Vin as HOA?

[Comatose]

I would still think that Preservation is mostly if not entirely free. The reasoning for this is where in the Hero of Ages prologue it states that . . .


Quote
. . . something kept it from affecting the world too much by itself. An opposition. A force that lay over the land like a shield.

When this was observed, Ruin was freed upon the land, leading me to believe that it would take a freed Preservation to put up this much resistance to it. Also the case where the mists sometimes kill people and sometimes just shakes them up leads me to believe that Ruin and Preservation are both free and competing for the lives of those people. Ruin just has slightly more power at the moment, because he gained the power of the Well of Ascension.

That's just it, if they were both free, they would be equal.  Since Ruin is so powerful, Preservation must be trapped or limited somehow. Ruin could do pretty amazing things (the deepness, controlling the inquisitors, changing the rubbing).  I think Preservation is using all the power it can muster, but it doesn't have all it's power because it was trapped.  Preservation has to be trapped, otherwise Ruin's power wouldn't be limited, it would be equaled, and contested.  I'm thinking the Lord Ruler channelled Preservation into himself somehow at the well of ascension, and when Vin stabbed him THROUGH THE HEART with a SPEAR Preservation transfered to her.  The Lord Ruler was actiovely channeling the Preservation inside him, thus Preservation was practically free, and thus more powerful than the still trapped Ruin, but Vin is unaware, and since she took Preservation into herself, it is trapped, and limited in what it can do.  Ruin remembers from his time that Preservation was in a feruchemist, so he hunts them, trying to make them into inquisitors and absorb Preservation's power, but, Preservation isn't in a feruchemist anymore, it's in Vin.  That's my theory, I hope it clarifies some things that keep coming up again and again.

[Andrew the Great]

Makes sense, I guess, but is a little overly complicated for my tastes.

If we're going to follow along with it, however, you're saying then, that preservation is PARTIALLY trapped. If preservation were completely trapped, Ruin would have free reign, which it doesn't, and the part about them being equal if both were free makes sense. So, I think that preservation is mostly free, but not entirely.

And I'm sorry, but I don't think it makes sense for preservation to have been transferred to Vin or even to have been in the Lord Ruler in the first place. You would think Vin would know by now if she had the one force preventing Ruin from taking over the world trapped inside her. She might even do something stupid like kill herself to release it. I think your theory has some valid points to it, Coma, but overall doesn't really make sense.

So now that the first and last lines there contradict each other...

[Peter Ahlstrom]

That's just it, if they were both free, they would be equal.  Since Ruin is so powerful, Preservation must be trapped or limited somehow.

Mmmm. There's another option you're not considering.

(Oh yeah, that's right—you're not reading my posts.)

[Andrew the Great]

Care to give a pointer to said post, or do I have to go digging through the first 20 threads hoping to find something promising before giving up with a sort of dejected sullenness?

[Czanos]

Andrew, I think Ookla was talking about Comatose's post in the Reen's Obsidian thread, where Coma said he wasn't reading anymore of Ookla's posts.

And who says the two forces are of equal power at any given moment? Perhaps Preservation is just tired or something. (I only say tired because it seems odd to me that Alendi, Rashek, and Vin all have a line similar to, "I am so very tired." somewhere in the books, not because I'm convinced a force like Preservation could even be tired.)

Perhaps as was mentioned before, the state of the world determines which of the two powers is stronger at the moment. If there's more chaos, Ruin is stronger, more stability, Preservation.

Or perhaps It's just a matter of the forces using up their power. (Burning it away, perhaps?) Preservation seems to have been active for at least a thousand years, trying to keep the world from progressing, while Ruin was just freed from his prison. Perhaps Ruin with his newly acquired power from the Well of Ascension is just simply stronger than Preservation at the moment.

[Andrew the Great]

Thanks for the clarification. I must have missed that one.

And that sounds about like my theory that the state of the world is reflected in whichever is more free, and they constantly fight to force each other further into some sort of captivity while simultaneously trying to free themselves.

[Chaos]

That's just it, if they were both free, they would be equal.  Since Ruin is so powerful, Preservation must be trapped or limited somehow.

Mmmm. There's another option you're not considering.

(Oh yeah, that's right—you're not reading my posts.)

I think what Ookla is getting at here is that we do not know anything for certain about Preservation's true nature. He never confirmed that the mist spirit was Preservation or anything else.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

I really doubt anyone will get it, even though it's staring everyone in the face. I didn't get it myself even after reading book three.

[Chaos]

I really doubt anyone will get it, even though it's staring everyone in the face. I didn't get it myself even after reading book three.

Oh, now, that's just cruel, telling us it's staring right in front of our faces.

[darxbane]

No, what is cruel is that, even if one of us gets it right, we won't know it until October.  Even worse, there will be many people (myself included) who will scrutinize said theory into obscurity.  I can't even choose a direction for a theory right now. 

[Pink Bunkadoo]

I really doubt anyone will get it, even though it's staring everyone in the face. I didn't get it myself even after reading book three.

Errr... so when did you get it?

[Andrew the Great]

I know what you mean. Right now my mind is going in every possible direction.

"Ruin has more support, Preservation doesn't know as much as ruin, RUIN IS PRESERVATION!!!"

Yeah, I need sleep. And I just woke up like an hour and a half ago...

[SarahG]

Errr... so when did you get it?

He probably had to have EUOL himself explain it, which is NOT a good sign for the rest of us!

[darxbane]

Isn't it possible that Ruin and Preservation are now equal, and Ruin is trying to tip the balance in its own favor?  It still can't touch the world directly.  It may have absolute influence over the Inquisitors, but there is still a force keeping It at bay. Ruin is not yet as powerful as we believe, I think.

[Andrew the Great]

I would say that it is possible.

I would also say that's it's possibly they are generally equal, and the number of minions and their strength that each has is what  determines who is stronger. Most people aren't really fighting for preservation, persay, while a good number are for Ruin...