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Messages - Shadowkiller

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31
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Splitting A Memory of Light...
« on: November 07, 2008, 05:12:40 PM »
When he came to Denver CO for a book signing, the group of us asked him about it.   He said he didn't have the same pull RJ did and that RJ had always said that if he needed to, he would get TOR to make a new binding to accommodate the book, but BS didn't believe for a minute that he could get that out of them.   He said the most he might be able to do would be to get them to release both books at the same time and he planned to try.

32
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« on: November 07, 2008, 01:10:08 AM »
Quote from: EUOL on October 16, 2008, 07:07:58 AM
Quote from: happyman on October 15, 2008, 09:31:47 PM
Quote
3)  The last two metals are Chromium and Nicrosil.  We'll reveal what they do on the Allomancy poster.  Suffice it to say that in the next trilogy, the main protagonist would be a Nicrosil Misting.  And, to make a Robert Jordan-type comment, what those two metals do should become obvious to the serious student of Allomancy...  (It has to do with the nature of the metal groupings.)

If I read the poster correctly, and have the correlations down, these metals are the external enhancement metals.

The simplest idea is that they do to another person what Aluminum and Duralumin do to the Allomancer burning them.  If this is true, then Chromium would destroy another Allomancer's metals (useful skill, that, especially in a group of Mistings fighting a Mistborn) while Nicrosil would cause the target's metals that are currently burning to be burned in a brief, intense flash.  This could be used either to enhance a group of Mistings or to seriously mess up an enemy Allomancer.

Nicely done.

Ookla is right, the others don't have 1/1 correlations.  But I liked this concept far too much not to use it.  

In a future book series, Mistborn will also have become things of legend.  The bloodlines will have become diluted to the point that there are no Mistborn, only Mistings--however, the latter are far more common.   In this environment, a Nicrosil Misting could be invaluable both as an enhancer to your own team or a weapon to use against unsuspecting other Misthings.

This is essentially where it is said.   Now some of us don't buy it for several reasons.   It doesn't have a 1/1 correlation as BS said and yet he also said serious students of allomancy could figure it out which means he might be misleading us or we may be interpreting what he said incorrectly.      It really doesn't fit with the others.   *shrug*

Both AvalonCreamCorn and I agree on it.

33
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« on: November 04, 2008, 11:31:20 PM »
Quote from: Czanos on November 04, 2008, 11:18:11 PM
But copper and bronze don't have anything to do with metals. They deal with ripples in the fabric of creation, which are caused when someone taps into the powers of a Shard. This is shown because the mist spirit, who didn't have any metals, gave off a distinct "Allomantic" pulse. 
It sounds like you're trying to say that just because Ice is completely unlike Steam means it isn't made of the same stuff.   Metal is made of the power of the Shard, so is the Mist Spirit.   Just cause they look, feel and seem different doesn't mean they aren't made of the same stuff in the end.
Its pretty much stated that all metals are made of power.   This is expressed by the fact that none of the so called gods can read anything on any metal because it shines with power and by the fact that the mist spirit gave off the Allomantic pulse as you state.   My point is that without metal outside of itself, copper and bronze do nothing.   My argument has nothing to do with the ripples, nor does it preclude the ripples, just the fact that there is metal involved in the process at some point that doesn't include the copper or bronze being burned is all I'm referencing.

34
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« on: November 04, 2008, 10:43:21 PM »
Quote from: Arionhawk on November 04, 2008, 10:30:17 PM
Ah, but does it affect the metals, that is the question, it is equally logical that it is affecting the person.  Because remember it is the person who is actually burning the metals in the first place, so then what Duralumin does can just as easily said to be increasing the bodies ability to burn metal at an exponential rate, and that Aluminum allows the body to instantly purge the metals.  Whose to say that Iron and Steel do not in fact give the body the ability to manipulate the metals.  It is my personal theory that the metals when burned do nothing but affect the burners body, so that he has access to small shards of the power of Adonalsium.  And I can be completely wrong here, as either explanation seems completely reasonable to me.

What I'm really trying to say is not that it effects metals directly but rather that the effects involve metals.   Without metals, there is no effect.   Without metal, Iron and Steel are useless.   Without an another allomancer burning metal, Bronze and Copper are useless.   Without the allomancer having injested metal, Duralumin and Aluminum are useless.   They are all useless without metal outside of the metal being burned.   There is nothing in there saying how they effect or change the allomancer burning them, just that their effects involve metals whereas the others do not.

35
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« on: November 04, 2008, 09:49:00 PM »
#1: I like where you're going Avalon.   I'm going to vote Platinum for now as that is the one I see the biggest pattern with.   I explained the pattern on my wiki which I linked just above you.

#2:Czanos, that entire table is pretty much located on my website at the link I posted.   It can be edited by anyone who wishes to add anything they see to it.

#3:In reference to your discrepancy, Czanos, they do not effect the Allomancer, they effect and are effected by the metals the Allomancers are using.   If the Allomancer is not burning any metal, Bronze detects nothing.   If the Allomancer is not burning anything, there is no need for a Copper cloud as it protects nothing.   Aluminum doesn't effect the Allomancer at all, just burns off all the metals.   Duralumin, if the Allomancer is not burning any metals, does nothing and only effects the metals the Allomancer IS burning.   Its my opinion that all these cases are very specific to one thing and that is metal.   In both of these groups its allomantic metals, but they are metals none-the-less.   With Iron and Steel, its not necessarily allomantic metals, but it is still metals.   All the other abilities do not involve metals at all.   They don't involve allomancers, they don't involve allomancers metal, they don't involve any metal.   They involve people and very specifically people, whether it be the allomancer themselves or others who may not be allomancers.   That is why I say metal vs people.

36
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« on: November 04, 2008, 08:13:32 PM »
Quote from: AvalonDreamer on November 04, 2008, 08:11:00 PM
What about Platnium, Mercury, or... Has anyone bothered looking at the periodic table and trying to find a relationship with the base metals on it?
In the process of putting together the table.   Preliminary results show little relationship on the table itself.
http://burntoutcomic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Metals

37
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« on: November 04, 2008, 08:34:47 AM »
Quote from: Mok Apple Pie on November 04, 2008, 06:53:51 AM
Shadowkiller, that analysis of the metals is not the way the characters in the book understand them, and while Brandon has said that the characters are getting some things wrong in their classification system, he hasn't given any indication that your analysis is correct. There are also inconsistencies in your analysis. Internal metals: Tin, Pewter, Copper, Bronze, Gold, Electrum, Aluminum, Duralumin. Those are all on the inside of the circle, yet half of them are what you say effect metals and half aren't. If you're suggesting that the metal-effectors alternate between inside and outside the circle—well, the order of the metal quadrants around the circle is arbitrary as far as I could tell.
He hasn't even seen my classification as far as I can tell as he hasn't been around in quite a while(at least not posted on this topic).   I fully believe that the analysis in the book and on the poster is directly related to what the characters see and that they in fact DO have it wrong.   I think Brandon is misleading us by giving us what the characters see and not his true classification system.   I may be totally wrong, I admit, but Brandon challenged us to figure it out ourselves and I think we've got it wrong too.   I want to entirely reclassify the whole list.

I don't like the classification Internal and External.   If you're talking in relation to the circle, that's fine, but if you're talking about effects, that's another descriptor that Brandon gave us in book 1 that I believe is misleading.   For instance, its my opinion that all the mental metals are external.   Zinc and Brass are obvious but Copper and Bronze are less so.   With Bronze you sense other peoples pulses.   I can't remember offhand if you can sense your own.   With Copper, you may cloud yourself, but you also cloud everyone around you.   If you think about it, you just happen to be in the cloud cause it is centered on you but it is entirely external to you.   Tin and Pewter are very much internal metals as they both effect you and only you.   Aluminum and Duralumin are also very much internal as they also effect you and only you... and your metals.

I think the entire chart is wrong and its done purposefully.   Maybe I'm reading more into what Brandon is doing than he intended, but its fun so I'm gonna keep doing it till he comes here and sets me down himself :).

38
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Brandon Sanderson Wiki
« on: November 04, 2008, 08:20:03 AM »
Believe me, the work you've done is great so far.   I've been keeping an eye on things.  Maybe it will encourage other people to take part.

39
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« on: November 04, 2008, 02:44:00 AM »
Quote from: Mellington of the raving ferret army on November 04, 2008, 02:03:54 AM
You and I probably have nearly identical charts and theories about the REAL second set of temporal  metals somewhere on our computers SK - Mine is in Google docs if you want me to share.  Looks like you're putting up yours on your wiki though so I can just throw in anything you missed if you like.
Absolutely!   Feel free to fill in before I get there too, I'm always behind :).

40
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« on: November 03, 2008, 09:37:50 PM »
Quote from: AvalonDreamer on November 03, 2008, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: miyabi on November 03, 2008, 08:23:03 PM
How could it not fit within that?  You say it needs to affect the people.  It's their body that is burning the metal.  So it's affecting how their body interacts with the metals not necessarily affecting the metals themselves. ;)

If that's the justification, then Aluminum and Duralumin effect the user's body, not their metals.

I could see Chromium suppressing metal usage, but probably not outright burning off metals. Still a bit lost on Nicrosil...
Yeah exactly.   In that example, they both effect metals in the same way.   Look at the Mental group.   One pair effects people's emotions, the other detects and protects people using metals.   The one has nothing to do with metal at all, but the other effects both the people and the metal together.   That is exactly how the Enhancement group should work.   One effects the people and the metal together, the other should not effect metal at all.   I could see Chromium and Nicrosil effecting other people in the same way Tin and Pewter effect oneself.   That would at least follow the pattern.   That is also unlikely though as no other metals mimic the abilities of another group.   In any case, I continue my efforts to not only redefine what the metals do but to also to find the last two metals(in place of atium and malatium) and determine what the last four metals do/are supposed to do according to the patterns and not according to Brandon's misdirection(The tables at the back of the book are misdirecting us IMO).

41
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« on: November 03, 2008, 08:17:43 PM »
Of course his next line in that is:
Quote
Ookla is right, the others don't have 1/1 correlations.  But I liked this concept far too much not to use it.

In other words, it doesn't fit the pattern.   When I originally read this, I took it to mean that he liked what happyman said so much that he couldn't not use it.   To me it meant that it wasn't what he originally intended it to do which is why I fight on to find the original intention as this idea doesn't fit.

If its true that this is how BS intended it to work, I will be very disappointed because I was very excited about patterns and the idea of unknowns that we had to guess and if he won't even follow his own patterns then there is no reason for the scientists of us out there to even try.

To me, this isn't the obvious result to a serious allomancy student as BS indicates.   There is no correlation to Internal vs External within the groupings.   For instance, Brass, Zinc, Copper and Bronze are all technically external to the allomancer.   Tin, Pewter are Internal, and Iron and Steel are External.   Whether or not BS confirmed it, it doesn't fit the patterns.

If BS is going to say something like:
Quote
what those two metals do should become obvious to the serious student of Allomancy...
Then it is my opinion that his system should follow the pattern and maintain the 1/1 correlation.

I will keep searching for the real intended use that does follow the pattern and fight against this.

42
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« on: November 03, 2008, 04:37:04 PM »
Quote from: miyabi on November 02, 2008, 10:24:55 PM
Yes, one of them will allow you to burn away all of someone else's metals while the other allows you to make someone else have a similar effect to burning Duralumin.
That doesn't follow the patterns of the other metals.   If you notice the way metals work, one pair effects people, the other pair effects metals.   For instance, Tin and Pewter effect people, Iron and Steel effect metal.   Brass and Zinc effect people, Copper and Bronze effect metal.   Gold and Electrum effect people, I'm of the opinion that Atium and Malatium don't belong on this table for many reasons, one of which is because they also effect people and not metal.   Aluminum and Duralumin effect metal, the other pair should effect people directly.   You'll notice that also tin and pewter are on the inside of the circle and effect people, brass and zinc are on the outside, gold and electrum are on the inside, chromium and nicrosil are on the outside.   This table is very organized and follows many patterns.   What you claim does not follow the patterns.

43
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« on: November 02, 2008, 12:14:16 AM »
That's why I asked for the Allomancer's Alloy percentages.   On wikipedia, Pewter is listed as between 85 and 99 percent tin with the remainder lead.   Steel is not listed as exact percentages at all not to mention there are like a dozen different types of steel like stainless which contains Chromium or carbon which contains, SURPISE!, carbon!   I'm looking to see if BS will give us exact numbers. :)

44
Brandon Sanderson / Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« on: November 01, 2008, 09:03:16 PM »
I was working on my Metals table last night and I was wondering what are the exact percentages for each Allomantic Alloy.   We know Allomancer's Pewter is 91% Tin and 9% Lead so I was wondering what the others were.

45
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Brandon Sanderson Wiki
« on: November 01, 2008, 07:48:24 AM »
Wonderful, I see you already made some additions.   Thank you.   I also welcome help with the metals.   I'll hopefully do some work on them tomorrow.

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