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Fallen Fantasist

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fireflyz:
I haven't read the articles posted, but as it seems the original author didn't read, I don't suppose it matters.  Right?  Haha, I'll read them if I have the chance and post later.  I did want to say that I think that his premise is absurd.  I mean Joe Abercrombie's gimmick pitch (I don't mean this in a derogatory way) was that in many ways his protagonists were the antiheroes to normal fantasy.  If it was that common then it wouldn't have been a gimmick.

I think that whenever a certain style is dominating you will always have reactions to that.  And that's fine.  I think Abercrobmie is a good writer.  His prose is very nice.  I don't particularly like his stories that much.  It's not because his characters aren't shining good guys.  I like my fiction to leave me feeling that I've learned something, grown somehow, or generally just come out the other side enriched for having read the work.  Abercrombie is good fun and entertainment, but I've never felt a burning desire to reread his works, gleaning new nuances with every read.  (For the record, I've read all of his works save for Heroes).


Ultimately, anyone who puts out an article using rash generalizations is bound to be failures.  Have we gotten away from Tolkien's mass hordes of wholly evil beings that can be killed indiscriminately without compassion?  I think we have for the most part.  More stories feature characters with shades of grey or at least some humanity imbued into the villian.   Is that Nihilism?  I don't think so.

Just my two cents...

daranthered:
I don't think Grim's article should be taken entirely seriously.  Anyone who lumps Tolkien and Howard together obviously isn't too well acquainted with the finer (or even general) points of fantasy literature.  It's the responses it's getting which I find interesting.

The Black Gate put up am article  (link below) which gives a list of all the authors which have commented (for, against and neutral) on the issue.   It's pretty informative to see where authors see themselves on the spectrum of "traditional" to "real." 

http://www.blackgate.com/2011/02/20/the-decline-and-fall-of-bankrupt-nihilism/

I think the argument itself is pretty much a non sequitur.   The whole thing is subjective.  A matter of personal taste.  Grim's statement that these types of stories dominate fantasy is not supported by the evidence.

dhalagirl:
I have to agree with all of you.  This guy has no idea what he's talking about and he's overreacting.  Western civilization isn't going to collapse because of a few fantasy sub-genres.  Grim needs to grow a pair.

maxonennis:

--- Quote from: dhalagirl on February 23, 2011, 05:10:56 PM ---I have to agree with all of you.  This guy has no idea what he's talking about and he's overreacting.  Western civilization isn't going to collapse because of a few fantasy sub-genres.  Grim needs to grow a pair.

--- End quote ---

I wouldn’t have a problem with the article if it were only an account of his dislike of darker fantasy novels. If someone doesn’t like that subgenre (which started with Robert A. Howard), that’s perfectly fine, but from his article he goes on a rant against any mildly successful fantasy novel sold in the last twenty years. If you don’t like fantasy, that’s fine also, but saying that you love the genre and then trying to denounce the whole genre is cheap ‘journalism’.

If the writer of the article had actually said what he meant instead of pretending not to say what he did, than I wouldn’t have had a problem with it. . . . If that makes sense.

dhalagirl:
It makes sense.

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