipe.  Your best bet is to start a fire right next to you.  The wind will carry it away from you (just as it is carrying the fire behind you toward you).  You wait until the brush cools down and then move into the burned area.  You will be safe in this area because there is no longer any fuel for the fire to burn.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 25, 2005, 11:20:09 AM
But at the same time you have just doubled for brush fire which will now go and kill about 25 other people.....good job?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 25, 2005, 11:25:45 AM
better them than me.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on August 25, 2005, 11:07:12 PM
On the other hand, you never said how flammable the materials around you were. If you had an explosive device of sufficient magnitude, and you fed it to the fire, it might use up all of the oxygen and put out the fire. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 26, 2005, 09:15:18 AM
I think it's a valid assumption that someone out for a walk and a think, with his pipe, in a dry field, does not have immediate access to materials sufficient to make an explosive device that it would put out a fire.

Plus the resulting explosion, if sufficient for that effect, would probably also kill you.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 26, 2005, 10:01:28 AM
Or it might lead to some one killing you....I would think if any one saw a random person setting explosives that a shoot on sight command might be warrented.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 29, 2005, 04:19:48 PM
So...  Jade is up?  or e?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 29, 2005, 04:50:40 PM
Jade is up...but if you got one post one it has been long enough that he gave up his right-away for posting, so it is now open to anyone
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 29, 2005, 07:42:39 PM
I've got another interim one.

You are staying in a motel one night and your wallet is stolen from your room.  You tell the manager who promptly tells you that you must leave, seeing as how you can now no longer pay for your room.

"I will have my family send me the money", you say.  But alas, the money will not arive for 7 days.  

"If you have something to offer as collateral, then I will allow you to stay" the manager says.

You have a gold chain, but you don't really trust him.  You suspect that if you give him the whole chain he will likely take it, then kick you out anyway.  

There are 7 links in the chain, and each gold link is worth one night in the motel.  You decide that you will give him only one link per night's stay.

How many cuts do you have to make in order to have the proper number of links?

You have to back up your answer with verbiage...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 29, 2005, 09:54:02 PM
one for that day (one link, one cut)
one for day 2 (one link, second cut)
one for day 3 (one link, third cut)
one for day 4 (one link, fourth cut)
one for day 5 (one link, fifth cut)
one for day 6 (one link, sixth cut)
a) you don't need to give him one for day 7, because you'll get the money that day
b) even if the cash is a day late, it's the last link, so you don't have to cut it.

so 6 cuts.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 29, 2005, 09:54:55 PM
and uh... I'll get your a riddle soon. sorry, I'm good at working them out, jsut not coming up with them.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 29, 2005, 10:33:26 PM
I think this is just my friend being melodramatic because his ldr girlfriend stood him up, but here's the riddle he gave me:

what cuts deeper than any blade, sears the soul in the fires of hell, and crushes the spirit?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 29, 2005, 11:53:02 PM
I'm certainly not sexist enough to guess a woman...  :)

And 6 cuts is not correct, but a good guess.

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 30, 2005, 02:10:47 AM
No one told me I was up.

It almost makes me want to go post on the grumpy thread.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on August 30, 2005, 03:10:57 AM
Firemeboy, in reference to the chain, does it have a clasp?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 30, 2005, 09:01:17 AM
is this chain joined at both ends?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 30, 2005, 09:50:39 AM
Quote
what cuts deeper than any blade, sears the soul in the fires of hell, and crushes the spirit?


Betrayal
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 30, 2005, 09:55:01 AM
Quote
I've got another interim one.

You are staying in a motel one night and your wallet is stolen from your room.  You tell the manager who promptly tells you that you must leave, seeing as how you can now no longer pay for your room.

"I will have my family send me the money", you say.  But alas, the money will not arive for 7 days.  

"If you have something to offer as collateral, then I will allow you to stay" the manager says.

You have a gold chain, but you don't really trust him.  You suspect that if you give him the whole chain he will likely take it, then kick you out anyway.  

There are 7 links in the chain, and each gold link is worth one night in the motel.  You decide that you will give him only one link per night's stay.

How many cuts do you have to make in order to have the proper number of links?

You have to back up your answer with verbiage...



OK, depending on how you cut, and if you do not care about the chain (since you are cutting it I assume you do not care about it)  you can use one cut.  All you have to do is get something long enough  to cut the whole chain at once, then line it up and but.  Then all you have to do is give the guy as many as required

Jade if you want post one if you have one....please do not be grumy
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 30, 2005, 10:51:58 AM
Quote
Betrayal

Well, that's not the answer the guy had in mind when he told me, but it's a good one, and related.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 30, 2005, 01:20:27 PM
The chain is not cut at both ends, it's a chain that you can hold at one end, and the entire chain would hang down like a rope.

And you love the chain, and will likely repair it after this episode, so you want to make as few cuts (as little damage) as possible.  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 30, 2005, 02:09:52 PM
so the money comes in seven days. Have I paid for today?

If so, then there are five days to pay for, (tomorrow, day "3" day 4, day, 5, day 6) correct? If not, then there are 6 days to pay for (same list plus "today"). You need as many links as days to pay for, right? Day 7 does NOT need to be paid with links because the money will arrive that day.

You have to make as many "cuts" to remove links (assuming 1 cut = one link removed) as there are days to pay for, with a max of 6 cuts.

If you cut the MIDDLE link, though, you can pull that off and have two chains of three. That's one cut, today is paid for (assuming today isn't paid for). Then you can make 3 more by cutting the middle out of a set of three (4 days, 2 cuts). Then cut the middle out of the other set of 3. Making 7 days paid for in only 3 cuts.  

Man, I just needed to start thinking out of the box.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 30, 2005, 02:15:36 PM
You're on the right track.  You have to pay for 7 days.  On the first day the guy needs 1 link.  On the second day he needs 2 links, on the third, 3, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 30, 2005, 02:22:13 PM
so then, 3 cuts, right? Why is my scenario wrong where cutting the center link, taking it out, (leaving 1 link and two sets of 3 links) and then doing the same to the two sets (cutting hte middle one and removing the other two off of it) wrong?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 30, 2005, 02:32:02 PM
It is not wrong.  It is just not right enough...  :)  You can do it with fewer cuts.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 30, 2005, 02:39:14 PM
well, then, I give up. I'm looking at this paper clip chain and the fewest i can do it in is 3. I don't see how a cut on the second or third link would improve anything at all
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 30, 2005, 04:13:35 PM
If nobody else has a guess by end of day, I'll give a hint, and then if nobody has solved it by tomorrow, then I'll give the answer.  

And Jade, feel free to post yours, we can be working on more than just one puzzle at a time...

Maybe we could even lobby for a puzzle section?  With each puzzle in it's own thread?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 30, 2005, 04:15:27 PM
I think we'd have a ton of threads at 1 or 2 posts each in that case. I think one thread for it is more effective.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 30, 2005, 05:24:55 PM
OK assuming that the chain is a circle you can cut it in half.  This gives you a chain of 2 and a chain of 3, plus to links that are in half.  You give the guy the 2 that are together for the night you already spent there and the current night (day 1 and day 2 paid for).  On the next 2 nights you give him the cut chains (days 3 and days 4 paid for).  Now if you cut the center one off the 3 linked chain you have left you can now pay for all 7 days if need be
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 30, 2005, 10:20:33 PM
the problems with that are a) he already said it wasn't a circle, just a chain.
b) the idea is to give him one link at a time, not two at a time.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on August 31, 2005, 03:05:47 AM
Here's my pseudoriddle:

What makes a good riddle?

(Not puzzle, mind you.  Riddle)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on August 31, 2005, 12:31:42 PM
Quote
Here's my pseudoriddle:

What makes a good riddle?

(Not puzzle, mind you.  Riddle)


the question?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 31, 2005, 01:44:57 PM
Quote
the idea is to give him one link at a time, not two at a time.


Sorry, never got around to posting my hint.  You are correct in the above statement, but it could be worded a different way.  The idea is for the hotel manager to have one link the first night, two links the second night, three links the third night, etc. etc. etc.  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on August 31, 2005, 02:05:54 PM
So, what, you get him to trade back? give him one, then give him two and get the one back, then give him the one again, then give him a set of four and get back teh two and one, then give him the one. Something like that? You'd still need three cuts. I think


I suppose with two cuts you could do a chain of 4, a chain of 2, and a "chain" of 1.

(http://www.saintehlers.com/misc/images/chain.gif)

with trades backs. Each of those numbers represents a chain of that many links that the hotel guy has. Of course, this counts on him being cooperative and actually giving you links back. but still.
                                   
edit: my ascii layout looked bad, so I made a pic of it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on August 31, 2005, 11:09:21 PM
You got it, except you can do it with one cut.  Cut the third link in.  That leaves you with two links on one side, the link you cut, and the four links on the right side.

Then you do exactly as you say.

Well done.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 01, 2005, 01:09:41 AM
Fold the chain the right way, or cut it the right way, and you could get all of them separated with one cut.

Silly people.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 01, 2005, 09:15:58 AM
but if you do that, you entirely miss the point of making "as few cuts as possible." which is to damage as few of the links as possible.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 01, 2005, 12:55:02 PM
What e said...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 02, 2005, 01:11:32 PM
You are on a game show and are in the final round.  The host shows you three doors and tells you that behind two of the doors are boxes filled with bananas.  Behind the other door is a box filled with $10,000.  

You are told to pick on of the doors and decide to pick door #2.  After you pick your door, the host, as he always does, picks another door and opens it up.  In this case, he opens door number 3.  You see behind it a box filled with bananas.  You haven't seen what is behind door # one, nor do you know what is behind door #2.

The host asks you, "Would you like to switch doors?"

So, the question is, is it in your best interest to switch?  If so, why?  If not, why not
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 02, 2005, 01:40:49 PM
WOW, would not consider this a riddle, but ok.  OK well it really makes no difference whether you switch or not, you have a 50% chance of getting it right.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 02, 2005, 01:42:48 PM
That is a good guess, but incorrect...  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 02, 2005, 02:02:23 PM
I am really puzzled by this because unless you know more about the game or the game show it really shouldn't matter if you switch your guess or not.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Skar on September 02, 2005, 04:47:21 PM
I suspect that it has to do with the fact that when you made the original choice you only had a 33.3333- % chance of getting it right.  So your original choice has only a 33.333- % chance being right.  But if you switch you have a 50% chance of that being right.

So sticking gives you 33.333-%  Switching gives you 50%

Am I right?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 02, 2005, 05:22:24 PM
That would be a misrepresentation of statistics though.

Originally, you had a 33.3% chance of success
You made a choice.
One was revealed, not your choice, and that one had a 66.6% chance of not being the door you wanted. It wasn't. THat leaves you with two choices left

That means EITHER choice you make has a 50% chance of being correct. YOu are making a new decision. There are two options. One is right, one is wrong. Sure, switching has a 50% chance of being right, but staying where you are has a 50% chance of being right too. Thus switching does *not* give you an advantage. It's not dumber, but it's not smarter either.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 02, 2005, 05:27:57 PM
Skar, you are correct.  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 02, 2005, 05:37:28 PM
except that the question was "is it in your best interest" and, as I have shown, it is not. It's not AGAINST your interests, it's just not necessary.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 02, 2005, 06:38:41 PM
SE's right.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 02, 2005, 08:14:50 PM
Look at it a different way.  Let's say there are 10 doors, and you pick one.  You had a 1 in 10 chance that the door you first picked is right.  Now the hose opens 8 doors, revealing 8 boxes of bananas, and two closed doors (the one you picked, and the last door).

Which door should you pick then?  Sure, both doors now have a 1 in 2 chance of being right, but your originaly pick had a 1 in 10, while the other door has a true 1 in 2 chance.

You would be a fool not to switch to the other door, just as in this puzzle you have a better chance if you switch to the other door.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 04, 2005, 01:09:46 AM
That is completely not true. Both doors have a 50% chance to be the right door. If you have ten doors and you eliminate one, then they all have an 11% chance. Eliminate another and they all have a 12.5% chance. And so on, until the remaining two have a 50% chance. You lose.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 04, 2005, 01:40:14 AM
Archon's right.  The probability shifts every time something changes.

The original probability was for 1 of 3, or 1 of 10, not 1 of 2, which is a different equation.  Whenever something changes (ratio), so does the probability.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 04, 2005, 01:42:13 PM
Quote
The original probability was for 1 of 3, or 1 of 10, not 1 of 2, which is a different equation.  Whenever something changes (ratio), so does the probability.


No, think about it.   When you first picked that 1 in 10, it had a one in ten chance.  The fact that the rest are eliminated doesn't mean anything.   What if I held up a deck of cards and asked you to pick the jack of diamonds.  You picked one card (1 in 52 chance that you got it right, since you don't know where the jack is), then I (knowing where the jack is) turned over 50 cards, all of which are NOT the jack of diamonds.  There are now two cards left. When you picked the first card, you had a 1 in 52 chance that it was the jack of diamonds.  This last card now has a 1 in 2 chance.  You would be a fool not to switch cards.

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 04, 2005, 01:59:17 PM
No Firemeboy, that isn't the way it works. At the beginning, before any cards had been eliminated, the probability to be the jack of diamonds was the same for each card (1/52). When one card is eliminated, all of the cards still have the same probability of being the jack of spades, only now their probability is 1/51. If you continue eliminating cards, the denominator will be reduced each time, but the cards will still all have the same probability of being the jack of diamonds. The last two cards still have a 50% chance each. Think about it, the jack of diamonds is definitely one of the two cards. That means that together, the cards have a 100% probability. If there were only two cards, and one had a 50% chance, and the other had less than a 50% chance, where would the remaining percentage be?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 04, 2005, 02:31:05 PM
Yes, but think about it.  I know where the Jack of diamonds is.  You don't.  You pick 1 in 52 cards.  That card has a 1 in 52 chance.  I, knowing where the card is, remove the other 50 cards and leave one card left.  You can't say that the original card has the same chance of being the Jack of Diamonds as the 1 card that is left over...  

Here is an article describing how it works.  

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_189.html
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 04, 2005, 02:40:07 PM
Here is another way to look at it.  If you picked a card, then I took away 50 cards, we are left with two cards, one of them is the Jack of Diamonds.  If I took back both cards, mixed them up, they you are correct, there is a 50/50 chance that one of them is the Jack of Diamonds.  

But that is only if I mixed them up.  When you picked your card you had a 1 in 52 chance, or a slightly less that 2 percent.  By taking away all of the other cards except for the Jack of Diamonds, this remaining card actually has a  .98 percent chance of being the Jack.  

In other words, if we played this 'game' 100 times.  On average you would pick the Jack of diamonds twice.  The other 98 times it would serve you right to switch to the card that I picked, assuming that I always eliminate the cards that are not the Jack of diamonds.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 04, 2005, 03:12:29 PM
No, that is not the way probability works. You don't seem to be following what I am saying. If you have a deck of cards with any number of the cards in the deck (as long as the jack of diamonds is still in the deck)  the probability that each card is the jack of diamonds is ALWAYS the same. If you have 12 cards, the chance for each is 1/12. If you have two cards, the chance for each is 1/2. Mixing the cards up does nothing but changes their geographical position, which does not tie into probability in any way.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 04, 2005, 05:42:22 PM
Yes, that is the way probability works.  As long as the person knows which card is the Jack, only takes out cards that are not the jack, then it is just as I stated.  

Are you telling me that if you pick a card at random, and then I take out the other 50 cards, then 50 percent of the time the original card you pulled out will be the Jack of diamonds?

Only 2 percent of the time will your card be the Jack of Diamonds, and 98 perecent of the time the card left over will be.  It is not 50/50, as long as the 'host' knows where the card is, and removes the cards that are not the right one.

Check out the article, it's all explained in there.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 04, 2005, 07:45:11 PM
Ok, you are explaining this wrong. What the article says is that by not picking a different door, it is the same as not having the choice to pick another door. Therefore, between the two other doors, they have a 66% chance of containing the door, whereas the door you picked has a 33% chance. If the door is in the other group, which it will be 66% of the time, then the host can't eliminate it, which means that the other door represents the chances of both the other doors, which is still 66%. Therefore, staying with the door you have would have a 33% chance, whereas changing would have a 66% chance. So, in conclusion, you are right with the answer to the original question, but you were wrong as far as the math went.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 04, 2005, 10:20:05 PM
I knew I was me who was wrong all along.  Although I thought that is what I was waying with the cards...

Anyway, I don't know who got that one.  Who wants to throw another riddle out?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 05, 2005, 01:00:05 PM
look, here's where the problems in this analysis are:

You have three doors (let's keep the numbers really simple). You choose one, which has a 1/3 chance of being right. The host opens one of the others, knowing WHICH door holds the right one, he opens a wrong one. Then he offers you another chance. This becomes an ENTIRELY new probability. You are effectively choosing all over, do you switch or keep. it's the SAME, in terms of meaning, as saying "Do you want door #1 or door #2. The only confusion that comes from that is when you change it semantically. you are treating it like STAYING is NOT a choice. But it is.

Plus, let's look at numbers. You say switching has a 1/2 chance of being right. that's only HALF of the probability, and it's HALF the choices. where's the other half? Staying. If you stay, you pick the OTHER 1/2 chance.

The same goes if you increase the original number to 10 or 52. Yes, when you made the FIRST choice, you only had a 10% chance, or a (slightly less than) 2% chance. But once the others are removed, the person knowing the right answer has evened the odds to 50/50. ONE of those two is the right answer. If SWITCHING makes it 50%, then STAYING is also 50%. Otherwise, in the case of the cards, you're saying that there's a 50% chance the other card is right, slightly less than 2% chance the only you picked is right, and a 48.whatever% chance that one of the cards ALREADY REVEALED TO BE WRONG is the correct answer. An incorrect answer CANNOT be correct, by definition. and we know those answers are wrong. Thus there being  48% chance they are right is patently impossible. Thus the entire other 50% chance must lie in the card you chose already.

Switch or stay, it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 05, 2005, 06:29:15 PM
SE, look at the problem from the beginning. There are two doors that you didn't pick, and one door that you did pick. Since there is only the prize in one of the doors, that means that there is a 33% chance that the door you picked has the prize, and a 66% chance that one of the other two doors contains the prize. Remember that the door with the prize in it can't have been eliminated. So, since the prize was most likely not in the door that you picked, and it wasn't in the door that was eliminated, it is most likely in the door that you didn't pick and wasn't eliminated. There is a 66% chance that it is in the door that you didn't pick, and a 33% chance that it was in the door you picked.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 05, 2005, 07:14:23 PM
What you say is ONLY true of the initial choice. Each choice is NOT dependent on the information already gained.

Look at this example. You are given a challenge to throw heads at least once during two flips of a coin. What are the possible outcomes of two flips?
Heads, heads
tails, heads
heads, tails
tails, heads.
Thus there are four possible outcomes, and three of them have at least one heads in it. Thus you have 3/4=75% chance of succeeding
You throw once, and get tails. You still have another throw. At this point, you will never get heads/heads, so there are only three results left. So 2/3 = 66%. Right?
Wrong. The chances of getting heads ON THIS THROW are still 50%. The fact that it came up heads on the last throw has no effect whatsoever on this throw. THis throw has the same chance of coming up heads or tails, regardless of the outcome of the entire scenario. To suggest otherwise is to propose some supernatural force that tallies such contests and ensure probability over the entire series of events. Perhaps Hermes, God of Gamblers watches over you?

So let's go back to our original scenario. You have three doors. What are the possible outcomes?
door 1 is correct, door 2 is wrong, door 3 is wrong
Door 1 is wrong, door 2 is correct, door 3 is wrong
door 1 is wrong, door 2 is wrong, door 3 is right
You pick door number 2. The host reveals door3, which turns out to be wrong.
So, you have two possible remaining scenarios
Door 1 is correct, door 2 is wrong
OR
door 1 is wrong and door 2 is correct.
You are asked to make a SECOND CHOICE. This choice is between the previous two possible scenarios. We already know the third scenario is not possible. Thus by choosing between changing to the first door or staying with the second door, you have a fifty fifty chance. The original percentage has no bearing on this choice, only on the probable outcome of the entire series of events.  To suggest otherwise says that door 3 having nothing behind it indicates something about door 1 or door 2. This is not the case.

Observation may affect the observed in quantum physics, but the unobserved in a game show, unless specific provisions are made for it in the rules and the people make changes after the first door is revealed (which would be difficult to adjucate as fair, incidentally) has no affect on the location of the prize.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 05, 2005, 07:32:40 PM
http://www.grand-illusions.com/simulator/montysim.htm (only works on internet explorer)

It still doesn't make sense to my brain, no matter what the results say!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 05, 2005, 09:35:14 PM
Okay, I think we're dealing with a different problem, here.

Here's an interesting way of looking at it:

You make a choice (boxes represent chance of winning):

Your choice = [33%]

What's left = [66%]


Now, they're going to reveal one WRONG box, and it wont be yours.  66% of the time, the right answer is NOT your box.

For that 66% of the time

They reveal one box [wrong], the other box left is automatically right.  [100%]

So, you'll win 100% of 66% of the time.

The other 33%:

They reveal one of the other boxes [both of which are wrong], and the other is automatically wrong.  If you switch, you have a 0% of winning, that 33% of the time.


The whole snag to the equation, my friends, is the fact that they NEVER reveal your INITIAL choice.  So if we are to assume truly random distribution, switching will cause you to win 2/3 of the time.  It is important to note that the door being opened is not random; it will always be a) WRONG, and b) NOT YOURS.


The interesting thing is that it's not actually a game of three choices of 33% each, or two choices of 50%.  It's a game (by its "rules") where you have two choices, one is [33%], the other is [66%]

The reason for this is that revelation is NOT random in this game - whatever you pick, they wont reveal it.  If they randomly revealed any wrong box (including yours), your odds would be 50/50, thus:

Your choice [33%]

What's left [66%]

If the correct answer is in "What's Left" [66%]:
50% of the time they reveal your box [wrong], and so you have a [50%] chance of getting the right other box.

The other 50% of the time they reveal one of the other boxes [wrong], which leaves you with a [100%] chance that it's the one you pick.

If the correct answer is in "Your Box" [33%]:
They reveal one of the other boxes [wrong].  Switching would leave you a [0%] chance of winning.

So, if you always keep your box, you're going to win 33% [your box] + 16% [50% of 50% of 66%] of the time. = 50%

If you always switch, you're going to win 33% [50% of 66%] + 16% [50% of 50% of 66%]

If you always want to switch, you're automatically wrong a third of the time, and it's completely random another third (whenever they reveal your box).

If you never want to switch, you're automatically right a third of the time, and it's completely random another third (whenever they reveal your box).

What the rules of this game do, by never revealing your box, is that they take that last random third out, so it's now you have a 33% chance of winning if you keep your box, and a 33% chance of losing if you don't.


Phew.  I hope that clears things up.  Remember, they NEVER reveal the
answer.  If they did, you'd win 66% of the time.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 06, 2005, 01:34:41 AM
Quote
What you say is ONLY true of the initial choice.
 

It's all one choice.  You either stick with what you have, or go with the other 2 (9, 51, etc).  You are right, it's either one or the other, but by revealing what is behind the other door (cards), you haven't eliminated them from the equation.  They are still a part of it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 06, 2005, 02:47:27 AM
Bah, read my explanation.


You didn't give us enough information.  You didn't mention that a) they will NEVER reveal the door you chose, and b) they will NEVER reveal the right answer.

It's 50/50 if there's a chance they'll reveal your door, it's 66/33 (automatically) if there's a chance they'll reveal the correct door, and it's 33/66 if they'll never do either (depending on whether you switch or not).
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 06, 2005, 10:24:49 AM
Quote
Yes, but think about it.  I know where the Jack of diamonds is.  You don't.  You pick 1 in 52 cards.  That card has a 1 in 52 chance.  I, knowing where the card is, remove the other 50 cards and leave one card left.  You can't say that the original card has the same chance of being the Jack of Diamonds as the 1 card that is left over...  

Here is an article describing how it works.  

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_189.html



But you might know where it is, and by the time you ask us to switch we have a 50% chance of being right....So it may be the card you have not flipped over, but it could (equally) be the card that we have picked.  Each has as likely chance of being true.  So if we switch or stay with our original card we still have the same chance of being right.  Hence it is not nessasary "in your best intrest" to switch
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 06, 2005, 02:29:53 PM
Legion, go read my explanation, also.


You people need to stop ignoring me.  I've already explained why and how these work the way they do.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 06, 2005, 03:37:45 PM
WOW I read your reply Jade and it is filled with misleading facts....

OK you have 3 boxes
[1] [2] [3]

You pick box 2.....of course the host is going to eliminate a wrong answer first..... So box 3 is eliminated

[1] {2}

Now you only have box 1 and 2 left.....You had a 33% chance of winning in the beginning....now since one of them is eliminated that was wrong, your chances increase to 50% no matter if you switch or not.  So is it in your best interest to switch...no because regardless of which box is removed you still have the same chances of winning at this point,  because the host is NEVER going to look at yours or (if its different) the correct box first, they will always eliminate one of the wrong ones.  You have at this point that same amount of likelihood of being right on your first guess then if you change.  Remember you are, after eliminating 1 box still just picking from 2 boxes that both have an equal chance of having the prize in it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 06, 2005, 05:20:25 PM
Wrong.

You're not taking into account the fact that the box which is being revealed is not random.  Were it random, there would be a 50/50 chance.

However, they will never reveal a) the correct answer, and b) your box.

This plays with the equation.  It's not just a matter of randomly picking between two boxes.


As I have stated, in the initial group of 3 boxes, the right answer is NOT your box 66% of the time.  Seeing as they will NEVER reveal your box, whether it's right or wrong, that means that 66% of the time, the other WRONG answer will be eliminated, leaving the other RIGHT answer.  Which means that 66% of the time, switching boxes will make you get the RIGHT one.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on September 06, 2005, 09:41:06 PM
I have to admit that Jade Knight (and those who agree with him) is right. Didn't make sense to me for the longest time, but I bow to some good explanations...one from my brother in law...

You're really playing one of two different games. One game, in which you win 100% of the time by sticking with your initial door, is what you're playing a third of the time. The other game, in which you win 100% of the time by switching your door, comes up two thirds of the time. (Just do the simulation I linked above, for experimental evidence.)

You don't know which game you're playing, but the guy who eliminates a wrong answer does know, and THAT keeps it from being random.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 07, 2005, 12:31:36 AM
I thought that the fact that the host would know where the item is was implied.  I should have probably stated it better.

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 07, 2005, 01:50:52 AM
It's not that the host knows where the item is.  It's that the host never reveals the correct answer, and (very important), never reveals your own box.  This as a trend, not just a one-off deal.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 07, 2005, 10:21:42 AM
yeah I was talking to a Math major about your statistics to see if you were right about all that and she told me that your logic wasn't right and that in fact it wouldn't matter if you switch or not...This girl was the Valedictorian of her college so I am assuming that she knows what she is talking about
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 07, 2005, 01:13:44 PM
She was wrong.  Or at least, didn't bother to get all the facts.  Get her online and maybe we can convince her, and then she can convince you.  :)

Quote
After you pick your door, the host, as he always does, picks another door and opens it up.


Cecil Adams, from the article, states three criteria must be met.  
Quote
(1) The host knows which door conceals the prize; (2) he only opens doors that do NOT conceal the prize; and (3) he always opens a door.


The second and third criteria are met.   The first was implied, but I should have been more clear.  

You can argue that maybe the way I stated the puzzle implies that it wouldn't matter, but in the spirit of the puzzle, (what was implied), when those criteria are met, you are foolish not to switch because you have a greater chance of winning.

Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 07, 2005, 01:16:35 PM
Quote
It's that the host never reveals the correct answer, and (very important), never reveals your own box.
 

This is kind of irrelevent.  Because if the host revealed the correct answer, or your box, there is no longer any guess work involved. You know.  The whole idea is that after the other door is revealed, you don't know where the prize is.  But if the host knows, and always reveals the other door that does not have the prize, you have a great chance if you switch.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 07, 2005, 01:56:59 PM
No, but see, it's statistical.  Knowing that it's not random (as opposed to you just being lucky/unlucky) is statistically important for determining your odds.


And no offense, Legion, but she obviously didn't think about my post long enough (did she actually read this thread, or did she just hear your explanation of my post?), or she's not as statistically inclined as you make out.  If you're having trouble grasping how it works this way, I recommend you click on Ookla's link and think it out.


Once again:

If there's a chance they'll open your door, the odds are 50/50, no matter what you do, you'll win.  If there's a chance they'll reveal the correct answer, your odds jump to 66% automatically.  If they will definitely never do either, your odds are 66% only if you switch.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 07, 2005, 02:25:09 PM
Quote
No, but see, it's statistical.  Knowing that it's not random (as opposed to you just being lucky/unlucky) is statistically important for determining your odds.
 Sorry, I misundestood you.  I thought you were saying that in defense of not switching.  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: scAri on September 07, 2005, 02:29:47 PM
So people just need to get the 50/50 thing out of their heads. You make a 1/3 choice and nothing that happens after that can change the fact that your choice has a 1/3 chance. We're not dealing with that sort of probability/statistics because there's no randomness.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 07, 2005, 02:33:09 PM
There may be some randomness, but there is much less randomness, and it affects the equation.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 07, 2005, 02:51:38 PM
Quote
And no offense, Legion, but she obviously didn't think about my post long enough (did she actually read this thread, or did she just hear your explanation of my post?), or she's not as statistically inclined as you make out.  If you're having trouble grasping how it works this way, I recommend you click on Ookla's link and think it out.



She did read your post and that is where she stated that your logic is wrong.  She said that after the host eliminates one of the wrong boxes that is not yours, it is, statistically no better if you switch boxes.  This is due to the fact that the host will always revealed the wrong door no matter if you pick a correct one or not.  Therefore it comes down to you picking one box with a 100% chance of not having your box eliminated...then you are given a chance to switch between 2 boxes which gives you a 50/50 chance of picking the right box.

So having 3 boxes is really not important since you will always have a different box (that is wrong) eliminated first.  So then you only have to really choose between the two boxes that are left.  Now this is just like calling a coin heads or tails in the air.  Statically you have a 50% chance of being right no matter what way you go.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 07, 2005, 02:57:02 PM
Wrong.

You didn't read my post carefully enough, and it seems that she didn't, either.

Do you agree, or disagree, that, initially, the box you choose has a [33%] chance of being right, and the other two boxes, together, have a [66%] chance of containing the right answer?

Additionally, do you agree or disagree that there are three possible scenarios, each with a [33%] chance of occuring, and that they are:
a) the correct choice is in box A
b) the correct choice is in box B
c) the correct choice is in box C


Remember, this is a math puzzle, so the math has to add up.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 07, 2005, 04:01:26 PM
I agree with both of those statements.....but it is really 1/3 not 33%
1/3+1/3+1/3=1
33%+33%+33%=99%

1/3 does not equal 33%, but for this we will assume that 1/3 does =33%

but yes I know what you are saying and I agree that you, at the begining only have a 33% chance of being right, and yes there are only 3 possible scenarios
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 07, 2005, 05:30:33 PM
I'm rounding down, for the sake of convenience.

Okay, let's run this down for you on a possibility by possibility basis:

Given:  You choose box A.

Possibility 1 [33%]:
The correct answer is box A.  Host reveals box B or C (statistically, it doesn't make a difference).
Keep = [win]  [33%]
Trade (for either) = [lose]  [0%]

Possibility 2 [33%]:
The correct answer is box B.  Host reveals box C.
Keep = [lose] [0%]
Trade for box B = [win] [33%]

Possibility 3 [33%]
The correct answer is box C.  Host reveals box B.
Keep = [lose] [0%]
Trade for box C = [win] [33%]


Those are the only 3 possibilities.

You'll note:
Keep = [33%+0%+0%] = 33% chance of winning
Trade = [0%+33%+33%] = 66% chance of winning.


The rules of the game limit the possibilities, and those are the only three possibilities, and I hope this makes it easier for you to see how the precentages add up.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 07, 2005, 05:48:27 PM
OK but since the host will always eliminate one of the 3 that is not yours and is wrong then possibility 2 and 3 should not count as 2 different situations since it makes no difference if which one is eliminated, since it will not be yours or the correct box.  

Think about it no matter which box you choose and not matter which box is correct your choice is always coming down to picking between one of two boxes not one of three boxes.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 07, 2005, 07:32:04 PM
As much as you don't think they "should count" as two different situations, they are.  And you just agreed there were three possible outcomes with a 33% chance of each.

Yes, it always comes down to one of two boxes, but initially (and this is very, very important), it gets placed in one of three boxes.

So you do, indeed, have three potential scenarios, even though, in any of the three given scenarios, you have two choices.

Do you understand?


If I handed you two boxes, and said there was $50 in one, there would be two potential scenarios:
Either the $50 is in box a, or
the $50 is in box b.

However, because the situation we're given starts with three boxes, there are three different scenarios we're dealing with.


Again, I recommend you click on the link Ookla provided for verification of this.  If you can figure out another reason things stack the way they do, you're welcome to try a mathematically sound explanation.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 08, 2005, 09:56:54 AM
I would agree with you completely if you where not given the choose to switch after the first box was removed.  But since 1 of the 3 boxes are taken away and you are given the choice to either switch to the other box or stay with your current box then it completely negates one of the situations.

OK Facts:
1) You pick 1 of three boxes
2) No matter which box is correct and which box you pick, a wrong boxes that is not yours will be eliminated.
3) The host will ALWAYS give you the chance to switch

This means that your first guess has no impact on whether you will win or lose, it is just like getting a buy round in a tournement.  So the only real choice you have in this situation is whether you stay with box 2 or switch to box 1....which is a 50% that yours is right. Now if the host never gave you that chance to switch then you would be right you would only have a 1 out of 3 chance of winning.

I will look at Ookla's link again, but I cannot till tonight.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 08, 2005, 01:53:23 PM
Quote
This means that your first guess has no impact on whether you will win or lose, it is just like getting a buy round in a tournement.  So the only real choice you have in this situation is whether you stay with box 2 or switch to box 1....which is a 50% that yours is right. Now if the host never gave you that chance to switch then you would be right you would only have a 1 out of 3 chance of winning.

I will look at Ookla's link again, but I cannot till tonight.


Your first to comments above are correct, but your conclusion does not stem from them at all.  Also, WHICH box you guess initially has no impact on your chances of winning or losing, however, the fact that you get the guess makes an impact.
It is not just like getting a "buy" round.

You YOURSELF agreed that there were three possible outcomes of any given round.  I've explained how these fall <b>with percentages</i> so you can add up the math.


If you feel you were incorrect in your own statements, or would otherwise like to argue your point further, you're going to have to include some math that takes into account the situation, and logically provide an explanation that supports it.


In the face of everything I've provided you, "There are two boxes, therefore it must automatically be a 50% chance" does not cut it; there are three possibilities.  You agreed to this yourself.  Your "solution" only provides us with two.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 08, 2005, 03:22:15 PM
You can look at it another way.  If I gave you three boxes, and said you could either pick one box, or pick two boxes, in hopes to find the 'prize', what would you pick?  You would pick two, even though you knew that one of the boxes would be empty.  You would rather have two chances at winning than just one.

So, in the scenario, when you 'switch', you are in affect picking the other two boxes, even though you know one of them already is not the prize.  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 08, 2005, 04:12:14 PM
I have been thinking about the scenarios you gave Jade and if you really think about it there are 4 scenarios not 3

You Pick box 2 in all of the scenarios
scenario 1
1) You pick B
2) C is eliminated
3) A is correct
4) You lose

scenario 2
1) You pick B
2) A is eliminated
3) C is correct
4) You lose

scenario 3
1) You pick B
2) C is eliminated
3) A is incorrect
4) You win

scenario 4
1) You pick B
2) A is eliminated
3) C is incorrect
4) You win

4 scenarios and you lose half of them using the game show rules.  Still need to re-look at Ookla's link but just thought of that.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 08, 2005, 04:19:12 PM
Quote
You can look at it another way.  If I gave you three boxes, and said you could either pick one box, or pick two boxes, in hopes to find the 'prize', what would you pick?  You would pick two, even though you knew that one of the boxes would be empty.  You would rather have two chances at winning than just one.

So, in the scenario, when you 'switch', you are in affect picking the other two boxes, even though you know one of them already is not the prize.  



yeah that makes sence but at the time when you can switch you know that 50% of the 66% is wrong.  This leaves you with 50% of 66% which is 33%.  So really its 33% of the orignal against 33% of the orginal....once again is it better to switch to 2 of 3 boxes when you know exactly which one of the two is empty...no its not because it still comes down to a 50/50 chance.

Its like this you can pick box 1 and 3 against box 2, but the host tells you ahead of time that box 3 is not it....so which do you do, does it really matter if you pick box 1 and 3 or box 2......I do not see how it does
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 08, 2005, 06:48:13 PM
Quote

You Pick box 2 in all of the scenarios
scenario 1
1) You pick B
2) C is eliminated
3) A is correct
4) You lose

scenario 2
1) You pick B
2) A is eliminated
3) C is correct
4) You lose

scenario 3
1) You pick B
2) C is eliminated
3) A is incorrect
4) You win

scenario 4
1) You pick B
2) A is eliminated
3) C is incorrect
4) You win


So, remember this:  You agreed that there was a [33%] chance (equally), that the correct answer was in box A, B, and C, therefore:

Scenarios 3 and 4 BOTH fall under one scenario which has a [33%] chance of occuring (the correct answer being in box B), so Scenario 3 has a [16%] chance of occuring, and scenario 4 has a [16%] chance of occuring.

Once again, you are left with 66% verses 33%.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 08, 2005, 07:46:44 PM
Will someone just call someone else a Nazi already?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: JP Dogberry on September 08, 2005, 07:47:36 PM
e, you're a nazi.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 08, 2005, 07:49:37 PM
That wasn't quite what I expected.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 08, 2005, 08:10:45 PM
Don't worry, it's just the anarchist calling the Nazi black.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 08, 2005, 09:40:08 PM
It's easier to think of it in larger terms, again, assuming the host knows where the thing is, and always takes away all of the doors that are not correct.

If there are 10 doors, and you pick on at random, then 8 are removed, you will win 90 percent of the time if you switch.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 08, 2005, 09:49:08 PM
Since it's been more than 24 hours, again...  Here is another one.

You and two other very smart people were brought before the President.  He want's to see which of you is the smartest, so you can figure out how to lower gas prices.  

You are led blind-folded into a small room, and seated around a table.  The president describes the test.

"Upon each of your heads I have placed a hat. You are either wearing a blue hat or a white hat. You don't know which, but I will tell you this; at least one of you is wearing a blue hat. There may be only one blue hat and two white hats, there may be two blue hats and one white hat, or there may be three blue hats. But you may be certain that there are not three white hats."

The president explains that when the blindfolds are taken off, the first to correctly announce the color of his hat shall be his advisor.

With that, the president uncovers your eyes and you see that your two competitors are each wearing blue hats. You see from the look in their eyes that they are thinking, "What is the color of my hat?"

For hours nobody speaks, then finally you stand up and say, "The color of the hat I am wearing is..."

What color is your hat?  And how do you come to that conclusiong?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 08, 2005, 10:21:40 PM
Blue, because he wants to give the same test to all three applicants.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: JP Dogberry on September 09, 2005, 07:09:52 AM
Nazis are WHITE though.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 09, 2005, 07:50:15 AM
I know, but if I said it was the anarchist calling the Nazi white, then it wouldn't be as direct a parody of "the pot calling the kettle black."
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 09, 2005, 09:48:42 AM
Ok I am still not convinced about the other riddle..I still see the problem as this

X = your pick
Y = not your pick
Z = host eliminates
W = guaranty win

X+(Y+Z) = W

Now at this point X is only at a 1/3 chance of being right while Y+Z has 2/3 chance of being right.  However we know that one of 2Y is going to be wrong and the host will show one of them.

Ok so now Z has been eliminated because the host revealed it

X+(Y+0) = W

Ok now you are only left with X which had a /13 chance of wining and Y+0 which had a 2/3 chance of winning.  Since half of Y+Z have been eliminated it stands to reason that it loses half of its chances of winning&#8230;lowering it down to 1/3 chance of being right.  So now you can see that the two boxes are equal.  So really there are only 2 scenarios that are valid.  

1)      You pick the correct box and one of the other two are eliminated
2)      You pick the incorrect box and the other wrong box is eliminated.

The third scenario that you stated is as useless as my 4th scenario that I posted.  Since all boxes are equal in the beginning, there is no real difference if box A has it or if box B has it because at the time when the host allows you to switch there still is only 2 boxes to choose from.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 09, 2005, 10:46:26 AM
Quote
Since half of Y+Z have been eliminated it stands to reason that it loses half of its chances of winning&#8230;lowering it down to 1/3 chance of being right.
 No, because then you are only left with 66 percent total.  Just because you know it's wrong, doesn't change the fact that there was a 1 in 3 chance that it was correct.

Get a buddy, try it with cards, check the percentages...

And Archon, your guess is not correct.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 09, 2005, 11:26:43 AM
Quote

 No, because then you are only left with 66 percent total.  Just because you know it's wrong, doesn't change the fact that there was a 1 in 3 chance that it was correct.

Get a buddy, try it with cards, check the percentages...

And Archon, your guess is not correct.


its 33% of the original 100%, because we just found out that 33% that could have been right is now wrong.  So that means that at this point in the game each box is at a 50% chance of winning, because we know now that 1 of the 3 is not it.

And your right there was a 1 in 3 chance, but we are not talking about at the start of the problem we are talking about once 1 box is eliminated is it any better to switch from your box to the only other box still not eliminated...

So if you want to do it with cards what you do is not pick 1 card out of 3 and see if you are righ,t but instead pick 1 card out of 3 then eliminate one of the wrong ones ( but no matter what can you eliminate yours)  and see if you have any better chance of winning if you switch or if you stay with your origninal guess.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 09, 2005, 02:06:29 PM
Legion, you have agreed that there is a [33%] chance the correct answer will be each box (because it is randomly distributed among the three).

You have still provided nothing which accounts for 3 [33%] chance scenarios dealing with this fact which would support your current hypothesis.

You cannot say "well, let's erase the old scenarios and voilà, we have two new ones!" or something to that effect.  You have to account for probability of placement.  How does your solution take into account the fact that 1/3 of the time the box will be in box A, 1/3 in box B, and 1/3 in box C?


As for the new riddle, Firemeboy, I'm stumped.  Is this going to turn out to be a political joke?

Each of the other two people are going to see two blue hats, or a blue and a white.  You see two blue hats.  For you, your hat could equally be blue or white.  For them, their hats could equally be blue or white, and whether yours was blue or white wouldn't make a difference to them figure out their own.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 09, 2005, 03:15:10 PM
I an not trying to erase my other post just trying to show you what I was talking about in a different way...I will try to clarify what I was saying

SO that me start over and try this and see if this helps you understand what I am getting at.

Formula
A = you pick
B = a different box
C = The last box
So then the formula would be A + B + C = 100% chance of winning...right?

Now the host eliminates box C...now you have more information to add into the formula right?


Formula is now

A = still your pick
B=another box
C = been eliminated so its zero now

A + (B + 0) = 100% chance of winning...is that right?

So then it's really A + B = 100% chance of winning...2 choices both equal it&#8217;s a 50/50 chance that either is true...

Can you show me anything that is wrong with this logic?

Quote
Since it's been more than 24 hours, again...  Here is another one.

You and two other very smart people were brought before the President.  He want's to see which of you is the smartest, so you can figure out how to lower gas prices.  

You are led blind-folded into a small room, and seated around a table.  The president describes the test.

"Upon each of your heads I have placed a hat. You are either wearing a blue hat or a white hat. You don't know which, but I will tell you this; at least one of you is wearing a blue hat. There may be only one blue hat and two white hats, there may be two blue hats and one white hat, or there may be three blue hats. But you may be certain that there are not three white hats."

The president explains that when the blindfolds are taken off, the first to correctly announce the color of his hat shall be his advisor.

With that, the president uncovers your eyes and you see that your two competitors are each wearing blue hats. You see from the look in their eyes that they are thinking, "What is the color of my hat?"

For hours nobody speaks, then finally you stand up and say, "The color of the hat I am wearing is..."

What color is your hat?  And how do you come to that conclusiong?


It never states that you had a hat put on your head....so do you not have one?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 09, 2005, 03:20:59 PM
no, you have one, because it says that they put one on you.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Tink on September 09, 2005, 03:25:31 PM
Can you just look at what hat you're wearing? The President doesn't say you have to guess without looking, does he? Although if this were true, it wouldn't take hours to figure out.

And Legion, the President says he has placed a hat on each of their heads. So it was done before the test was explained. Plus you should be able to feel it, so you'd know if there wasn't one, and you'd say, "There isn't a hat on my head," not "The color of the hat I'm wearing is. . ."
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 09, 2005, 03:46:45 PM
Quote
Formula is now

A = still your pick
B=another box
C = been eliminated so its zero now

A + (B + 0) = 100% chance of winning...is that right?

So then it's really A + B = 100% chance of winning...2 choices both equal it&#8217;s a 50/50 chance that either is true...

Can you show me anything that is wrong with this logic?


Yes, your logic makes the false assumption that the two choices are equal. That is not the case, because your choice was made randomly, while the host's choice is made knowingly.

When you picked A, there was a 1 in 3 chance that it was correct.  Since you have no way of knowing which box contains the prize, your choice is random.

Now, when the host eliminates one of the two remaining boxes, he is not acting randomly.  If he were acting randomly, then there would be a 1/3 chance he would eliminate the box with the prize.  But since he can only eliminate a box that does not have the prize, that means he does not affect the original probability of 2/3 that the prize is not in box A.  Which means there is a 2/3 chance the prize is in the box the host did not eliminate.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 09, 2005, 04:39:19 PM
To recap my point:

When you start the game, if you played 30 times and things were perfectly distributed statistically, the answer would be:

A = 10 times
B = 10 times
C = 10 times

Okay?  When you start, there's a 33% chance it'll be in each.  So that's how many it will be in each.

According to my analysis, if you keep your box, you should win 10/30 times.  According to your analysis, you should win 15/30 times.

Let's try it out:

Answer in A (10 times)
Choose A, host kills B [50% - 5 times] or C [50% - 5 times]
You're going to win 10/10 times if you keep A.

Answer in B (10 times)
Choose A, host kills C [100%]
You're going to win 0/10 times if you keep A.

Answer in C (10 times)
Choose A, host kills B [100%]
You're going to win 0/10 times if you keep A.

So, if you keep A, you'll win 10/30 times - 33%.


Let's try reverse engineering:
According to your analysis, you're going to win 50% of the time.  Let's run your scenario 36 times (distributing answers as you expect them to be), and see what happens.

Okay, Legion's scenario:

You choose your box.  You keep your box.  You win 50% of the time, and lose 50% of the time.

50% of the time the answer is in your box (because you kept it and won 50% of the time):
A = 18
50% of the time [18] the answer is not in your box (divided equally among the other two)
B = 9
C = 9

So, according to your plan, legion, the answer is in A 50% of the time, B 25% of the time, and C 25% of the time.  This is, assuming you start with A, and keep A the entire game.

In other words, in order for you to be correct, Legion, the prize would have to be placed in your box twice as often as either of the others.


JadeKnight's scenario:

You choose your box.  You keep your box.  You win 33% of the time and lose 66% of the time.

33% of the time the answer is in your box (because you chose it and kept it and won 33% of the time):
A =12
66% of the time [24] the answer is not in your box (divided equally among the other two)
B = 12
C = 12

So, according to this plan the answer is in A 33% of the time, B 33% of the time, and C 33% of the time.  And it doesn't matter which box you choose and keep the entire game (it works as well for A as it would for C).
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 09, 2005, 06:08:40 PM
Quote

According to my analysis, if you keep your box, you should win 10/30 times.  According to your analysis, you should win 15/30 times.


No you are missing my point...we are not dealing with 1 quess to pick the correct box out of 3 choices.  Instead you are given another chance to guess from 1 of 2 boxes.  Your question was after the Host eliminated 1 of the 3 boxes is it better to switch to the other one, and at this point no it is not because even though the host knows where the price is, the price has the same chance of being in either of the 2 boxes.  Thats why I chanced it to a math formula with variables.  Which box is eliminated first does not really matter since it will always not be yours and it is always wrong.  So you are left with did you pick the correct one or does the host know that you are wrong.  So now the host says to you you can switch to the other box are keep yours.....it's like he is letting you choice all over again....so a choose between 2 boxes is a 50% chance with either one.  The only reason why you guys are saying its not is because the host knows where the price is and he knowningly eliminates the only box that does not have the price or is your choice.  This does not chance the fact that the question still leaves you with only 2 choices.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Archon on September 09, 2005, 07:14:08 PM
Look at it as a system of equations Legion. Each variable represents the probability of one of the boxes.

X+(Y+Z) = 100
(Y+Z) = 66
Z= 0

You know that, together, all of the boxes represent a 100% chance. You know that together Y and Z have a 66% chance. When the chances of Z are reduced to 0, Y must equal 66.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 09, 2005, 07:21:45 PM
Quote
This does not chance the fact that the question still leaves you with only 2 choices.

The fact that there are two choices does not automatically mean the probability of each choice being a winner is the same.

Assume that after you have chosen box A, the host gives you the following 2 choices:

1. Stick with box A.
2. Choose both B and C.  If a prize is in either one, you win.

So you have only two choices, but that doesn't mean the probability of the prize being in A has suddenly jumped from 33% to 50%.  With choice 1, your probability of winning is only 33%; with choice 2, it is 67%.

When the host eliminates one box, he is really still giving you choice 2.  Since at least one box out of B and C must be empty, the fact that the host shows you that one of them is empty does not change the fact that there was a 67% chance the prize would be in either B or C.

Let's make it even more clear.

The host shows you 1,000,000 boxes, and tells you that there is a prize hidden in just one of the boxes.  You choose box 234,567.  What are the chances you selected the box with the prize? One in a million (0.0001%).

Now the host has his assistants open up 999,998 of the boxes, showing them as empty.  Only your box and box 327,649 are left.

You have only two choices, now.  Do you seriously believe that the probability that you picked the right box has jumped from 0.0001% to 50%, merely because all the other boxes have been eliminated?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Jade Knight on September 09, 2005, 09:05:49 PM
Legion, you start with 3 boxes.  Either you have random distribution of prizes (between three boxes, or you don't.  If you look at my above analysis, it is clear that random distribution is not possible given your scenario.

You start with 3 boxes, not 2, and so you must divide probability between the three of them.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 09, 2005, 10:18:05 PM
No, this new riddle isn't a political joke.  If you want to, you can change it to prime minister or king or czar or somethin.

And yes, you are wearing a hat, and no, you may not peek at it, but if you are logical, you can figure out what color hat you are wearing.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 10, 2005, 12:44:12 PM
I know the hat one because I've heard it before.  Am I allowed to answer?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 10, 2005, 01:13:00 PM
Well, it doesn't look like anybody else is taking a stab at it...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 10, 2005, 01:18:41 PM
I have now seen the error of my logic....sorry for all the grive I have been given you about this I can be a little thick skulled at times.....
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 10, 2005, 02:58:37 PM
Quote
You and two other very smart people were brought before the President.  He want's to see which of you is the smartest, so you can figure out how to lower gas prices.  

You are led blind-folded into a small room, and seated around a table.  The president describes the test.

"Upon each of your heads I have placed a hat. You are either wearing a blue hat or a white hat. You don't know which, but I will tell you this; at least one of you is wearing a blue hat. There may be only one blue hat and two white hats, there may be two blue hats and one white hat, or there may be three blue hats. But you may be certain that there are not three white hats."

The president explains that when the blindfolds are taken off, the first to correctly announce the color of his hat shall be his advisor.  

With that, the president uncovers your eyes and you see that your two competitors are each wearing blue hats. You see from the look in their eyes that they are thinking, "What is the color of my hat?"

For hours nobody speaks, then finally you stand up and say, "The color of the hat I am wearing is..."  

What color is your hat?  And how do you come to that conclusiong?

My hat is blue and here's why:

There are three possible configurations of what each of the three contestants could see.

1. 2 white hats.  If you see this, you would know instantly that you had a blue hat, because there cannot be more than two white hats, so you would announce the answer and win the contest.  Since someone did not do this, we know nobody saw this configuration.

2. 1 blue, 1 white.  If you see this, then you have to ask yourself what color your own hat is.  If it were white, then the guy in the blue hat would see configuration #1, and so he would announce his answer and win the contest.  Since he doesn't do that, your hat must be blue.  So you would announce the answer and win the contest.   Since someone did not do this, we know nobody saw this configuration.

3. 2 blue.  If you see this, then you have to ask yourself what color your own hat is. If it were white, then the other two contestants would see configuration #2, and  one of them would announce the answer and win the contest.  Since neither of them do that, you know your hat must be blue.

Since I see two blue hats, if my hat were white, then one of the other two very smart people would have already won this contest, instead of us sitting around here for hours.  So my hat must be blue.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 10, 2005, 03:00:10 PM
Legion, you're not alone.  The first time I heard the puzzle it took me quite a while to understand why it paid to switch.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 11, 2005, 03:00:57 AM
That is correct Eric, you're up...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 11, 2005, 12:22:59 PM
On a certain island there are two tribes of people.  The people of the Truthteller tribe always answer questions truthfully.  The people of the Lieteller tribe always answer questions by lying.

There's also a group of outcasts from both villages.  The outcasts sometimes tell the truth and sometimes lie, without any consistent pattern.

You have landed on this island, and you need to get to the village of the Truthtellers, but you don't know whether it's the east village or the west village.

On the road between the two villages, you encounter three people.  Because they each have different tribal markings, you know that one is a Truthteller, one is a Lieteller, and one is an outcast.  You don't know which is which, but at least their tribal markings look like an A, a B, and a C, so you can easily tell them apart.

You can ask a total of two yes-or-no questions.  Each question will be directed to only one of the three people, and only that one will answer.  You may direct both questions to one person or direct the first question to one and the second question to another.

What two questions do you ask (and of whom) in order to correctly determine whether the east village or the west village belongs to the Truthtellers?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 11, 2005, 06:44:34 PM
Well, the castout throws a wrench into the works.   You could pick somebody at random and say, "If I were to ask this person (again, pick somebody at random), "does the truthtellers village lies to the East", what would they say?"

Let's assume that the truthtellers village does lie to the east.  If you asked the person who always lies, they would say, "He would say it does not lie to the East".  And if you asked the person who always tells the truth, he would say, "He would say it does not lie to the East."  

Or if it did not lie to the east, the liar would say, "He would say it lies to the east."  And the truth teller would say the same thing.  So you would go the opposite way of whatever is said.

And it wouldn't matter if you picked the castout, because again, their answer would be the same.

The only tricky part is I don't know how the person would answer if you picked a castout as the 'other person'.  Because the first person wouldn't know how that person might answer.  

So maybe I will pose that question to you.  If I were to pick the liar, and ask him how this person would answer that question (and happened to pick the castout), what would they answer?

Am I on the right vein here?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 11, 2005, 07:18:50 PM
Quote
Let's assume that the truthtellers village does lie to the east.  If you asked the person who always lies, they would say, "He would say it does not lie to the East".  And if you asked the person who always tells the truth, he would say, "He would say it does not lie to the East."


Well, they're supposed to be yes-or-no questions, but the principle works.  "If I were to ask him if the Truthtellers village lies to the east, would he say yes?" If there were only the Truthteller and the Lieteller, either of them would reply "No" when asked about what the other would say, and you would know that answer was false, and that the village truly was to the east.

Quote
If I were to pick the liar, and ask him how this person would answer that question (and happened to pick the castout), what would they answer?


Hmmm. Interesting question.  If you pointed at the outcast and asked the Truthteller, "If I asked that man if the Truthteller village is to the East, would he answer 'Yes'?" then the only truthful response would be "I don't know."

So, I guess the only thing the Lieteller could do would be the opposite: "I know."

Quote
Am I on the right vein here?

It's not the vein of the answer I'm familiar with, but it may lead to a correct answer.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 11, 2005, 07:51:26 PM
If that is the case, then the two questions I would ask are as follows...

I would pick one person at random, and ask, "If I asked him (pointing to a fellow), if the truth village lies to the East, would he say yes?"

If he answered "I don't know, or I know," Then I would ask the same fellow the same quetsion, but about the next man.  Then I would ascertain the answer, go the opposite way, and find the village.

This way you might find the answer in one question.

But, it sounds like you are looking for something else.  I'll have to think about this one some more.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 11, 2005, 08:17:17 PM
You haven't dealt with what you do if the person you ask first was the outcast.

If you're pointing at the Truthteller, and the outcast tells the truth, then the answer will be "Yes."  

If you're pointing at the Truthteller, and the outcast tells a lie, then the answer will be "No."

If you're pointing at the Lieteller, and the outcast tells the truth, then the answer will be "No."  

If you're pointing at the Lieteller, and the outcast tells a lie, then the answer will be "Yes."

Thus the answer to the first question cannot tell you whether the village is in the east.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 11, 2005, 08:28:11 PM
That said, the first question you have proposed does elicit sufficient information for you to solve the puzzle, if you ask the right second question of the right person.  It's not the same first question I would have used, but in analyzing it, I'm pretty sure it works.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 11, 2005, 10:09:04 PM
Ah...  I see.  Yes, it is that pesky unknown that causes a problem.  But assuming that you ask two people, you can be assured that one of them is not the outcast.

But I'm still curious about the solution you are thinking of, so I'm going to keep thinking.  I'm assuming there is some question that allows you to isolate or identify one of the players.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 11, 2005, 10:30:26 PM
Let's see. You could ask the question, "If I ask him a question, will he always tell me the truth?

If you got the answer yes, then you would know either
A - Outcast, telling the truth about the truth teller
B - Liar telling a lie about the outcast.
C - Outcast telling a lie about the liar

If you got a no:
A - Outcast telling the truth about the liar
B - Truth teller telling the truth about the liar
C - Truth teller telling the truth about the Outcast
D - Outcast telling a lie about the Truth Teller
E - Liar telling a lie about the truth teller

Which tells you absolutely nothing.  Though if the answer if yes, you know for certain that the person you just asked is not the 'truth teller'.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 11, 2005, 11:08:28 PM
Quote
But assuming that you ask two people, you can be assured that one of them is not the outcast.


But if you don't know which one is not the outcast, you don't know which answer to rely on.

I think you may have a workable answer, but you need to demonstrate your reasoning a bit more clearly.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 11, 2005, 11:21:42 PM
It seems like somehow you need to isolate who is the outcast, so you can ask my first question.  But I can't figure out how to do that...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 11, 2005, 11:54:59 PM
I think your question works if you ask it twice and think through the implications.   It's a different solution from what I had, but I think that's because I didn't lay out the problem exactly the way I heard it originally.

(The original version didn't have the "I don't know" and "I know" answers available to distinguish the outcast.  I'm not sure how that was done -- maybe by having the outcasts alternately tell the truth and lie, and the other two knew what the outcast would do next.)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 12, 2005, 12:33:46 AM
What about this.  You could introduce yourself as Jim.  Then ask, "If I ask him, "Is my name Jim", will he say yes?"

If you ask the honest person, then he would either say no (about the liar), or I don't know (about the outcast).

If you ask the liar, they will either say "no" (about the honest person), or "I know" (About the outcast).

If you ask the outcast, they will either say "yes" (being honest about the honest person), or "no" (lying about the honest person), or "no" (being honest about the liar), or "yes" (lying about the liar).

So, if the person answers yes, or I know, or I don't know, you know the identity, and you can either ask the other two the original question, or ask the honest person or liar the quetsion, and know what the answer is.

But, if he answers no, he might be any of the three, and then you are hosed.

It's too late, I can't wrap my brain around this one.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 12, 2005, 01:48:18 AM
Stick to your original question and work through the implications of asking it twice.  You're close.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 12, 2005, 09:10:55 AM
This is a variation of the question asked in Laberynth about two doors, one leading to the way out, the other leading to certain death. There are two answers to that riddle, but I can only remember the one firemeboy has already started working with. I will now rack my brain for the other answer so I can figure it out with the third person worked in.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 12, 2005, 10:20:48 AM
Quick question.....If you ask a question of the Truthteller about the outcast what would be the answer...since they lie at random wouldn't the truthteller not know what the outcast would say therefore he could not answer with a simple yes or no...it would be more like I do not know, which is not a valid answer for this riddle
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 12, 2005, 12:17:55 PM
Firemeboy also asked about that, and here's the answer, for purposes of solving the problem as I presented it:
Quote

If you pointed at the outcast and asked the Truthteller, "If I asked that man if the Truthteller village is to the East, would he answer 'Yes'?" then the only truthful response would be "I don't know."

So, I guess the only thing the Lieteller could do would be the opposite: "I know."


The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that in the original version of the problem, the outcasts are supposed to alternate between truth and lies, and the other two know where the outcast is in the cycle, so they can predict whether his next answer will be true or false.

I'll take a solution to the problem either way.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 12, 2005, 02:05:10 PM
Ok, so if you ask my original question, "If I ask him does the honest village lie to the east, would he say yes?"

If I'm asking the truth teller and pointing to the liar, I will either get a yes, if the honest village lies to the West, or a no if the honest village lies to the east.  If I'm pointing to the outcast I will get a "I don't know".

If I'm asking the liar, and pointing to the honest fellow, I will either get a yes, if the honest village lies to the West, or a no if the village lies to the East.  If I'm pointing to the Outcast, I will get a "I know."

Now, if I've picked the outcast, I will get a yes or a no, based on whether or not he wants to lie, or tell the truth.  So he is a wild card.  I can glean nothing from him.  This is where I'm hitting a brick wall.  If I don't know if I've picked the outcast, how can I make a certain decision?

If I get lucky and get a 'I know' or 'I don't know', then I've solved the puzzle.  I know both who is the liar, and who is the truth teller, and can simply use my second quetsion to determine where the village is.  But If I don't luck out, I need to use the second question to determine who is who.  Worst case scenario, I piced the outcast the first time, and get to yes/no answers.  Then I know who the outcast is, but I still don't know where the village is.  I would need a third quetsion.

If I picked a liar or a honest person the first time, I could glean it in two questions.  But again, if I picked the outcast the first time, I still don't know the answer, because he could have lied twice.

Somebody show me where I'm going wrong.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 12, 2005, 02:28:28 PM
Suppose on your first question you ask A about B.

1. Suppose A is the outcast.  You will get either a yes or a no from A about B.

2. Suppose B is the outcast.  You will get either an "I don't know" or an "I know" from A.

3. Suppose C is the outcast.  You will get either a yes or a no from A about B.

Now, for #2, there's no problem.  If you know B is the outcast, then you ask the question of A about C.  Since neither of them is an outcast, you can use A's answer to determine where the village is.

With #1 and #3, you don't know if you can rely on A's answer, because you don't if A or C is the outcast.  But you do know that B is not the outcast.  So you ask your question again, but this time you ask B about C.

If B gives a "yes" or "no" answer, you know you can rely on it because A must be the outcast.

If B gives an "I don't know" or an "I know" answer, you know C must be the outcast.  That means you can rely on A's answer to the first question about B, because neither of them is the outcast.

I believe that covers all the bases.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 12, 2005, 04:04:40 PM
I think it does...  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 12, 2005, 06:10:31 PM
Ok, here is another...

You've just purchased your first new home. When you arrive to beginning moving in, you discover that the builder forgot something. Being a self-reliant sort of person, you decide to finish the job yourself. You stroll down to the local hardware store and find exactly what you need at a price you can afford. The hardware store charges perfectly reasonable prices for the items; 7 will cost $1.00, 10 will cost $2.00, and 100 will cost $3.00. As it happens, you need 880, which also costs $3.00.

These items could likely be found at any hardware store, and at your average home.

What did the builder forget?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 12, 2005, 06:14:20 PM
The home's address numbers.  The address is 880 [Street Name].
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 12, 2005, 06:34:56 PM
yep...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 12, 2005, 06:59:02 PM
This one is one of my favorites:

You're a lieutenant in charge of a sergeant and four privates.  You have a 40-foot flagpole that is one foot in diameter at one end (intended as the base) and 6 inches in diameter at the other (intended as the top).  There is a hole six feet deep and three feet wide, into which the flagpole must be placed in the middle, so that concrete can be poured around it to fix it in position.  You have three pieces of rope -- one 38 feet long, one 27 feet long, and one six feet long.

Explain what you would do to get the flagpole into position.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 13, 2005, 02:36:03 AM
Hint: The solution is not complicated, once you recognize it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 13, 2005, 09:21:58 AM
This sounds pretty easy...here I go

1)  OK you take the 27 foot rope and cut it in half (fold it and cut it to make sure it is 1/2 the lenth)

2) Then take the 6 foot rope and measure it up against the 13.5 foot rope and cut off 6 feet of rope from the 13.5 foot rope.  This give you a piece of rope that is 7.5 feet.

3) once again cut off 6 feet of rope the same way to give you 1.5 foot rope.

4) Now do the same think with the other 27 foot rope to get 2 pieces of 1.5 foot rope

5) Have you Privates place the pole in the hole while you have your sargent measure to the middle of the 3 foot wide hole using the 1.5 foor rope (1.5 is half of 3 foot so it is just enough to make it to the center of the hole.

6) OK now pour in the cement and you are all set.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 13, 2005, 10:18:50 AM
seems like you would want 1' ropes to find the edge of where the pole should be, rather than 1.5' ropes to find the exact center of the whole.

Also, why don't you have measuring tape if you have a knife to cut the rope with?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 13, 2005, 10:31:27 AM
oh....forgot about the base being 1 foot in diameter..ok then in that case do the same thing with the 38 foot rope.

38/2 = 19
19-6-6-6= 1 foot
19-6-6-6= 1 foot

So do the same think only with using the 38 foot rope not the 27 foot rope.

Like some one in the military would be that smart.....j/k
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 13, 2005, 10:46:05 AM
In order to solve the puzzle, you do not need to use anything not specifically mentioned. (i.e., a knife)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 13, 2005, 10:53:14 AM
I'm gonna stack the grunts on top of each other then to tie the flag to the top once the pole is in place.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 13, 2005, 11:08:42 AM
The solution can be explained in one rather simple sentence.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 13, 2005, 11:37:34 AM
OK take the 38 foot rope tie it to the top low enough that the footage lost at the top is that far from the top of the pole, and run it down side of the pole.  Place the pole in the hole and wrap the rope around the base where it meets the group, should be 6 feet up the pole.  The left over rope that you have is equal to about 1 foot.  You can use that to measure to the one side.  

I do not think this is the way you were thinking but it should work.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 13, 2005, 11:57:51 AM
Quote
Explain what you would do to get the flagpole into position.


Put it in the hole.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 13, 2005, 12:10:53 PM
Do you need to know the basics of geometry to solve the problem?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 13, 2005, 12:35:08 PM
I can think of several 'complex' ways to do this, but not sure about the simple one...
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 13, 2005, 12:42:45 PM
This is pretty simple.  You take the 6 foot long rope and bend it in half.  You lay that 3 foot piece in the bottom of the pit and mark it in the dirt.  You then change the angle and do it again so you have a cross or a + sign.  That is the exact center.  

You then tip the flag pole upside down and place the top of the flag pole (that is 6 inches) right next to the center.  You mark where the pole is and do that again on the other side.  You now have the center of the pole, as well as two marks exactly 1 foot across.  You the the pole rightside up and place the bottom of the pole against those marks.  

Not one scentence, but I would wager you would be very close to the exact center.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 13, 2005, 12:46:23 PM
The keys to this puzzle are the first and last sentences.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 13, 2005, 01:06:59 PM
Tell the sergeant to do it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 13, 2005, 01:13:23 PM
That is correct.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 13, 2005, 01:28:24 PM
I still want to stack the grunts to reach the top to tie the flag on.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 13, 2005, 01:29:00 PM
LOL.

Classic.

Ok, here is another.

You work at a restaurant as a dish washer.  One night, after closing, your dishwashing buddy puts forward a challenge.  He proposes that each of you will take turns placing clean plates on a table. All of the plates are the same size, they must lie flat on the table, and no plate may overlap another. The first one who is unable to place another plate on the table without it falling off or moving another place must wash the dishes for the next week.

The table is a perfect circle, with a six foot diameter. Each plate is also a perfect circle with a 12 inch diameter.

Your friend says you can choose to go first or second.  What do you choose, and what is your strategy?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 13, 2005, 02:35:44 PM
you would go first becuase in the challenge it states that "the first one to..." so who ever goes first should win.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 13, 2005, 03:23:28 PM
What do you mean?  The first one who is unable to place another plate 'loses'.  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 13, 2005, 04:08:34 PM
I would go first and place a plate in the center of the table.  From then on, I would place my plates exactly opposite his (i.e., 180 degrees around the table and at the same distance from the center.)

That would mean any place he picked to put a plate would have to have an equivalent spot still open across the table.  If he successfully places a plate, then I will be able to do so.  So he must run out of spots to put a plate before I do.  Therefore, I will win.

That's a pretty neat puzzle, Firemeboy.  I haven't seen it before, and I had to play around with drawing circles withing circles for a while before the flash of insight came.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 13, 2005, 04:22:41 PM
OK I did not understand what you were talking about I thought that one person would go see how many plates they could put down and then the next person would have to see if they could place more plates then that.  And if they do it that way with you wording it makes it sound like the person who goes first would finish first and therefore be the winner.  Didn't know you ment the do it like you play othello
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 13, 2005, 09:18:52 PM
That is what I've got, EJS.  You can mess with the size of the table, the size of the dishes, and it's all a red herring.  Your flag pole measurements and rope reminded me of it.  :)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 14, 2005, 02:54:52 AM
Hmm.  I've used up all my good brain teasers.

OK, for this one you have to imagine that the lines below are seven toothpicks.

By moving only one toothpick, change the following into a true equation.


\/| = ||


You may not break any of the toothpicks, nor may you use one toothpick to move another.  The final equation should have equal values on both sides of the equals sign, so putting one toothpick diagonally across the two that form the equals sign in order to change it into a "not equals" is not allowed.  
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 14, 2005, 09:23:40 AM
ok, not sure if you have to keep them in roman numerals but if you do this

X I = 11
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 14, 2005, 10:59:15 AM
A good try.  I forgot to specify that both sides of the equation must be in the same numeric system.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 14, 2005, 11:22:02 AM
SURRRREEEE making up rules as we go along I see....lol. Ok I will have to give it another shot.

EDIT ok does it have to be roman numerals or can

the absolute vale of 11 (that is 11 with a line over it) be equal to 11?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 14, 2005, 12:25:05 PM
It doesn't have to be Roman numerals, but you can't have crooked numbers.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 14, 2005, 01:31:39 PM
well then I am do not know.  The only other idea I have is to make it

V = 111  but that I think might be using different number systems....where are the smart people to guess on this one?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 14, 2005, 02:41:41 PM
You actually got pretty close with that "absolute value of 11" guess.

Not numerically close, but close in terms of the type of thinking that you need to do to solve it.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 04:12:51 PM
What about:

V is greater than or equal to 11?

Or are variables not allowed?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 14, 2005, 04:24:28 PM
Quote
The final equation should have equal values on both sides of the equals sign, so putting one toothpick diagonally across the two that form the equals sign in order to change it into a "not equals" is not allowed.  

in other words, neither of the toothpicks in the "equals" sign are the ones that will be moved, and we won't be changing it either. focus on the other 5
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 14, 2005, 04:37:12 PM
No variables.  Mathematical operators or functions are allowed, though.

And the result must make sense in base 10 math.  Other than Roman numerals, there's nothing funky going on in that way.

Quote
in other words, neither of the toothpicks in the "equals" sign are the ones that will be moved, and we won't be changing it either. focus on the other 5

Yes.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 14, 2005, 04:41:11 PM
also since you can not have crooked numbers so that makes me think that the \ / can not be changed either....unless you can make a value with / or \...I was thinking having something divided like 1/1 = 11, but that doesn't work.  I want to figure this out because I got a riddle / logic problem to post   :(
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 05:00:21 PM
Sorry, just re read the instructions.  Have to be equal.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 14, 2005, 05:02:34 PM
Yeah, moving one of the toothpicks in the \/ just isn't going to work, because 1/1 is probably the only thing that makes sense from moving one of those toothpicks, and that means you can't make a change to to the 11 on the other side of the equation.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 05:02:45 PM
Legion, I had the same thought with the /...

You could put a toothpick on the II and make the pi sign.

Not that that would do anything, but you could do it.  :)
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 05:05:00 PM
V = H

H meaning 5 in the swangalian dialect of the hundu atu.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 14, 2005, 05:08:32 PM
Quote
H meaning 5 in the swangalian dialect of the hundu atu.


Yep, that's exactly right.

Oh, wait. No it isn't.  It's completely and utterly wrong.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 05:11:39 PM
Can we put a leaning toothpick up against a straght one, to make a sort of crooked V?  Or is that down the wrong path?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 14, 2005, 05:19:35 PM
remeber they have to be the same numerical system...and as for making another V I do not see how that would help.....because you would have
V = V I  or  V V = 1..

neither I see as helpful, unless I am missing something, which is quite easy for me to do.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 05:20:22 PM
I got it...  The square root of 1 = 1  

You take the 1 from the right side, and put it over the 1 on the left side.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 14, 2005, 05:21:40 PM
what about the V infront of the 1 on the left side?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 05:22:50 PM
The V is part of the 'square root' sign.

If that is correct, Legion, I'd like to hear your riddle/puzzle.  You can take my turn, again, assuming I'm correct.  Or just throw it out.  We can work on two at a time.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Eric James Stone on September 14, 2005, 05:25:46 PM

 _
\/| = |


That is correct.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 14, 2005, 05:27:08 PM
OK if no one minds tomorrow morning I will post mine, want to make sure I work it out right.  I kind of made it up, but got the idea from watching TV.  So I will post it early tomorrow once I have gone through it to make sure it works the way I want it to.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 14, 2005, 06:56:02 PM
OK I think I can post my riddle now...I hopefully worked out anything that might have been wrong with it but we will see....Since most of you are fantasy adventurers I will tailor it to you guys.....

You and your party are found in the dungeon and need to proceed through this locked door.  The door can only be opened when you figure out the riddle.  Inscribed on the door is the following passage

"This door will only open under the correct weight." Under this passage you see that 41.5 kilograms in written in the door also.  Next to the door is a platform, that you assume is the scale, 3 jugs, and a small pound.  Your party has already figured out that 1 gallon of water is equal to 2.5 kilograms, and that each jar weighs the same (500 grams), but holds different amounts of water.  Jar A can only hold 10 gallons, Jar B can only hold 5, and Jar C can only hold 3 gallons of water.  You must figure out how to get exactly 41.5 kilograms on the scale with using the water and the jars.  Good Luck.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 07:23:42 PM
Dwarfs weigh exactly 41.5 pounds, so we make the dwarf strip down and sit on the scale.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Firemeboy on September 14, 2005, 07:27:57 PM
Fill up C and pour it into B.
Fill up C
Fill up A

C = 7.5
B = 7.5
A = 25
Jars = 1.5

Total = 41.5
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Tage on September 14, 2005, 07:44:33 PM
Here's a riddle:

What thread is getting locked before it hits 35 pages?
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 15, 2005, 09:05:23 AM
I'm countermanding that, because I think it's dumb to lock a thread in the middle of a riddle. Next riddle goes on another thread, folks.

so, legion a) is he right, b) why are you mixing measurement systems? kg is metric, gallons are english.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Legion on September 15, 2005, 09:22:34 AM
Yeah that works too.  I had a more complecated way of doing it.  Should have looked for easier ways of figuring out.  I was using grams to make the number higher, and forgot to chance the gallons to liters....sorry
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: Tage on September 15, 2005, 01:07:23 PM
Uh, did I miss something or did FMB have an answer right before I locked it? I did NOT lock it in the middle of a riddle, I checked to make sure.
Title: Re: Riddles
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on September 15, 2005, 02:18:26 PM
unconfirmed answers are like no answers