ugg..

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I like your random assignment of nations to fantasy cultures. It amuses me.

[Entsuropi]

Random...? Tolkien based middle earth on europe.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

sort of, yes. It's a gross over simplification to uniformly assign a European culture to most of the cultures in Tolkien. And if some of your assignments aren't as accurate even if you can. For example, the Hobbits are the gentlemen English farmers. There's your Britain -- short, insular people with hairy feet.

[Entsuropi]

I did not mention cultures, only physical locations. You were talking about distances, so i put them into perspective. Down boy!

And might i point out that the hobbits may be englsih farmers, but i am not. The dwarves are the scots So... if you are a dwarf and dwarves are scots, you are scottish. Which i find disturbing.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I dont' think you could fairly assign dwarfs to Scots.
And don't think I don't find it disturbing that you think I'm a Scot.

[Entsuropi]

I dont' think you could fairly assign dwarfs to Scots.

Why not? Scots have clans, are traditional, hold grudges,  are warlike (the highlander regiments were the vanguard of the redcoats during the 7 years war), have connections to mountains (loadsa hills) and go in for beards. And, of course, if the English are Elves (traditional, sea farers, interest in royalty/bloodlines etc) then that makes (historical) sense. Two races fighting etc.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Warning!Warning!someone has thought way too much about a work of fiction

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

1) there is rarely such a thing as "thinking too much"
2) I think the problem is thinking not enough. There are too many other aspects of Tolkien dwarves, and most of this is just superficial. Same for the elves, who are not imperial like the English and prefer to stay out of affairs. Also their linguistic/folklore traditions vary widely from tradition British Isles mythology and language. It's nice enough for a very brief comparison, but doesn't hold up when you "think too much."

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

It was a joke Eric, a joke.

Tolkien dwarves? Everyone knows they're German anyways.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

it's one of those things I don't allow jokes about. I hear it too much as a derisive comment. Remember, when you talk about analyzing literature, you're talking about what I *DO*. With Entropy it's one thing, he doesn't even WANT me to respect his opinion when it comes to how literary studies. But you're different. I do respect your academic opinion, so it annoys me when you say something so blatantly ignorant.

[EUOL]

Ouch.  That's a little over the top, SE.  

Anyway, I'm going to have to go with the Dwarves being Scots--if only because that's the way everyone generally interprets them.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Like I said, it's one of my pet peeves. It angers me to no end when someone tells me I'm "over analyzing" when I explain the Apollonian/Dionysian worship trends manifesting in a movie like "Joe Versus the Volcano" and the bearing that has on the love/hero dichotomy played out in the film.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

ehh, well deal, I was insulting the scot and not you.

And I say German, they have a love of fine craftsmanship (especially weapons) they covet lots of things and are willing to make war to get them. They have prejudices against just about everyone. Oh and they dont have sheep.

Oh and they tend to start their wars strong and then lose them.

[Entsuropi]

ehh, well deal, I was insulting the scot and not you.

And I say German, they have a love of fine craftsmanship (especially weapons) they covet lots of things and are willing to make war to get them. They have prejudices against just about everyone. Oh and they dont have sheep.

Oh and they tend to start their wars strong and then lose them.

Er...? Since when did tolkien actually describe the dwarves losing a war? The war against the misty mountain goblins was won y'know.

The scots have predujuces, believe me. We are apparently the most rascist country in europe.

[Lieutenant Kije]

To my knowledge Tolkien had no intentions at allegory whatsoever.  Sure, some similarities exist between history and Tolkien's story, but as far as analogies go, I'll take JRR's word for it:

[The Lord of the Ring's] sources are things long before in mind, and little or nothing in it was modified by the war that began in 1939 or its sequels.  The real war does not resemble the legendary war in its process or in its conclusion...Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes and views of those who like allegory or topical reference.  But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence.  I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers.  I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.

 etc. etc.

J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring, Foreward to the Second Edition.